Massive sale on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress store!

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Agro
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Interestingly…
this shipment from Liitokala Factory Store was unusual because it was not delivered by the postman but by a courier. I believe it’s my first courier delivery from China.
Today I got a shipment of 21700-40A from Liitoka Official Store.
Courier too. And batteries came in exactly the same cardboard box. With exactly the same cushion.
They were very cheap too, ~$3.5 each.
Is there a serious risk of them being fake too?

GreenLights
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I ordered an authentic NCR18650B from Illumn just so I can compare them side-to-side and gather evidence to file my claim. Please keep us informed here what works/doesn’t work when dealing with these scumbag sellers please.

Just discovered this wonderful addiction.

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So I wanted to see what these counterfeit 30Qs would do with my limited tests. Clearly, I wasn't going for max output with a D4 XP-L.  I didn't want to start an uncontrolled cascade reaction with these unknown cells wink!  Edit: Ok, changed my mind... I read about 8.4A with my D4 v's 9.8A from a newish Sony VTC5.

I used two lights: W612 host (QLITE REV.A 7135*8 3.04A LED DRIVER & XM-L2 U3 3D LED on Noctigon 20mm MCPCB) and GB Convoy S2 (XP-L HI)

1∆= 1st charge, delta meaning 'change in' V, A.

Here are the results:

cell # V (init)+/-.01 A (W612) A (S2) V (1∆) mAh A (1∆ W612 A (1∆ S2)
1 3.62 2.0 1.92 4.20 2046 2.90 3.24
2 3.62 2.12 1.96

4.19

1995 2.96 3.27
3 3.62 2.1 1.90 4.19 2008 3.14 3.24
4 3.62 2.05 1.98 4.18 1946 3.13 3.25
5 3.62     4.19 1953 3.12 3.22
6 3.62     4.18 1915 3.12 3.27

I was a little surprised that these fakes pushed the S2 that hard but not the W612. Then again, I used the S2 for to its' consistency in manufacturing.

The first current readings were prior to charging and I started charging 5 & 6 without a current read.

Given the starting voltage, can I really expect to get 3,000 mAh?

If this helps anyone to figure out who manufactured these cells, then great!

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Barkuti
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Agro wrote:

Today I got a shipment of 21700-40A from Liitoka Official Store.
Courier too. And batteries came in exactly the same cardboard box. With exactly the same cushion.
They were very cheap too, ~$3.5 each.
Is there a serious risk of them being fake too?

While everything is possible, nearly for sure those ones are authentic because there's just no cheaper 21700 available with close enough specs to make it worth bulkfaking. In fact, that probably is the cheapest 21700 being produced right now. 

 

Cheers Party

justanotherguy
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So frustrating..
I’m on holiday and won’t be home until next Thursday… I have 18 of these coming…another cu s2 and a d4….

Hopefully everything is at the post office and I can dig into this thread a bit deeper that I can here with a phone and mediocre wifi…. I’ve only received one AliExpress delivery notification..I expect two from them….

Agro
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I measured resistance of nearly new VTC5A, fake VTC5A and suspected Lii-40A.
In order:
12 mOhm, 16 mOhm, 10 mOhm.

Fakes are better than I expected. Lii-40A looks OK.

Note: I don’t trust the results to be close to accurate, but relatively should be OK.

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Agro wrote:
I measured resistance of nearly new VTC5A, fake VTC5A and suspected Lii-40A. In order: 12 mOhm, 16 mOhm, 10 mOhm. Fakes are better than I expected. Lii-40A looks OK.

What instrument did you use to make these internal resistance measurements? I am trying to zero in on one that is relatively accurate - or at least consistent. Thanks!

BlueSwordM
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Basically this if you want to test both capacity and resistance with a 4-wire tester. Can do up to 10A.

https://banggood.com/Original-ZHIYU-60W-110W-9_99A-30V-Constant-Current-...

If you only want resistance:

https://ebay.ca/itm/Battery-Resistance-Voltmeter-Internal-Impedance-Mete...

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Agro wrote:
I measured resistance of nearly new VTC5A, fake VTC5A and suspected Lii-40A.
In order:
12 mOhm, 16 mOhm, 10 mOhm.

I guess those are 1KHz AC resistance figures, ¿doesn't it? Curious to see a higher figure for the VTC5A versus the Lii-40A, namely whereas its DC IR should be lower.

I do plan on accurately measuring cell DC IR with the aid of a precision power supply and a voltmeter with probes right at the battery terminals. Noting down the initial cell resting voltage, then proceeding to charge pump 5 - 10A of current into the battery for a brief timed lapse at which exact half time the loaded cell voltage is noted down. At last the final cell resting voltage is also taken into account (a tiny little while after the current is stopped to allow the voltage to settle). Cell DC IR is then calculated by substracting average cell resting voltage (½(Vrestinit + Vrestfinal)) from the loaded cell voltage to attain a dV value which is converted into the cell DC IR dividing it by the charge current value.

