Battery test, what to include?

40 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Battery test, what to include?

I am looking at doing a new battery test to replace my 2011 test, I have switches to some new equipment with considerable better precision and more automation.

This thread is for good ideas about what to include in the test, both measurements and batteries.

One source of error was the charging, first year I uses a WF139, in the 2011 test I used a hobby charger, and I both test there was a variable amount of time before I did the discharge (Doing a discharge 5 minutes after charging or 24 hours after charging does not give the same result). This time I am using a computer controlled power supply. This makes it possible to set any charge parameters and I have very good precision on them. In the test run I show here I had 4.168 volt just before starting the discharge test for all 3 runs (i.e. the charge was the same within 1 mV).

As charge parameter I used:

Minimum charge current: 100mA, charge voltage 4.2 volt (This is the same as a hobby charge on 1A LiPo setting). Then wait exactly one hour (+/- 1 second) before starting the discharge.

For the discharge I have replace my CBA with a computer controlled electronic load, this can be used to do all kind of discharge and load tests with. This does also allow me to do 4 terminal measuring, i.e. no problem with connection or wire resistance.

I plan on doing discharges at 0.2A, 0.5A, 1A, 2A, 3A and 5A, but for the test run I only did the 3 high discharges.

Are there any interest in doing one or two constant power power discharges, i.e. discharge with 10 watt and see how long the battery lasts?

 

It is also possible to include the internal resistance, but the question is how to calculate it, as can be seen in my test of the current protection, it is not easy to always get the same value.

The test will also include a test of the current protection, my trial run is posted here.

At the current time I am plan on doing RediLast, AW, intl-outdoor.com, Callies, TrustFire Flame, more will be added.

The capacity curve will look like this:

 

If there is interest, I can also do this kind of curve (i.e. with time scale):

When doing the measurements I do get a energy graph for free and will include it:

 

 

 

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Jaygnar
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
Joined: 11/13/2011 - 15:21
Posts: 145
Location: Six feet underground (in my basement "media room"

You could include the Solarforce Brand 18650, since I have some of those =)

Also, you could try a few of the generic Ultrafire "reds".

Since those batteries are a total lottery according to users, they might make for some interesting data tables when compared to each-other. (Please understand that I don't know crap about batteries and that I understand that if you don't own any of these crap batteries, I don't really expect you to buy them, since they are random quality and may even damage your awesome testing equipment. )

Just some thoughts!

Thanks!

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Jaygnar wrote:
You could include the Solarforce Brand 18650, since I have some of those =)

Also, you could try a few of the generic Ultrafire "reds".

 

It is most interesting to test cells that are new or used by many. I do not know if SolarForce are widely used.

I forgot to mention that I have ordered some UltraFires from the UltraFire shop, they will also be included. Maybe it would also be a good idea to buy the same UltraFire from DX and compare them.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Fern
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 09/13/2011 - 04:29
Posts: 197
Location: New Zealand

Good to see the tests continuing and improving.

It would be interesting to see the XTAR 18650 2600mAh cell included which is supposedly Sanyo based. Perhaps also of interest would be plain unprotected Panasonic NCR18650 and NCR18650A as there has been some speculation regarding fake cells, so it would be good to have a reputable and accurate reference.

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

Fern wrote:
It would be interesting to see the XTAR 18650 2600mAh cell included which is supposedly Sanyo based.

They *are* Sanyo-based (people on other forums opened it and disassembled the cell) and called XTAR 18700 2600mAh. Among my 18650 cells they are my most beloved ones. They are truely outstanding, with low self-discharge rate and long life.

Quality cells made by Sanyo (as are Eneloops made by Sanyo). Afaik they were already tested/measured on forums but if you want to repeat the tests with better equipment (i find the Voltage vs. time -graph very helpful), then i'd love to see the results, sure.

+ 1 for the XTAR 18700 2600mAh then! Smile

( i think i got mine from hkequipment.net )

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
kragmutt
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 03/17/2011 - 01:20
Posts: 406
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

I would also like to see Hi-max.

HKJ, I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your expertise and dedication in all things electronic.

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

forgot to say thanks.

 

Thanks henrik!!

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
jacktheclipper
jacktheclipper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 1 min ago
Joined: 10/31/2010 - 21:18
Posts: 4872
Location: Florida , U.S.A.

