18650 battery feels consistently hot and reading way over 4.3 volts?

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Valharth1031
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18650 battery feels consistently hot and reading way over 4.3 volts?

Newbie here. Ok so this weird thing happened. I have this Nitecore 18650 battery (model NL1835R, one with a USB port) that I got as a gift. I was using it fine for like a couple of days then when I decided to charge it today it felt quite a bit hot as I got it out of my MH20, which btw was off and not in use for hours. I also noticed the indicator lights on the battery were going out of whack as I took it out, then disappeared after a few minutes.
I then plugged it in to charge using the built-in port and no indicator lights were showing. I thought it wasn’t charging so I charged it using an external charger and it was charging and I had the chance to use it a few times after that.
I then set it aside to let it “rest”. After a few hours on the table, the button top of the battery felt hot (yes, hot and it was out on the table) but the body was mildly warm only. I pulled out my voltmeter and get this, it read 9.96 volts (like wtf?). I tried measuring my other batteries and those read 4.18-4.19 so I knew the voltmeter was okay.
Can anyone give me an idea what might have happened? I’m not sure if the circuitry is broke or if my battery is dead or about to explode or what. I’m kinda apprehensive about plugging it in the charger since something might happen lol. Please help.

Edited by: Valharth1031 on 04/08/2018 - 07:30
WalkIntoTheLight
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Get rid of it, safely. Obviously, that battery is waiting to vent or flame or even explode. 9.96v sounds impossible (circuitry gone wrong?), unless it’s a battery pack with multiple cells, but whatever the case, any battery that stays warm when not in use is an extreme safety hazard.

thijsco19
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Yeah, I wont trust it anymore. Most likely the circuit is broken and something weird is going on.

pennzy
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Get rid of it, safely. Obviously, that battery is waiting to vent or flame or even explode. 9.96v sounds impossible (circuitry gone wrong?), unless it’s a battery pack with multiple cells, but whatever the case, any battery that stays warm when not in use is an extreme safety hazard.

Maybe this belongs in the stupid question thread, but where is the safe place to dispose of cells?
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
… that battery is waiting to vent or flame or even explode. 9.96v sounds impossible …

Most of the vent and flame thing with li-ion is exaggerated gossip, I think. If you read Intertek's guide to the UN requirements for lithium battery testing prior to transportation, in page 9 you can see the overcharge test for single li-ion cells implies “2x voltage and current” for 24 hours, with a “no disassembly or fire within 7 days of test” pass criteria. Serious benchmark! 

And you know… well, everything's possible I believe. Wink

 

Cheers Party

WalkIntoTheLight
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Oh, I agree that many people are far too paranoid about lithium-ion cells. But, I wouldn’t keep a cell that stays hot when it’s not being used. That is trouble.

Stick it in a metal can and let it cool down. Line the can with some plastic so it doesn’t short. When it reads close to 0 volts, throw it out or recycle it. I assume it’s an internal short, so it should discharge by itself over a few hours or days.

HarleyQuin
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I wouldn’t trust Nitecore to have used only cells from quality brands. I wouldn’t trust shady chinese cell makers (there are tons of them) to produce anything that passes regulated tests.

The temperature OP describes shows either the cell or the circuit is damaged (or both). Not necessarily will this lead to a thermal rundown, but it very much increases the risk. As this produces at least poisonous fumes and fire, who wants to use this cell anymore except somebody who doesn’t care about himself or others?
And the voltage clearly is way off, so using the cell might damage anything you put it into. Why bother.

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snakebite
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only way i can see that cell reading 9.xx v is on a harbor freight meter with a low battery.
they can be wildly inaccurate when the battery is low.
the heat is damage to the charger/protection board.
i would take it off and convert it to unprotected.
cell is likely fine.

Valharth1031
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Update: Over the course of the few hours, voltage has gone down and now reads 9.68.

Valharth1031
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Barkuti wrote:

WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
… that battery is waiting to vent or flame or even explode. 9.96v sounds impossible …

Most of the vent and flame thing with li-ion is exaggerated gossip, I think. If you read Intertek’s guide to the UN requirements for lithium battery testing prior to transportation, in page 9 you can see the overcharge test for single li-ion cells implies “2x voltage and current” for 24 hours, with a “no disassembly or fire within 7 days of test” pass criteria. Serious benchmark! 


And you know… well, everything’s possible I believe. Wink


 


Cheers Party

Good to know that it’s exaggerated. Made me a bit paranoid that it would blow up in my face any moment. lol.

Valharth1031
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snakebite wrote:
only way i can see that cell reading 9.xx v is on a harbor freight meter with a low battery. they can be wildly inaccurate when the battery is low. the heat is damage to the charger/protection board. i would take it off and convert it to unprotected. cell is likely fine.

I’ll consider this. It would seem like a waste to just throw it out willy-nilly.

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All my funky cells go to the local hazardous material waste site. They take old electronics, engine oil, paint, etc.

I would be concerned about how it got to over 4.2v, that makes me think there is a charging issue.

No I would not keep it, at least as is, maybe if the protection circuit was removed.

