Paypal changes flat fee to enormous value

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kiriba-ru
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Paypal changes flat fee to enormous value

Ive got an e-mail from paypal that showed policy updates. Actually, page showed how much fees will PP withhold when Im sending money abroad. I knew that some PP fees in Russia were caused by sh#thole law (according to it such international money transfer companies have to reserve 100x turnover amount in domestic bank), but I checked how will it work in different countries:
USA: (Effective Date: April 19, 2018) $2.99 or $4.99 per transaction depending on the recipient’s country + 2.9% of the transaction amount.
Germany: (Effective Date: May 25, 2018)
EUR 1.99 or EUR 3.99 per transaction depending on the recipient’s country + 1.9% of the transaction amount.
Australia: (Effective date: 5 April 2018)
$5.99 AUD flat fee, a 2.6% + fixed fee will apply, but the 2.6% will only apply to the portion of the payment for which you used the credit card or debit card.
UK: (Effective Date: May 25, 2018)
GBP 1.99 or GBP 3.99 per transaction depending on the recipient’s country + 3.4% of the transaction amount.
etc.
Smaller fixed fee (first number) works for (right for UK, may be different for other countries):
US, Canada, Aland Islands, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Belgium, Channel Islands, Cyprus, Estonia, France (including French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Reunion and Mayotte), Germany , Gibraltar, Greece, Ireland, Isle of Man, Italy , Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, Portugal, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, United Kingdom, Vatican City State, Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Georgia, Hungary, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Serbia, Switzerland, Ukraine.

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ChibiM
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Are there any good alternatives?

sb56637
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Ouch! Thanks for the heads-up. Do they have different charges based on the country of the account? I haven’t received any notification emails from them recently.

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FPV
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got the email last night and didn’t read it! thought it just adds useless stuff but that is really, really bad. I have assets in multiple countries and move PP funds all the time.

sb56637
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Would this include even transferring to/from PayPal and the owner’s linked bank account?

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FPV
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https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
This link is the policy update page; please note: the content, language and relevant information changes depending on the IP/country/account you are using.

According to the new “simplified” formula the 1.9% fee applies when you are not pulling funds from existing paypal credit or a linked bank account. (so, a credit card i.e.)

pennzy
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Just noticed I can’t reply with quote to OP .

Spiderlight
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“Germany: (Effective Date: May 25, 2018)” is exactly the date when the EU-GDPR is enforceable. Must be a coincidence. Wink

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So, Are they are charging a fee to get the money out of paypal and into your bank account? or the fee is for every transaction, Like when you buy something online?

kiriba-ru
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AlexGT wrote:
So, Are they are charging a fee to get the money out of paypal and into your bank account? or the fee is for every transaction, Like when you buy something online?

Listed information is right when one personal acc paypal owner sends money to another personal acc paypal owner abroad using pay for goods option (private ebay seller etc.).
Problem is that seller dont know fee amount (it depends where the buyer from) so probably most tiny shops will have to encrease their prices by bigger flat rate (or have individual listings for different countries).
Example:
I have one ebay listing with item that costs $12 for buyer (shipping included). Ebay fees are 11.8%, if paypal fees will be ~$5 and 3% – it will left near $5.8 for me which is slighly less than shipping cost (or -$0.2 for each sold item in my pocket).

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FPV
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AFAIK this is only for cross-border payments. So basically sending/receiving from Asia, outside of your country, or the zone you are in (basically the way PP looks at the world is with “zones” or economic markets where fees or regulatory/compliance requirements are bundled and priced).

It will, as an example, have an impact if you’d order from kiriba-ru!

AlexGT
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Ok, so buying anything from China for example (GearBest, Fasttech, Etc) from the USA would incur in a $2.99 to $4.99 fee + 2.9% of the cost of the item?

So lets say a $5.00 item from Gearbest would now be in the best case scenario $5 + $2.99 + $0.15 = $8.14, and worst case $10.14 am I understanding this correctly?

Paypal just killed online global trading! Better get your orders in before the price gouging beggins!

kiriba-ru
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FPV wrote:

It will, as an example, have an impact if you’d order from kiriba-ru!