I ordered Solarforce 2400 protected cells because I'm too lazy  to shop around .

I bought a host and figured , " Hey , I'll just throw one of these in the cart ".

As it turns out , I like them . But you really don't hear much about them .

Please test these .

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 31 min ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3651
Location: RO

Fern wrote:

 Perhaps also of interest would be plain unprotected Panasonic NCR18650 and NCR18650A as there has been some speculation regarding fake cells, so it would be good to have a reputable and accurate reference.

For 2 years I see people saying that they've heard the Panasonic NRC18650 or NRC18650A might be fake. So far I have not seen anyone showing any fakes. Probably there the wrong impression that a 2900mAh battery will get you 1 more hour on High with just  300mAh extra capacity and some started speculating.

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 31 min ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3651
Location: RO

HKJ, do you think it's important to do any break-ins (3 cycles) to the cells in order to get the maximum capacity or you do that already with your tests?

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Fern wrote:
Perhaps also of interest would be plain unprotected Panasonic NCR18650 and NCR18650A as there has been some speculation regarding fake cells, so it would be good to have a reputable and accurate reference.

 

First question: Where do I get some NCR18650 where I am sure they are original?

Second: There is 2x2900mAh and 4x3100mAh protected cells planned for the test, is it necessary to include the unprotected cells also, especially if the above cells has nearly equal performance.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Hikelite wrote:

HKJ, do you think it's important to do any break-ins (3 cycles) to the cells in order to get the maximum capacity or you do that already with your tests?

 

There is not supposed to be much (if any) difference with break-in for LiIon cells. The test sequence will be from low to high current, i.e. when doing the 3 ampere test they have already had 4 cycles (0.2, 0.5, 1, 2).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Any comments on this header:

The trip test:

 

A test with 10 watt load:

 

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Volk
Volk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 03/07/2011 - 20:21
Posts: 264
Location: Sweden

Yep!

Looks great! Looking forward to the whole test.

robertkoa
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 hours ago
Joined: 10/12/2011 - 17:03
Posts: 194

There's the regular Trustfires( done )and the higher current Trustfires.

Then there's the Redilast 2900 mah and 3100 mah and the Callies 2900 and 3100 mah.

There's the Panasonic 2900 protected ones from Ebay that are 2 for about  $ 24.

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Volk wrote:
Looks great! Looking forward to the whole test.

 

I am doing my (hopefully) last test run now and then I can start on the real test. The test will take a lot of time and I plan on publishing each battery when done.

 

robertkoa wrote:

There's the regular Trustfires( done )and the higher current Trustfires.

Then there's the Redilast 2900 mah and 3100 mah and the Callies 2900 and 3100 mah.

There's the Panasonic 2900 protected ones from Ebay that are 2 for about  $ 24.

 

The Flame TrustFire is not done yet, the cell I have been testing with is a year old, I have some new one lying around and they will be tested later on. They might even be the first cells tested, but that depends on when all the other cells arrives.

I have ordered RediLast 2600, 2900 and 3100.

Callies does only have 3100 and some 2250 high current cells, not 2900 cells.

What are you thinking on with "higher current TrustFire"?

And are the ebay cells from the intl-outdoor shop (They are in the mail).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Buwuve
Buwuve's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 02/11/2011 - 14:49
Posts: 1975
Location: Germany

A new batterie is in town - Spark built a protected 2600mAh (Sanyo inside) and presented now on their homepage. Maybe it is a good product for the test. Perhaps Spark offers you 1-2 free batteries for the test?

http://www.spark-store.com/index.php?a=47

Light up the darkness.

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Interesting, I will include it in my test.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Volk
Volk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 03/07/2011 - 20:21
Posts: 264
Location: Sweden

Which cells from intl-outdoor.com are you going to test? I just looked on their page and they have some very interesting cells there. I would love to see a test of all the Panasonic 18650 cells and both of the 26650 cells from MNKE and Kingkong.

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

This test will mostly be 18650 cells, but I might look at other sizes later on.