 

Cheers Party

Agro
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ActiveAl wrote:

Agro wrote:
I measured resistance of nearly new VTC5A, fake VTC5A and suspected Lii-40A. In order: 12 mOhm, 16 mOhm, 10 mOhm. Fakes are better than I expected. Lii-40A looks OK.

What instrument did you use to make these internal resistance measurements? I am trying to zero in on one that is relatively accurate – or at least consistent. Thanks!


Zanflare F1. I tried multiple insertions and here I show the best result.
I don’t trust the absolute values at all. But relative are usable. I should have made it clear…
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Measured a several cells of each in the Q8 mentioned above.  My some what aged and warn authentic 30Q cells pushed 21 amps and drifted to 20 amps at 30 seconds.  The LFS 30Q measured 18 amps at start up and then drifted down to 16 amps.  Lumens measured the differently too.  On average, the real 30Q’s had Lux started around 9.6K lux and drifted down to around 8.6K lux at 30 seconds.  The LFS cells stared around 8.6K lux and drifted down to 7.6K lux.  It’s clear to me that the chemistry in these cells are not authentic 30Q.


Both the authentic and LFS cells were warm after each test.

THANK YOU “ ImA4Wheelr “ for that test Beer

Next time a battery sale occurs and the price looks too good to be true, it’s very possible get Bamboozled.

Spend a few dollars more from reputable suppliers and you cannot go wrong.

Next time I try to warn others about possibly getting Bamboozled and another member here attempts to quieten me, I will not be silent.

CNC & Manual Machinist. Think outside the box too long , cannot find your way back in.

Good Intentions are no guarantee for Good Results.

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CNCman wrote:
[
Next time a battery sale occurs and the price looks too good to be true, it’s very possible get Bamboozled.

Spend a few dollars more from reputable suppliers and you cannot go wrong.

Next time I try to warn others about possibly getting Bamboozled and another member here attempts to quieten me, I will not be silent.

My last two dozen 18650’s I’ve bought from well-known US retailers. I’ve ordered plenty of cells from Chinese retailers, and for the most part I’ve received what appears to be genuine cells. But, there’s definitely a lot more risk from Chinese dealers, and they can produce pretty convincing fakes. When it comes to lithium-ion cells, I’ve decided that safety is more important than saving a few bucks. These cells will last for years or hundreds of cycles, so it’s only pennies per charge.

If I was buying disposable batteries, I might be more willing to take some risk to save a bit of money.

That said, I do think there are good Chinese retailers that sell genuine cells. But there’s also a risk that their suppliers may change and they could start getting fakes. It could happen to US retailers too, but I think (just my uninformed opinion) that the risk is less.

Also, the packaging I get when ordering from the US is far superior to the packaging I’ve got from Chinese dealers. Less chance of the cells getting knocked around and damaged in transit.

I’d order from Canadian retailers, but the selection sucks and the prices are double.

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@WalkIntotheLight, since our sellers suuuuuck, I would recommend buying this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Powerextra-Lithium-DCB205-2-DCD785C2-Batteries/dp/...

And prying the cells out.

Guess what I got? 10× 2800mAh 20A cells. They were actually legit cells, and tested between 2798mAh, and 2852mAh.

Absolutely awesome. The regular 18650 sellers are gouging us haaard.

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That’s what my eBay guy does he gets new brand name packs, from dewalt,kobalt,snapper,hoverboard batteries and strips them out and sells them.
Usually cheaper around 4 dollars a cell because a lot of people don’t like to buy cells with tab marks ke dremal marks grinding them off. The namebrands get the best batteries. The middle men who supply 99.9 percent of the market the grade flucatutes. https://youtu.be/r50HPv0SV18
Mooch has some on it there around the 5 minute mark. He has other videos explain how all true a grades go directly to oems. If anyones interested. You see it in his test every few months he will rerun new samples from illumn,imr, and others sellers. Like hg2 was originally a 20 amp cell to him. The last test months back it now reached its cdc at 19 amps now. Without his government equipment or hjks can’t really tell a difference.

Tool packs are the best way if you truly want best of batch. And when you can get them. A good sale or clearance on them you can rack up on cells. When they change out the displays they have to recycle the batteries with it. Doesn’t hurt to look. I found 2 new Milwaukee packs with 10 brand new 20r each a few ago.

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BlueSwordM, I ordered a Battery Resistance Voltmeter Internal Impedance Meter LCD Rechargeable SM8124A off of ebay a few days ago. it really an impedance meter or just a resistance meter? Thanks.

