Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

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BlueSwordM
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If only I coule order one without paying huge shipping costs.

Using my 20A constant current tester, it would have been easy to see if these were real Samsung 30Qs, by capacity and internal resistance.

WalkIntoTheLight
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JackJax wrote:
Just got my six 30Q delivery. Ordered through the link in the OP. The batteries have the 4 legs to the positive post, not 3 as my other 30Q cells.

Going to test voltage, then drain and then charge in a VC4 to see about capacity. Will report back with more info.

Update: All six were at 3.62V

It’s interesting that the original link now shows the 30Q cells with 3 legs, not 4 like they used to show and the version you received.

Anyway, it’s very likely you got fakes. Whether they’re still sending fakes remains to be seen.

JackJax
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What’s the first 3 characters of your postal code? (PM me, maybe) If shipping isn’t a lot of $, I’ll send you one of the ones I got.

BlueSwordM
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The problem is that I live in Canada, so that was why the shipping costs were so abhorrent in the 1st place.

So, even if you were to ship me one, it would cost both you and me way too much.

JackJax
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I wouldn’t mind a reasonable shipping cost but I forgot about customs/tax on your end. Makes sense.

All I’m able to do with my equipment is discharge with a Lii-202 (using that to charge a large portable battery pack) and then charge the cells in a VC4.

BlueSwordM
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Yeah, still better than nothing.
But it could be a 3000mAh cell with high internal resistance for all we know.

If someone in Canada actually took the plunge, I could check.

Do you have some power resistors?

If you can parallel some resistors to get a load of about 10A, then connect and record the voltage instantly, you could easily calculate internal resistance and compare it to HKJ’s measurement.

Barkuti
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JackJax wrote:
… If shipping isn't a lot of $, I'll send you one of the ones I got.

Send him at least a couple cells to take a peek at cell consistency.

 

Cheers Smile

JackJax
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Good idea. Thanks Barkuti.

I’ll leave two as they came, in case I get some equipment to test. Until then, I’ll try the others in my regulated lights.

JakeDjanitor
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I ordered 6 30q Tracking won’t work. I hope they are the real deal. What should the internal resistance be? I have an opus analyzing charger.

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Just tested a couple 30Qs I got super-cheap as protected 26Fs (found 'em Smile after removing the protection) in my optimized Lii-500:

  1. After first seating in slots 2 & 3: 29mΩ & 32mΩ.
  2. After second seating: 31mΩ & 29mΩ.

Cells have little use.

 

Cheers Smile

P.S.: each slot's DC resistance adds up onto its AC cell IR, if I'm not mistaken.

JakeDjanitor
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Thank you, I ordered them when this thread started. As soon as they arrive I will check them

WalkIntoTheLight
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah, still better than nothing. But it could be a 3000mAh cell with high internal resistance for all we know.

Or, it could be a cheap no-name cell that is not made to the same safety standards that the name-brands are.

Either way, it may not be a wise idea to use it in high-drain lights (like those that use a FET driver).

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Just for reference, I ordered 4 × 30Q button top’s from the Banggood sale at the same time all this was going on from the Littokala Aliexpress store in this thread. They arrived last week and all 4 weighed in at 47gr, internal resistance was 20 ohm, capacity 3050 mah at 1 amp charge and discharge, and they have 3 vents each. With the coupon and shipping $22.99.

I also ordered 4 × 30Q button top from LIION Wholesale last week for $23.75, ships within the US in about 1 week. And when they come in, I will post the results here for reference.

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d_t_a
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They do look different from the ones I got from another AliExpress store, about half a year ago (“Liitokala official store”, the one that has ‘hongkong’ in the store URL)

For your 4-pronged 30Qs, are there markings or codes underneath the pink wrapper (they should still be vaguely visible)

(I have to use photo editing software to adjust the contrast since my budget camera had hard time to pick them up)

(this reads: L0H5 65V21)

(this reads: NMA6 W16)

I believe those markings underneath the pink wrapper are manufacture lot/date codes that should be on genuine Samsung cells.
(anyone knows how to decipher the date for those ‘underneath’ codes?)

JackJax
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Left is recent order, right is authentic.

It seems that the order of 6 use a thicker wrap. Can’t see any numbers underneath the wrap on those.

ImA4Wheelr
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Received mine today.  99% certain they are fakes due to the following:

  • Connected to 10 amp electronic load and could not even pull 850mA of current from the one cell I tried to test.  I need to verify my setup tomorrow night.  It's late and I have to crash.
  • There are clear signs that there were previous wrappers that had been stripped off the cans.  Remnants of the old wrappers show through the existing shrink wrap.
  • The shrink wrap is slightly darker and thicker than my real 30Q's.  I can not locate any signs of date stamp on the cans through the wrappers, but it's late.  I'll check again tomorrow..
  • I can't see vents (or what appears to be vents) under the button like I can on my real 30Q's.

I have 4 of the cells discharge testing on a Lii-500 at 1 amp rate.  I should have results in the morning. 

EDIT: I retract the struck out parts above.  More testing is required.  Please see my post about 4 posts down.

BlueSwordM
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Ah! What kind of holder do you have to test the cells?

Because if it is a crappy eBay holder, these things can’t handle 1A without a massive voltage drop.

See you tomorrow morning!

ImA4Wheelr
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Custom holder with short 18 gauge wires pressed firmly against the cell terminals, but I do need to make sure all my connections are in order. I think I see signs of corrosion on the wires.  I'll report back tomorrow.

BlueSwordM
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Ok then.