From Hank I am expecting NCR18650A PROTECTED and Sanyo16650 PROTECTED. They can arrive any day now, they where shipped 11 days ago.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Volk
Volk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 03/07/2011 - 20:21
Posts: 264
Location: Sweden

Since NCR18650A is the one I'm most interested in that's just going to have to be good enough. Wink

Thanks for all your hard work.

ri chevy
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/26/2011 - 20:50
Posts: 782
Location: Ocean State

Sanyo 2600

Ian2381
Ian2381's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: 06/11/2011 - 00:50
Posts: 643
Location: Philippines

Panasonic CGR18650CH 2250mah from international outdoors

Thanks for doing this and looking forward to the test results.Laughing

benckie
benckie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/04/2011 - 08:36
Posts: 1513
Location: Western Austraila

HKJ wrote:

From Hank I am expecting NCR18650A PROTECTED and Sanyo16650 PROTECTED. They can arrive any day now, they where shipped 11 days ago.

Im intrested in the NCR18650A PROTECTED batteries Hank at a discharge of 3 and 5 amps

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Ian2381 wrote:
Panasonic CGR18650CH 2250mah from international outdoors

I have this on order and expect to add a 7A and 10A discharge rates to the test for this cell.

 

benckie wrote:

Im intrested in the NCR18650A PROTECTED batteries Hank at a discharge of 3 and 5 amps

I have read your test of it and am very curious if it is a general problem with his cells or if you just was unlucky.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

benckie
benckie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/04/2011 - 08:36
Posts: 1513
Location: Western Austraila

Im pritty unlucky, but i guess your test will be effected if the PCB,s only have one mosfet in them.

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

benckie wrote:
Im pritty unlucky, but i guess your test will be effected if the PCB,s only have one mosfet in them.

The number of mosfet's does not have to be a significant factor, you can get mosfet's in many qualities and one good mosfet can be better than two cheaper mosfet's.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

benckie
benckie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/04/2011 - 08:36
Posts: 1513
Location: Western Austraila

So true but what quality do you think your going to get for $1.99 usd installed with wrapper, label and one mosfet, including some ones time to weld it and put it all together ?

Like i said im pritty unlucky but it would be nice if more people could test these protected ones with discharges higher then 1 amp.

Mine took 16 days to get here to Australia, so yours should be there any day now to test and im sure they will be fine.

ANTI-NOWHERE-LEAGUE
ANTI-NOWHERE-LEAGUE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 10 months ago
Joined: 11/07/2011 - 22:32
Posts: 78
Location: England

There are definitely fet's and fet's!

Must have thousands of the critters in various ESC 's and they get a good hammering in electric powered aircraft up to 12s li-po and if they are naff they zap real quick and melt plastic nicely.

As for me I would like to see something on these, might score some to checkout today after a BLF search.

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/protected-trustfire-18650-37v-3000mah-rechargeable-batteries-2pcsset-p-7941

M.

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7067
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

ANTI-NOWHERE-LEAGUE wrote:
As for me I would like to see something on these, might score some to checkout today after a BLF search.

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/protected-trustfire-18650-37v-3000mah-rechargeable-batteries-2pcsset-p-7941

I saw that link yesterday and has been thinking about including that cell.

Next "problem" is prioritize the tests, in one to two weeks I expect to have a large pile of LiIon cells. At the current time I only have a few (TrustFire and UltraFires) and Callies that is testing at the moment (The intl-outdoor will be tested when I receive it).

I expect to be running the test equipment continuous for the next few months, producing one to two test/reviews each week.


My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

2100
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 05/28/2011 - 10:28
Posts: 4512
Location: SINGAPORE

Thanks for the good and hard work!  One thing to note is that in flashlights, unless you are in sub-zero conditions and at least a 5kph breeze, is that the cells would be somewhat warm.  ie from both the discharge as well as heat generated by the light being switched on continuously.    It is winter now, and if your house is at 10 deg C, it might not be a good indicator.   Lots of people live near the equator too.

But i don't think Denmark is that cold, so if the house is heated i guess it's ok.   Maybe place the cell on the charger (warm), probe it with a IR thermometer first?

 

It's 28.9 deg C in my house right now, and that is considered quite cooling.  I switch on the air-conditioning usually after i bathe....and keep it at 26 deg C (24 deg C at first to cool my body). At nearly 30 cents per kWh it is not cheap!

Pages