LED Panel Dimming help please.

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vestureofblood
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LED Panel Dimming help please.

Hi all

I would like to use a set of these type panels.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GEYU0O6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=...

I need to individually dim each one. Is there an alternative to the $35 each 0-10V LED dimmer switches that are recommenced?

I mean is this dimmer just a Pot or a PWM or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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cera@1967
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 Hi VofB ,

 

Unfortunately , there are no other easy method to dim the panels ! This is the standard way to do it ! Home made PWM drivers are no easy task , time and lots of money consuming ...

I've got 2 of these panels (36W) , and I'd tried almost everything to avoid an expensive 0-10V dimer .., but nothing worked !

Basically , the panel is coming with his own constant current source , ( in my case , a 18-36W , 36-72 V , at 0.5 A ). In fact is a driver for leds ,with no PMW..!

The 0-10V dimer is a PWM driver , where the PWM is controlled by the voltage ( 0-10V). So , no PWM , no diming...

I know that is not what you want to hear , but this is the most elegant solution.., the price is somehow high , but think if you want to "fry" 2 panels that cost you 250$ , because spending another 60$ for dimmers looks ridiculous high...!

My suggestion is to go on this known path (installing these dimmers ) , to avoid an expensive loss...

Best regards !

Adrian

cera@1967
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 On a second , more carefully look to the panels you've got , I noticed that your's drivers are different from mine , and they has the "0-10V input " ( mine doesn't have this !...) , so , please look to the link  , and try to use the solution with the potentiometer , you could have a chance ! Do not worry , if is not working , nothing else will happen ... Keep us posted...

   DIMMER-NOTE.pdf

Adrian

vestureofblood
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Thanks cera. Can I get your opinion on this switch as well? Do you think it will work?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076HPM8A?ref_=pe_623860_70668520_dpLink&th=1

I don’t see any 0-10v on this switch, but for 14 bucks I thought it might be worth a look too.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

Lightbringer
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Sounds eerily similar to 4-20mA controllers, only using a 0V-10V voltage to control it, vs 4mA-20mA current.

If you got one already, you can try it out with a 9V battery and 100Ω potentiometer. It’ll only reach 90% brightness, of course, but you’ll know instantly if it’ll work.

If it works, use a meter and see how much current the the bugger draws at its input pin. If the current’s small, then you can make it battery-powered. If 90% brightness is okay with you, then a 9V battery will work. Otherwise, 12V and 3 diodes in series will drop that to ~10V.

It’s not as simple as a single pot, but it’s not much more’n that.

No idea if these dimmers are built into the wall like regular on/off / dimmer switches, or if you want something external.

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cera@1967
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 You're right Lightbringer ,

it is similar with 4-20mA industrial process loops controllers in analog systems , and along with the 0-10v controllers they are the standard process controls .The difference is that with 4-20mA is far more complicated to control PWM than with 0-10V , where by , just injecting on the inverting input of an comparator the 0-10V signal ( and having on the non inverting input the tooth saw signal from the oscillator ) , you can vary the PWM , at the output...

The idea with the 9V battery is good , and could be the second option if the one with the simple potentiometer does not work ! In fact ,is brilliant !

 

 @ VofB :about the switch from your link...

As you know there are on the market led bulbs that are dimmable and some non dimmable.., I didn't have the chance , yet (!) , to open a dimmable one and see what is the solution for doing this , is a challenge I'm willing to accept as soon as I'll have one of those in my hand...

In the description of the product , the manufacturer are stating that is suitable for led and incandescent bulb !!!

If , for incandescent is easy to do it ( a triac , a diac and few more components...) , for led drivers are much more complicated , because of the following :

 For incandescent loads the form of the wave is not critical  , they will accept a square wave form with no problem and the armonics , created by the triac's switching ,will not affect the load ( bulb) .., except maybe , a small flickering at the lowest level...

For led bulbs with standard drives ( drivers acting like a switching power supply ) the wave form is mandatory sinusoidal , due to the diode bridge rectifier at their input.., so , using that kind of dimmer is not acceptable !

Also , I have to highlight the fact that , in the last years,  the manufacturers managed to make dc-ac invertors with pure sinusoidal wave form.., so is possible , with proper miniaturization to obtain  dimmers suitable for led dimming..!!!

I've tried to get a schematic diagram of those but , they protect the intellectual property ( for a good reason , I guess...). What I can assume is that at the price of ~ 14 $ , these dimmers suppose to be fitted for led dimming , as your panels appear to be. I do think that the 14$ dimmers will work ( if the first solution with the potentiometer , that is also the cheapest , would fail...)

Good luck , and tell us the story...

Adrian

pedasunu_ave
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it seems the dimmer unit is very specific to the luminaries themselves.

DavidEF
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Are you sure you want those particular panels? It doesn’t seem that they are very efficient:

Quote:
HIGH EFFICIENCY – Each 2 × 2 FT LED troffer panel light pushes the limits of standard light output in order to provide exceedingly optimal lighting with 5100 lumens, equivalent to 113 W/lm of high end efficiency.

At 113 watts per lumen, it would take 576,300 watts to use just ONE of these! Shocked

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DavidEF
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Seriously, though: I don’t think that switch will work VOB. It is a 120V switch. Your panel needs that 0-10V input. A potentiometer is probably going to work, but you really might be better off going for the elegant, yet more expensive, solution provided by the manufacturer.

If you’re interested, I have some (I think 0-12V) led dimmers that may work for you. IIRC, the power source was a separate component, so the dimmers themselves will probably work with a 10V source (which you’d supply) for effective 0-10V dimming. They have a potentiometer control, but also supporting electronics inside. So, they are a bit more elegant than just a pot control. They are made to be external, with cabled connections, not made to be installed in wall switch boxes. I can dig them out and see what the actual specs are if you want. I’m not using them. They were left over from a customer.

Edit: Oh, the reason that 120V switch won’t work is because of the dimming. Obviously, if all you were doing is switching on/off, a 120V switch would work fine between a 10V power source and 10V rated light panels. But, the 120V dimmer needs the 120V input, which your light panels wouldn’t survive.

Edit 2: Looking again, the light panels can be installed with 120V input. The 0-10V input is for dimmer operation. So, it is probably a bypass around the internal step-down circuit, which itself is possibly not dimmable.

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vestureofblood
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Just now I ordered 2 panels and a pair of the 36.00 switches. We’ll see how it goes.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

DavidEF
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Let us know how it goes. I am interested in how it actually works. Also would like to know how well it works for you.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand