PWM Abstinence – helping us avoid the Gravy Train

Along with politics and religion, discussions concerning the benefits (or not) of veggie-headism and PWM are Pointless Challenges destined to lose traction while increasing friction before going off the rails.

Zappaman’s Great Uncle may have referred to it the way he referred to ‘Meat Abstinence’, giving us a handle for an objective thread title.
Objectivity becomes quick victim when PWM, ripple, flicker, circuit noise, waves and their relatives rear their heads in the ‘other’ flashlight forum.

Often the only manner in which a person may become convinced, one way or another, is to avoid trying, grinding axes, or placing them in an uncomfortable ‘Tight Skirt’ as Brazilians say.

Wavy Gravy might clown about it if he hung around here, but rumor has it (or not), that he plans to run for President again.
While he isn’t looking, maybe we can hijack his moniker long enough to keep things ‘light’.

Gravy can have adherents, flavors, and can move fast or slow.
Maukka might come up with a Snob Index for it, but truth is, many of us are continually challenged when trying to avoid its consumption.
Seems they put it in everything.
A cheap and quick, near universal solution, it has its place.
Used for covering up the objections in tomorrow’s leftover ‘School Lunch’ food….(like it or not), some appreciate variety.

MecArmy, Sunwayman, Lumintop and Fenix are among those proving they can design circuits as flat as where Zappaman lives,;
_Sliderman has shown there aren’t many noGRAVY lights available.

For those of us whose brainwave frequencies and compromised retinas require the efforts of BLFs circuit experts, with apologies to Clara Peller, Wendy’s, and that aging hippie clown;

Where isn’t the Gravy ?

Or as an alternative:
Where are the Drivers capable of detouring around Gravy Trains ?

Whatever you are smoking, I want some

The problem is I am not….lol.

LED4Power makes excellent drivers without PWM if you are capable of modding. I have two lights now that use his MCPCB and Driver combination and I am impressed.

really?
will it fit an Olight S1 Mini, and can I have a Moon mode that does not Flicker, that works with a High R9 LED like the N219b sw 40 9080?

here is what maukkas scope sees with the stock XP-G3 “Constant Flicker” circuit, and what my camera sees. My eyes also see it, but I dont want to create hearsay without evidence, so get a load of this constant current circuit

Here is the movie version, 3 out of 5 use Constant Flicker:

clearly Lumintop knows how to make a non Flickering driver, so does Mecarmy
Why cant Zebra, 0Light and others not deliver a clean, constant MoonbBeam?

Have another hit, and pass it on

reactionary quote of the day:
these lists are inaccurate and misleading and should be removed from the perceived endorsement of CPF

Does the PWM increase as you approach the edge of the earth?

Please keep us informed,
and try to find some of your good Salmon there.

The crud they used to bulk-up canned pet food with has gotten old,
even when not farmed, or imported from North Korea via China.

(It’s convinced me to finally give up eating anything having eyes.)

Some ppl are PWM addicts and create their own.

rotfl, that there is some mighty fine PWM, it certainly Trumps anything I can budget for.

Ahem, that was me. I’m slowly working on a formal writeup of it though because there is a lot of bad math with some of the other PWM metrics.

Jon_Slider, please. I’ve already explained this to you. There is always ripple present and the lower the constant current regulator operates at the larger the ripple becomes. If Olight used a larger more expensive LC filter then the ripple would be less. (Or a faster switching transistor with a shorter duty cycle but that is also more expensive.)

If you look hard enough with good enough equipment you will find ripple in every light that uses a buck or boost regulator.

The S1 Mini is still considered constant current. It should also be considered embarrassingly poor engineering that has been pushed far beyond reasonable operating specifications.

I accept that you use the term Ripple, in the context of oscilloscope readings.
There is Ripple, and there is ripple, some produce visual Flicker, some do not.

If my phone or eyes can see it, I prefer to call it Constant Flicker.

If you watch my video above, you will see that there is Flicker that my Iphone can see, on “only” 3 out of the 5 lights.

Then there is flicker that I can see, as on my S1 Mini Moon. It has an almost 2kHz “Constant Ripple on a Scope”, that produces Constant Flicker on my Phone and in my eyes.

it is common practice to refer to visible flicker as PWM, even though it turns out that some lights have visible Constant Current Flicker…

If I can see it strobing, flashing, flickering, then I dont want it… Sad that so many lights fail my photo and visual tests, by using Constant Current that has Ripple that is photographable and visible as Flicker… It appears that there is some belief that it is desireable to keep Constant Current Ripple at least above 3kHz, preferably for some, above 10kHz…

I’m building a steam powered rocket that I intend to use to fly high enough take pictures of the sun that prove it uses PWM.
Also working on a semiconductor that uses vinyl for a more natural PWM so we can see the light the way the artists intended us to see it.
Big Silicon controls the sheeple but there is an emerging market for organic lights.

chinooker, wow. Was too busy listening, then I started watching. Hilarious!

