Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

804 posts / 0 new
Last post
kuzuna
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 07/30/2018 - 15:03
Posts: 40

eikido wrote:
Checking the reviews of these cells, they seem completely fine? Many reviewers even test them properly.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324914059.html?productId=32324914059&p...

31000 order and 17000 reviews with a score of 4.8.

What am i missing?


As a general rule, you can’t trust average ratings on AliExpress. Not because there’s shady stuff going on, but because most buyers give 5 stars immediately as soon as the item arrives, before they’ve even started using it.
Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

eikido wrote:
Checking the reviews of these cells, they seem completely fine? Many reviewers even test them properly.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324914059.html?productId=32324914059&p...

31000 order and 17000 reviews with a score of 4.8.

What a weird link. Where did you got it? AliExpress application? Everything beyond the question mark in it is useless, by the way: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324914059.html

Remembers me of the classic eBay link format.

A score of 4.8? So what? The value of an assessment goes as far as the assessor's knowledge and expertise. And many don't know a @#$%. 

eikido wrote:

What am i missing?

Deception or fraud.

This is caused by rampant secrecy in the li-ion/battery industry combined with people's ignorance.

The cells may be good cells but they're neither NCR18650B nor Panasonic.

 

Cheers Party 

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

kuzuna wrote:

As a general rule, you can't trust average ratings on AliExpress. Not because there's shady stuff going on, but because most buyers give 5 stars immediately as soon as the item arrives, before they've even started using it.

Exactly. In fact I opened a related thread the other day: Feedback on AliExpress advice (AliExpress or anywhere (-: else)

 

Smile 

eikido
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/02/2019 - 02:55
Posts: 19

But some reviewers have tested them before rating them and even provided tests? Actually many of them have done that.

Sorry for being contradictory, I’m just trying to learn. At the end of the day, I always trust you guys more. Like way more.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5323
Location: Canada

Well, having looked at that listing, not only are the cells not genuine, but nobody in the **reviews seemed to have tested internal resistance.

Almost all cells have no problem handling 500-800mA, but going say, above 1A, can result in very bad voltage drops.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

eikido
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/02/2019 - 02:55
Posts: 19

The internal resistance is shown on the reviewers pictures of the chargers.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5323
Location: Canada

The chargers aren’t very accurate that way, and they measure resistance differently than what we want to.

What we want is DC resistance using a dedicated device, like I used.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

eikido
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/02/2019 - 02:55
Posts: 19

Ok, I get it. Thanks

Unloco
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour ago
Joined: 01/27/2018 - 16:17
Posts: 249

eikido wrote:
Checking the reviews of these cells, they seem completely fine? Many reviewers even test them properly.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324914059.html?productId=32324914059&p...

31000 order and 17000 reviews with a score of 4.8.

What am i missing?

Four legs in positive end.
Genuine NCR18650B have three legs.

eikido
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/02/2019 - 02:55
Posts: 19

I understand they are fake NCR18650B. I was more thinking that they are generic cells that are performing well.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5323
Location: Canada

Yes, but people wouldn’t buy them if they were advertised as generic cells.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

leftdisconnected
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2018 - 17:41
Posts: 263
Location: United States
eikido wrote:
I understand they are fake NCR18650B. I was more thinking that they are generic cells that are performing well.

But they aren’t just generic cells. They’re counterfeit cells. Generic cells are fine, but counterfeit cells are fraud and the company owners should be fined and/or jailed for it.

Let’s put it this way. If you find an “iPhone X” that’s not made by Apple, but seems to be a decent phone for the price, do you buy it? How about a “Ferrari” made by Ximari that looks and sounds like the real thing? Perhaps a counterfeit replacement knee that’s a quarter the price of the one your doctor ordered? Purchasing some of these counterfeits may work out okay for you, but each purchase rewarded counterfeiters and harmed the legitimate brands.

These items may be good values, perhaps, but they aren’t what they claim to be, so buying them encourages the marketplace to sell more fakes. I’m not claiming that you can fix the world’s ills by avoiding counterfeit products and I can’t condemn anyone for buying decent batteries at fair prices, especially if they need hundreds of cells for packs or something. I’m just hoping to make a point.

RobAllen

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

BlueSwordM wrote:
Yes, but people wouldn't buy them if they were advertised as generic cells.

I still consider myself alluded by the term “people” and I would buy the cells in their original wraps. I find this a lot more enticing than buying cells in non-original wraps. It is my will to exactly know what I am buying.

These are part of the reasons I asked Henrik to review some of the EAIEP wrapped cells found in AliExpress (he did 33Gs and 25Rs, the last ones are LG B4 cells at ultra-low unit price). The deception is acceptably lighter this way, and the price is also lower. I would like to see the EAIEP 26F one reviewed, by the way, I think it is a pretty good Heter Battery cell.