Prepare your credit cards for the results!

If anybody else can chime in and test the cells, then we can see what the cells really are:

- Real Samsung 30Qs(hopefully)
- 18650s with characteristics similar to 30Qs, but cheaper(LG HG2 is a bit cheaper usually then the 30Q for some reason on wholesale sites like Alibaba)
- Rebadged high drain lower capacity cell, like an HE4, or a Samsung 25R.
- Real 3000mAh cell, but with very high internal resistance, like a laptop cell
- Recycled cell and not tested for capacity
- Ultrafire

BTW, I just received my 6 Samsung 30Qs from Sunway store.

I will soon post a review of them.

ImA4Wheelr
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^

I have to retract my earlier opinion.  There is something wrong with my electronic load.  It has served me faithfully until now.  I'm getting the same odd results with my real 30Q's too.  I played with connections and switched carriers and I still can only pull low amperage with even my trusted cells that once performed well in the load.

The  raised areas that I thought were remnants of other wrappers turned out to be imperfections in the wrapper itself.

I stripped one wrapper and found no date stamp  or any other markings on the can:

 

 

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Speed4goal
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In your picture it looks like the top part of the can is different then the top part of the fake cell. I’m willing to bet they saw this thread and changed their picture.

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I’ve gone through about 50 Samsung 30qs and I’ve never seen one that hasn’t had date codes on the can there should be 3 or 4 of them. Not a bare Can. They maybe trying to pass off mh1 Cells off. Would give the right capacity and be a 10 amp cell. Just a wild guess on that.

Doesn’t make sense why liito Kala would shoot themselves in the foot and ruin their reputation.

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g_damian wrote:
Bought 3PCS LiitoKala For panasonic USB-34B 18650 3400mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargebale battery With LED Indicator Light DC-Charging - here is the test result:

I think it is to low for 3400mAh...

Unless your Lii-500 is not accurate at all (my Lii-500 measures about 2% low, for example), that's a fake cell.

Buying cells whose top is for whatever reason covered (protected cells or with charging ports) makes counterfeiting easier. Cell top shape is the single most differentiating/identificating factor, as when you buy known 3-lobe top cells and you receive cells with 4 or 5 lobes you can smell the presumed rip-off.

Gosh, it stinks for me to see people posting pictures of their received cells but not clearly showing cell tops.


I believe we should do something in this respect here (in the Commercial Seller's Spot), to check if at least some known AliExpress cell sellers have something to say. There's some sort of gang behind the Great Wall which is making money rewrapping cheaper and readily available cells as what they are not.

 

Cheers Smile

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Thought I’d share my charging details.

Note, these cells were discharged using the Lii-202 and then charged with an Xtar VC4. Did this with 4 of the cells, the first number is the voltage at the time of inserting them into the charger and the second number the mAh that the VC4 indicated when the cells finished charging.

3.04V → 2,961mAh
3.04V → 2,934mAh
3.01V → 2,989mAh
3.02V → 2,975mAh

Clearly, we’ve got some individuals with actual testing capabilities here. Just thought the additional data wouldn’t hurt.

ImA4Wheelr
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^

Just read your posts.  It appears you and I received the same type of cell.  I have sent a message to the vendor telling him/her that my cells are not real 30Q's based on wrapper and lack of can stamps.  I should have included the differences on the positive terminal.  I'll report back if I receive a reply.

 

Speed4goal wrote:
I've gone through about 50 Samsung 30qs and I've never seen one that hasn't had date codes on the can there should be 3 or 4 of them. Not a bare Can. They maybe trying to pass off mh1 Cells off. Would give the right capacity and be a 10 amp cell. Just a wild guess on that. Doesn't make sense why liito Kala would shoot themselves in the foot and ruin their reputation.

Sorry for my ignorance.  What is this mh1 cell you mention?

BlueSwordM
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This:
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG%2018650%20MH1%203200mAh%20...

A cell with the same capacity as the 30Q, but twice the internal resistance.

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I’ve messaged the seller yesterday. First asking “are these cells authentic?” And I got a reply of “I gave you a box.” Then I explained some of the discrepancies I noticed and their reply was “Dear buyers, our batteries are all very good, you will know if you use them.” Facepalm

Probably time to open a dispute with AliExpress. Maybe/hopefully you’ll get a better answer.

ImA4Wheelr
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^

I bet I get similar replies.  I'll try to work it out with the seller for a bit anyway.  Thanks for that info. 

 

BlueSwordM wrote:
This: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG%2018650%20MH1%203200mAh%20... A cell with the same capacity as the 30Q, but twice the internal resistance.

Thank you BSM.  Interesting the mention of the impressive matching.  I have to say the same.  These cells have provided incredibly similar test results.  Even their arriving voltages were the same.  Seems like you all may be onto something.  I wonder if the MH1 has can stamps.  A quick google isn't answering that for me.

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I don’t know how friendly aliexoress is to customers I think barkuti had hell getting his money back and not sure if he ever did.

But just maybe people will get a refund and get to keep the cells. If that’s the case then it’s free decent cells.

Liito Kala is probably betting most users won’t notice a difference they’ll just run a capacity test and that’s as far as it will go. If they got a handful of claims they could settle. But the hundreds of other orders would all be money in the bank. I use to respect them. From now on for my 26550s shockli and Evva from richard have my business

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Blf has changed a lot since I've been here. Lots of snow flakes and easily offended over nothing. When the forum use to be great and people joked around and could take a joke. It's a forum it's not that serious. Let's make BLF great again!

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