Aw, man, that hurt my eyes just watching it…

Finally, a proactive poster willing to step forward with backward thinking!

Though it has likely already been asked (hopefully the Patent Offices have protected you), curious minds want to know:

Will the steam be generated from distilled, mineral, or chique boutique ‘faux-faux’ hydrogen dioxide?

Are you trying to prove our Sun uses PWM, or merely verify its frequency of 4,000,000,000,000,000 cps ?

Have you considered the advantages of using Vacuum Tubes from the only remaining ‘Valve’ plant (located in the Czech Republic)? Have they managed to source the Kryptonite needed for the tube glass?

Since you mentioned nothing about your crew, are you planning on your own One-Way Journey?
…if so, are you prepared to measure the negativePWM when emerging from the Black Hole on the other side of the Sun?

Will your principle source of entertainment during your journey be 8-Track cartridges, audio cassettes, or your Slim Whitman vinyls in case the Black Hole spits you onto Mars?

Why would you need to wait for the ‘Organic Light’ market to mature, since organic batteries already exist to boost your personal thermal and kinetic energies to levels sufficient enough for your own illumination? Who needs Big Silicon?

Are Sheeple sleeping on warm asphalt roads at night more likely to wake up in time from the new generation of PWM headlights?

Here are two Zebralights. SC600w III HI, and SC600Fd III Plus. Am I doing something wrong to show ficker? I don’t see any flicker on two levels of moonlight, or any other level for that matter.

Im happy for you, maybe dont learn to detect it and stay happy
Not sure what you are doing wrong
you can send me the light and I will test it for you if you pm me your address (hmmm someone seems dyslexic this morning)
my technique is to put the camera phone against the bezel and slowly move away until I find the resonant frequency that can be photographed

here is some info I found online, as I have no Zebra of my own

PWM
PWM is used to control output on all modes except H1. The PWM is not visible to the eye, because of its low amplitude, but possibly shows up on camera. The cycling frequency is higher on higher output modes and ranges from 775 Hz to 5000 Hz. The amplitude however is higher on the higher modes.

Flicker
There’s some ripple on L1, but because of the limited modulation depth and high frequency it isn’t visible. On higher modes the flicker is non existent.

I have also heard from one sensitive person, that they get headaches when using a Zebra as their sole source of ambient light for more than 30 minutes. Im guessing most people dont use their Zebras that way, they seem to buy for use on higher modes.

Tried it again, still can’t see it with the SC600’s. Can’t see any strobe action with shower droplets either. Zebralight does have more than 1 or 2 drivers in many different lights. I did detect it with my H600Fd headlamp on L1.

I use the H600Fd the most. Never got headaches, or anything. So I guess I’m good.

New vid with the SC600w III HI (xhp35), and SC600Fd III Plus (xhp50)

H600Fd III headlamp on L1 (couldn’t detect it on L2)

thanks for taking the time to test and share info
looks like no photographable flicker at all on your 18650 SC Zebras,
and almost none on the headlamp, glad to learn
.
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more discussion about “pwm” in Zebras here:

(actually constant current ripple, thanks to Parametrek for the education)
.
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I respect that most people dont mind photoFlicker if they cant see it with the naked eye

I prefer any pwm/ccripple/flicker to be Invisible to Both camera, and eye.
.
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Ive joined this PWM Abstinence Support Group because
Its hard not to fall off the wagon once in a while and buy a light that flickers,
Help me make my S1 Mini High CRI the last.

now I have a new desire problem, Ive been Dreaming of a

flicker free 16340 MiniZebra w N219b
Im asking for your support…
please make tax deductible paypal donations to my recovery fund

Recovery may in fact be a myth, substitution an effective band-aid.

Better than despair or attempted surpression, a copper-only SliderLight is in order.
Maybe something like ‘Emular - The One’.

With all available funds dedicated to my Third World Community Collective Social Engineering Security Project…
…at this point I am willing to offer the first 10 219b emitters.
Your choice, or mix, of Nichia 219b 9080 sw40/sw45 eye candy.

Ho hum. I seem to have lived with 100 Hz flicker (120 Hz in USA etc.) in my household incandescent lighting without getting head-aches, going blind, or fitting. Likewise watching TV and films at the cinema.

Cheap inefficient low frequency PWM instead of decent current control or high frequency PWM in high powered torches maybe another thing, but I can’t say it has ever bothered me, except in conditions such as rainfall, where it can be interesting.

Perhaps I am just insensitive. Or perhaps it is a non-issue to almost everyone, except those who like to look for it with digital devices instead of their eyes, and make it out to be an issue.