Paypal have problems in many countries. They want to play similar rules in all counries while governments dont see them right. In many countries they work partly – you can pay but cant receive, can receive but cant withdraw, can use it for business but only for domestic sales. Thats why many sellers have to pay this big fees (business acc fees are much more reasonable).
If you practice ordering rare cheap items from all over the world – check your watch list. I guess after deadline prices will increase.

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FPV
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@AlexGT

Well, the email I have received was for regular consumer customers. We don’t know what rates large corporations like GB, BG, .. pay. I am sure they have ways to negotiate these things differently.

kiriba-ru
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AlexGT wrote:
Ok, so buying anything from China for example (GearBest, Fasttech, Etc) from the USA would incur in a $2.99 to $4.99 fee + 2.9% of the cost of the item?

So lets say a $5.00 item from Gearbest would now be in the best case scenario $5 + $2.99 + $0.15 = $8.14, and worst case $10.14 am I understanding this correctly?

Paypal just killed online global trading! Better get your orders in before the price gouging beggins!


No, big markets have business accs, also they can make separate acc for US buyers.

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AlexGT
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This is a copy/paste of what I found on the paypal policy link

We’re removing the variable rate pricing for sending money to friends and family members who have PayPal accounts in a country other than the United States when you send money using PayPal balance or your bank account and introducing a new flat fee of $2.99 or $4.99 per transaction depending on the recipient’s country. However, when you send money using your credit card, debit card, or PayPal credit you will be charged the new flat fee per transaction depending on the recipient’s country + 2.9% of the transaction amount + a fixed fee based on the currency.

AlexGT
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Ok this is what I got on my email

NOTICE OF POLICY UPDATES

Hello ___________________________:

Because you’re a valued PayPal customer, we want to let you know about the changes we’re making to the PayPal User Agreement, PayPal Here Agreement and the PayPal Website Payments Pro and Virtual Terminal Agreement that will go into effect on April 19, 2018. We’re also launching an update to the PayPal Privacy Policy that will replace the existing PayPal Privacy Policy on the same date. If you’re interested in more detail, please visit our Policy Updates Page.

What you’ll see in the updated User Agreement

If you want to get a better understanding of what’s different in the User Agreement, some highlights are:

• Changing some of the fees we charge.
• Changing the balance functionality for your PayPal account depending on whether we have been able to verify identifying information that you provide to us.
• Updating the additional requirements for coverage of Unauthorized Transactions under our Seller Protection program, so that they require that the payment must have been made in connection with a transaction where the buyer logged into their PayPal account to complete the transaction, in order for sellers to be covered under the program.
• Updating the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Purchase Protection program.
• Clarifying that certain checkout transactions will require a backup funding source.
• Clarifying how we calculate transaction exchange rates where we perform a currency conversion.
• Removing terms related to the Pay After Delivery product, as we will soon no longer offer this product.
• Adding terms providing that a hold may be placed on a payment sent to you at the instruction of the marketplace, if you sell on a marketplace and accept payment through your PayPal account.
• Clarifying that Sellers have certain obligations under applicable law around how they collect, store and protect user data of customers in Europe.
• Updating the user agreement to enable you to seek public injunctive relief in court instead of arbitration, if a court decides that you have a right to pursue that type of relief and it is not available in arbitration under the terms of the user agreement’s arbitration provision.
What you’ll see in our new Privacy Policy

We updated and streamlined our privacy disclosures in the PayPal Privacy Policy. This Privacy Policy, which includes a Consumer Privacy Notice, will replace our current Privacy Policy for PayPal Services and explains the information we collect, how we use it, and the choices and controls you have across our various services.

We reworded some content and added details to make our practices easier to understand. The ways we use and share your information will not change under our updated Privacy Policy. Our Policy Updates page contains highlights of the changes, as well as a link to the PayPal Privacy Policy. We encourage you to review the changes and the full Privacy Policy in advance here.

What you’ll see in the updated Pro/VT and PP Here Agreements

To clarify that PayPal is not acting as a money transmitter in connection with the PP Here and Pro/VT agreements, we added a section to those agreements stating that PayPal is acting as the merchant’s agent to receive payments on their behalf from their payers.