 

Cheers Party 

ecotack
ecotack's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/11/2016 - 06:50
Posts: 149
Location: UK, Cumbria

I bought some LiitoKala 100% Original 3.7V INR 18650 30Q from the liitokala Official Store. From my tests and what I have read on here, they are not 100% Samsung (as written on the product page). However, they appear to be a reasonable high current cell. How safe do you think these would be in a 5P13S e-bike battery pack, with a maximum drain of 26 amp?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5323
Location: Canada

No!

The fake Liitokala 30Qs are based off of the LG F1L, a cheap 3200mAh 4,8A cell, and gets very hot compared to a real Samsung 30Q at 5A.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

BlueSwordM wrote:

The fake Liitokala 30Qs are based off of the LG F1L …

Presuming maybe? The capacity of the F1L is above 3100mAh at 0.5A typical analyzing charger discharge rates. It does not really match that well, and is a foreign cell anyway.

Maybe it is this:

 

Source: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Widely-used-DLG-3-7v-rechargeable_60778057357.html

This one matches better and is easily available in china. Sold under different wraps, Sofirn included:

 

Check here for related discussion.

 

Cheers Smile 

LerkyBoy
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/28/2019 - 05:13
Posts: 1

Uhmm just wondering, are these batteries trustworthy?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32793701336.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesit...

My friend said they are pretty legit cause he has used these type of batteries before for his e-cig so im wondering if i should keep them or refund them

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

LerkyBoy wrote:
Uhmm just wondering, are these batteries trustworthy?
Link edited for de-crapping: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32793701336.html

My friend said they are pretty legit cause he has used these type of batteries before for his e-cig so im wondering if i should keep them or refund them

I'll try to avoid being judgmental but, unfortunately, your friend knows jack shit. LiitoKala is known to be making business selling fake batteries, and those cells are 100% fake guaranteed. Check the reviews, but check them well: select “Sort by latest” and look for additional feedback (AliExpress' feedback system encourages quick, badly done reviews with inflated ratings).

I see complaints by recent customers. You can also see this:

 

 

Genuine LG HG2 cells will hardly deliver ≈2.9Ah down to 2.8V at 0.5A discharge rate, you can check reviews like this one.

Those cells being sold by LiitoKala as LG HG2s are some kind high capacity, lesser discharge performance cells (maybe own brand LG D2 or F1L cells).

 

There are trustworthy places to get batteries from if that is what you aim for. Like Aliya's, Lucky's or NKON

 

Cheers Smile 

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

You have a way with words Barkuti, I love it!! . Thumbs Up . Beer

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

mrheosuper
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 09/30/2016 - 12:44
Posts: 1471
Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Barkuti wrote:

BlueSwordM wrote:

The fake Liitokala 30Qs are based off of the LG F1L …

Presuming maybe? The capacity of the F1L is above 3100mAh at 0.5A typical analyzing charger discharge rates. It does not really match that well, and is a foreign cell anyway.


Maybe it is this:


 



Source: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Widely-used-DLG-3-7v-rechargeable_60778057357.html


This one matches better and is easily available in china. Sold under different wraps, Sofirn included:


 



Check here for related discussion.


 


Cheers Smile 


hey, i have this battery(exactly in the picture), the IR is about 35mOhm(measured with 4 wires probe), and the most important thing, it’s dirt cheap, less than $2 per cell, great for <1500 lumen flashlight

Forgot my pen

WalkIntoTheLight
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 16 min ago
Joined: 12/05/2015 - 10:26
Posts: 1928
Location: Canada
Barkuti wrote:

LerkyBoy wrote:
Uhmm just wondering, are these batteries trustworthy?
Link edited for de-crapping: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32793701336.html

My friend said they are pretty legit cause he has used these type of batteries before for his e-cig so im wondering if i should keep them or refund them

I’ll try to avoid being judgmental but, unfortunately, your friend knows jack shit. LiitoKala is known to be making business selling fake batteries, and those cells are 100% fake guaranteed.

They’re not fake. They’re “LiitoKala Lii-HG2” cells, not LG HG2 cells. It’s perfectly clear! Wink

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 4147
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

Wow! Facepalm
Didn't pay attention to my own latest messages here. Smile

Yes, that DLG battery. With a 4-lobe top, very much like LG HG2 cells. Ticket to ride LoL!

 

Smile 

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5346
Location: Germany

There are still shops like Vapcell that sell genuine cells
https://vapcell.de.aliexpress.com/store/group/brand-battery/1084158_5140...

not sure but I think HaikeLite can be also trusted
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32988353697.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000016...

Pages