 

BlueSwordM
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It is an internal resistance meter as I said in another post.

Video about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5GFp8QBxP8

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BlueSwordM wrote:
@WalkIntotheLight, since our sellers suuuuuck, I would recommend buying this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Powerextra-Lithium-DCB205-2-DCD785C2-Batteries/dp/...

And prying the cells out.

Guess what I got? 10× 2800mAh 20A cells. They were actually legit cells, and tested between 2798mAh, and 2852mAh.

Absolutely awesome. The regular 18650 sellers are gouging us haaard.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————
and they even include gloves so you don’t gouge yourself while prying them out. Cash

BlueSwordM
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Ok wut. I just noticed! Damn.

I should order a second, and sell them for a 20% profit.

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CNCman wrote:
ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Measured a several cells of each in the Q8 mentioned above.  My some what aged and warn authentic 30Q cells pushed 21 amps and drifted to 20 amps at 30 seconds.  The LFS 30Q measured 18 amps at start up and then drifted down to 16 amps.  Lumens measured the differently too.  On average, the real 30Q's had Lux started around 9.6K lux and drifted down to around 8.6K lux at 30 seconds.  The LFS cells stared around 8.6K lux and drifted down to 7.6K lux.  It's clear to me that the chemistry in these cells are not authentic 30Q.

Both the authentic and LFS cells were warm after each test.

THANK YOU " ImA4Wheelr " for that test Beer Next time a battery sale occurs and the price looks too good to be true, it's very possible get Bamboozled. Spend a few dollars more from reputable suppliers and you cannot go wrong. Next time I try to warn others about possibly getting Bamboozled and another member here attempts to quieten me, I will not be silent.

Thanks for the advice, but I will pass.  I enjoy taking part in some of these "too good to be true deals".  Not trying to stop you from giving obvious advice to folks.  It might save some newbies from making a mistake.  But for the vast majority of us, we know exactly what we are doing and enjoy the wins and losses.  This case is definitely not a loss no matter which way AE rules.

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I have a dispute in progress and previously mentioned the comment from seller about false pictures for evidence (like others here) so I doubled down and found I could add 1 more photo making for a total of four. 

I then sent a message, presumably to the seller. Lin Zhang answered and I had just asked who the manufacturer of the batts are. One name was the response: Liitokala.

I haven't read every post in the forum but I'm a little confused what Liitokala is... an original manufacturer name (relatively new), a reseller, in this case for batteries, a rewrapper?

Thanks for a clarification. 

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BROODMASTER wrote:
… who the manufacturer of the batts are. One name was the response: Liitokala.

I haven't read every post in the forum but I'm a little confused what Liitokala is... an original manufacturer name (relatively new), a reseller, in this case for batteries, a rewrapper?

Thanks for a clarification. 

CONTACT US-Liitokala 官网 site

As far as my wisdom goes LiitoKala doesn't manufacture batteries/cells, they just rewrap. Thus, the “DongGuan battery factory” isn't a real battery factory but just a rewrapping center of some sort plus God knows what else, because their contact there “ZhangNi” is by no means this girl found depicted in their liitokala Official Store (link to this store can be found in their site at the bottom left LiitoKala® banner):

 

It seems this people needs a nice deal of speaking truth ethics. Their lies and slip-ups are blatantly noticed from this side of the Great Firewall. Their particular beliefs in these matters need a good fix. 

 

Cheers Party

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Dayaaammm

Look at that blonde chick Davie

BROODMASTER
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Her name is actually Elsa! Lol

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Señor Barkuti, Gracias! Falta piles originales!

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CJ Avlis wrote:
Hmmm…seems as though PayPal automatically escalated my case from a dispute up to a claim.

Full refund from PayPal.

Speed4goal
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CJ Avlis wrote:
CJ Avlis wrote:
Hmmm…seems as though PayPal automatically escalated my case from a dispute up to a claim.

Full refund from PayPal.

And you got the keep the cells. So not bad all in all. It sucks to not get 30qs but from the rough test I’ve seen they are worth 2.50 a cell. Would be good for powerbanks. Or lights around 5 or 6 amps. Definitely usable.

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Agro
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Good. Aliexpress steps in to my dispute today. Can’t wait…

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Nicolicous wrote:
Dayaaammm

Look at that blonde chick :}

I wouldn't say Elsa is blonde, that or she dyed her eyebrows and eyelashes of course. 

 

Cheers Smile

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CJ Avlis wrote:
CJ Avlis wrote:
Hmmm…seems as though PayPal automatically escalated my case from a dispute up to a claim.

Full refund from PayPal.

Should I dispute the purchase through AliExpress or through paypal?

BROODMASTER
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No one answer. They're reading these posts too! Shhhh. PM each other. Wink

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