These changes, along with the others detailed on our Policy Updates Page, will become effective April 19, 2018 for all U.S. users. We encourage you to review the Policy Update and familiarize yourself with the changes that are being made. If you do not agree to these amendments, you may close your account before April 19, 2018.

Thank you for being a PayPal customer.

Sincerely,
PayPal

FPV
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I guess sending money to friends or people you know from a credit card (or credit facility) is a disguised way of a “cash advance”; if you’d do that from an actual credit card in a different region (say, while on vacation abroad), it would also be very expensive.

Based on the quote above, does this not apply for goods or services purchased from abroad?

Bob_McBob
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This is for personal payments, right? I ran into the same issue earlier this year trying to send a small extra payment for an item to an international account. Below a certain threshold (about $100 in Canada) it’s actually cheaper to make a normal payment and just add the fees the recipient will pay.

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kiriba-ru wrote:
page showed how much fees will PP withhold when Im sending money abroad

what I saw was for international money transfers to friends and family, when funded by a credit card

I see nothing about new fees for payment for goods and services paid for with a credit card, or not

AlexGT wrote:
So, Are they are charging a fee to get the money out of paypal and into your bank account? or the fee is for every transaction, Like when you buy something online?

from what I have read so far,
no
and no

the fees seem to be for people who are using credit cards, for international money transfers, to friends and family

FPV wrote:
Based on the quote above, does this not apply for goods or services purchased from abroad?

afaict
no

the fees are not for receiving a payment for a merchant, they are fees for transmitting money to friends and family, that is my interpretation of this part of the PayPal notice:

PayPal is not acting as a money transmitter in connection with the PP Here and Pro/VT agreements, we added a section to those agreements stating that PayPal is acting as the merchant’s agent to receive payments on their behalf from their payers.

to me it sounds like PayPal simply added fees to cover credit card transactions.

So my next move is to go relink my paypal to my bank account as primary source, instead of my credit card. But I dont actually send money to friends and family overseas, funded by a credit card, so Im not sure I really need to care.
.
.

obviously kiriba-ru thinks his sales will be affected, but I dont see anything about a fee for sales, yet.. all Ive seen is about friends and family transfers

maybe as a seller, paypal gave him a different notice, that tells him that if I use a credit card to buy from him, there will be fees… if so, the way to solve that is to pay him from a bank, not from a card…???

kiriba-ru
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jon_slider wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
page showed how much fees will PP withhold when Im sending money abroad

what I saw was for international money transfers to friends and family, when funded by a credit card

I see nothing about new fees for payment for goods and services paid for with a credit card, or not


You can check full policies text (as I said I even checked it for different countries). 1.1 is about internal fees for transactiojs from credit cart, while 1.2 is about family and friends trasfers. This updates came together with PP protection. So, part of this fees are insurance.
Did you find another page with right fees for pay for goods option?

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jon_slider
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sb56637 wrote:
Would this include even transferring to/from PayPal and the owner’s linked bank account?

afaict
no

I found this while digging around on PayPal:
We don’t charge a fee to make a transfer to your bank

kiriba-ru wrote:
You can check full policies text (as I said I even checked it for different countries). 1.1 is about internal fees for transactiojs from credit cart, while 1.2 is about family and friends trasfers. This updates came together with PP protection. So, part of this fees are insurance. Did you find another page with right fees for pay for goods option?

Im getting lost digging around, so no, I have not seen what you are asking me about..
if you post a link, I will read it

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Ah, the beauty of monopoly.
I wonder why the internet is so great at creating monopolies.

It’s a good time to shift some transactions to cryptocurrencies.

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ChibiM wrote:

Are there any good alternatives?

Maybe revolut ?

pennzy
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jon_slider wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
page showed how much fees will PP withhold when Im sending money abroad

what I saw was for international money transfers to friends and family, when funded by a credit card

I see nothing about new fees for payment for goods and services paid for with a credit card, or not

AlexGT wrote:
So, Are they are charging a fee to get the money out of paypal and into your bank account? or the fee is for every transaction, Like when you buy something online?

from what I have read so far,
no
and no

the fees seem to be for people who are using credit cards, for international money transfers, to friends and family

FPV wrote:
Based on the quote above, does this not apply for goods or services purchased from abroad?

afaic
no

the fees are not for receiving a payment for a merchant, they are fees for transmitting money to friends and family, that is my interpretation of this part of the PayPal notice:

PayPal is not acting as a money transmitter in connection with the PP Here and Pro/VT agreements, we added a section to those agreements stating that PayPal is acting as the merchant’s agent to receive payments on their behalf from their payers.

to me it sounds like PayPal simply added fees to cover credit card transactions.