Still a bit dim

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If those measured voltages are right (9.96V, then 9.68V after a few hours means damaged cell), such cell should be disposed. I've seen cheap 4.2V cells die just by overcharging them up to ≈4.35V. It's not worth taking a risk in this case.

 

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d_t_a
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for reference comparison, Samsung 30Q specs PDF indicates it undergoes factory stress tests by overcharging to 20v:

“Level 1”: battery damaged (leaks), but doesn’t explode..

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It’s toast and to cheap to replace to risk burning your house down. Dispose of the cell and replace it.

RobertB
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Toss it in a bucket of saltwater solution, and set it outside for a couple days. It should be good and dead by then.

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If the instruments you’re measuring these batteries with consistently measure other known voltages accurately; please do not sleep in a residence with this battery in it.
Easy enough to read less voltage from a battery, requires a specific circuit to put out a reading at 2X what you’re expecting.
There may be special circumstances but if the battery was “quite a bit hot as I got it out of my MH20, which btw was off and not in use for hours” there’s a problem.

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thijsco19
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Valharth1031 wrote:
snakebite wrote:
only way i can see that cell reading 9.xx v is on a harbor freight meter with a low battery. they can be wildly inaccurate when the battery is low. the heat is damage to the charger/protection board. i would take it off and convert it to unprotected. cell is likely fine.

I’ll consider this. It would seem like a waste to just throw it out willy-nilly.


Don’t risk it. I wouldn’t trust a cell like this anymore.

If you want a unprotected cell just buy one they are pretty cheap.

WalkIntoTheLight
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d_t_a wrote:
for reference comparison, Samsung 30Q specs PDF indicates it undergoes factory stress tests by overcharging to 20v:

I’m not sure that test indicates the cell is charged up to 20v. It may just be that they use a 20v load on it in order to force current through it to overcharge it. Can a lithium-ion cell even have a resting voltage more than about 5v?

nick779
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RobertB wrote:
Toss it in a bucket of saltwater solution, and set it outside for a couple days. It should be good and dead by then.

This.

a $10 cell is hardly worth the risk

DB Custom
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Batteries Plus, or anyplace like that, will take the discard cells.

DO NOT toss it in the saltwater solution like Robert B said! BAD ADVICE!

I’d remove the wrapper and cut the protection circuit, see if it stays a problem with the protection circuit disabled. If it seems fine then I’d remove the protection stuff and re-wrap it, keep an eye on it in use in a regular flashlight and see how it goes.

Dale

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If the resting voltage is 9.68 volts like the op stated above what use is it. If he sticks it in a flashlight it could fry his driver or give to much current from the higher voltage and go “POOF”.
I=V/R
His over twice the normal voltage. You might try removing the PCB but I don’t think the circuit can boost twice the voltage. Far as I know it’s just a simple controlled FET switch.

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Single cell XHP70 light? Big Smile

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CRX wrote:
Single cell XHP70 light? Big Smile

That will work direct drive. Might be the worlds brightest single cell XHP70 for a few seconds. Big Smile
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HarleyQuin wrote:
I wouldn’t trust Nitecore to have used only cells from quality brands. I wouldn’t trust shady chinese cell makers (there are tons of them) to produce anything that passes regulated tests..

Not sure I’d consider Nitecore shady. Do you have evidence of any shady issues Nitecore has engaged in?

As far as that goes, it’s far more likely to be a fake Nitecore. That is, some Chinese guy is recycliing used laptop batteries and has 200,000 Nitecore wrappers to use up. Nitecore chargers have been and are being counterfeited. (see links below) The OP received it as a gift so we cannot even authenticate the purchased location.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44203
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?424302-Fake-Nitecore-Chargers-even-in-very-big-stores-D4-and-others

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Couchmaster wrote:
HarleyQuin wrote:
I wouldn’t trust Nitecore to have used only cells from quality brands. I wouldn’t trust shady chinese cell makers (there are tons of them) to produce anything that passes regulated tests..

Not sure I’d consider Nitecore shady.

I did not say that.
Nitecore is not a cell maker.

I said I don’t trust Nitecore to use only quality brands. I’ve seen better brands than nitecore (and worse) using dubious chinese cells under the wrapper.
And I said I wouldn’t trust shady chinese cell makers. I very much stick to that as well.

It’s completely useless to know that a Samsung 30Q is rigorously tested, as long as we don’t know what is inside OP’s device.

I doubt Li-Ion chemistry can provide these 9V, so odds are the circuit is broken. What that is doing or has done to the cell, we don’t know until it’s tested. A damaged circuit might constantly drain the cell. Underdischarging will damage the cell.

OP’s device seems damaged anyway. I’d take the device outside the house, open it, remove the circuit and test the cell. Out of curiosity. Just to see which resting voltage it has. Then I’d remove the wrapper to see what nitecore was using. Then I’d bin it anyway and buy me a new Samsung 30Q from a reputable source. Or any other cell or device I want to use. Smile

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i still fail to see how a cell goes to 9.xx v from a charger fed from 5v and through a linear regulater charging chip.
unless its plugged into usb3 on a pc or fancy phone charger and something went wrong there.
but these are long shots.