So my next move is to go relink my paypal to my bank account as primary source, instead of my credit card. But I dont actually send money to friends and family overseas, funded by a credit card, so Im not sure I really need to care.
.
.

obviously kiriba-ru thinks his sales will be affected, but I dont see anything about a fee for sales, yet.. all Ive seen is about friends and family transfers

maybe as a seller, paypal gave him a different notice, that tells him that if I use a credit card to buy from him, there will be fees… if so, the way to solve that is to pay him from a bank, not from a card…???

I was always hesitant to link my bank account . If PP gets hacked ,your account becomes vulnerable.

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My bank account is unlinked because it becomes the default payment method with no way to change it. After a decade of carefully selecting my credit card every single time, it took one single late night mistake to generate a huge NSF fee because I kept the account empty.

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My cousin sends money to his sister every month by using Moneygram.  Lowest fees and best exhange rates.  

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pennzy wrote:
I was always hesitant to link my bank account . If PP gets hacked ,your account becomes vulnerable.

You can get a debit card linked to a checking account, where you can keep a 0 balance without penalty.

Transfer only enough to cover any purchases you want to make. Even if hacqued, you lose almost nothing.

If you can do it online (I intentionally didn’t enable that feature, ymmv) you can do the transfer minutes before PPing anything.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

pennzy
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Lightbringer wrote:
pennzy wrote:
I was always hesitant to link my bank account . If PP gets hacked ,your account becomes vulnerable.

You can get a debit card linked to a checking account, where you can keep a 0 balance without penalty.

Transfer only enough to cover any purchases you want to make. Even if hacqued, you lose almost nothing.

If you can do it online (I intentionally didn’t enable that feature, ymmv) you can do the transfer minutes before PPing anything.


Wouldn’t a credit card be easier?
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Lightbringer wrote:
pennzy wrote:
I was always hesitant to link my bank account . If PP gets hacked ,your account becomes vulnerable.

You can get a debit card linked to a checking account, where you can keep a 0 balance without penalty.

Transfer only enough to cover any purchases you want to make. Even if hacqued, you lose almost nothing.

If you can do it online (I intentionally didn’t enable that feature, ymmv) you can do the transfer minutes before PPing anything.

I use that system

Sorry for my bad English (gogole transtorla)

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klrman wrote:

My cousin sends money to his sister every month by using Moneygram.  Lowest fees and best exhange rates.  

thanks for sharing other options for sending money to friends and family.. I can see why paypal was not happy doing it for free..

I did a quick test, it seems Moneygram charge 5% to send money within the USA

Lightbringer wrote:
Transfer only enough to cover any purchases you want to make. Even if hacqued, you lose almost nothing.

my kid just had her bank account hacked, they got several thousand dollars
the bank refunded all of it to her account
still very inconvenient, but not by any means a total loss

the scam involved an email she received, that asked her to log in to solve a problem with her account. She logged in through the email. Dont do that! Careful reading of the from address revealed it was not from her bank at all, it was what is called a phishing scam, aka “Social Engineering”. I get those all the time. I never log in to any of my accounts, through an email.

The advantage of using a credit card (not a debit card) as the primary payment source for a paypal Purchase (not talking about sending money internationally to friends and family), is that it gives more time for me to realize I need to add funds to cover my purchase.. when I dont pay direct from my bank account,. The bank account is still a backup funding source, which would not be used unless my credit card is declined (which means I have other issues)
.
.
but most of the above comments may not be on topic

Im not seeing anything in the new paypal rules that changes how I purchase things
Im waiting to see what kiriba-ru shares, to educate me if it would help him for me to buy stuff from him using paypal linked to my bank, instead of paypal linked to my credit card..

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