WAVIEN collars are BACK! Are you interested? [group buy over]

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Enderman
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WAVIEN collars are BACK! Are you interested? [group buy over]
Yes, would buy one
38% (20 votes)
Yes, would buy 2-10
19% (10 votes)
Yes, would buy 10+
2% (1 vote)
Yes, would buy collar and possibly also a lens
17% (9 votes)
No, not for me
23% (12 votes)
Total votes: 52
Edited by: Enderman on 07/16/2018 - 09:11
Enderman
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After a long debate, they might come back!
My contact at Marinebeam has been negotiating with Meadowstar to make a limited run of collars.
These collars will cost about $50, but be even better quality than the previous wavien collars.
They are 32mm outer diameter 25mm inner diameter only (so the ‘small’ size), and have the same 60 degree opening because “wavien found it was a good compromise between performance and efficiency” as we predicted.
.
If you are interested please reply to the poll, they want to know approximately how many people are interested in buying, if enough people are interested they will do a limited production run.
They also have high quality 50mm aspheric lenses that they will sell, however they didn’t say the price.

This may be the last chance to get wavien collars affordably.
Optics companies like knight optical told me it would cost several thousand dollars to get some custom made by them even if they don’t have a cold mirror coating, just with cheap aluminum coating.
Getting them from a company like phoenix electroforms would also cost at least $1000 for a custom made mandrel.

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In case you are not familiar with what a wavien collar is or what it’s for:

A glass cold-mirror coated hemispherical reflector with a hole in it is placed above an LED, with the LED at the center of the ‘sphere’.
This more than doubles the intensity of the LED, for use with aspheric lens flashlights and superthrowers.
Due to double the intensity, it also doubles the light output from the lens.
This is called “light recycling technology” because without the collar, all the light emitted to the sides of the LED gets wasted by not hitting the lens.

nottawhackjob
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Ok that’s a good start.

I thought you were mainly interested in larger collars for your projects?

For me $50 for a 1” collar is a bit much however to gulp, swallow, but if this is as good as it gets then by all means peeps buy one.

I’m gonna wait until you go into producing these yourself so I can get a helluva BLF discount. LOL

Lumens is lumens. Lumens make money. So follow the money.

Enderman
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nottawhackjob wrote:
Ok that’s a good start.

I thought you were mainly interested in larger collars for your projects?

For me $50 for a 1” collar is a bit much however to gulp, swallow, but if this is as good as it gets then by all means peeps buy one.

I’m gonna wait until you go into producing these yourself so I can get a helluva BLF discount. LOL


I like larger ones, but they basically work the same and wouldn’t fit in many people’s flashlights.

I can’t produce them myself, it takes a lot of resources to make something of that quality, which is why knight optical told me it would cost several thousand for just one collar.
Also even if I could, I would get sued :/ so this is pretty much the only way to get them.

Virisenox_
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Enderman wrote:
They are 32mm outer diameter 25mm inner diameter only

What hosts would these work properly in? Would using them require making your own host?

Reviewer for ThorFire, Olight, Sofirn, and Folomov.

nottawhackjob
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So these are better than the previous ones.

Do you know what is/are the improvement(s)?

Lumens is lumens. Lumens make money. So follow the money.

Jtm94
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I’m also curious about these. Why this specific size? Does it fit in existing things or is this just a common size they had? Can a normal human use these or do I have to build this around precise measurements for it to be worth it?

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Virisenox_ wrote:

What hosts would these work properly in? Would using them require making your own host?

Any lens flashlight that has an area around the LED that can fit 32mm.
Of course you can make your own host if you want too.

nottawhackjob wrote:
So these are better than the previous ones.

Do you know what is/are the improvement(s)?


They mentioned that one of the issues with the previous collars was that to make the opening hole they sliced the top off the dome, which wasn’t ideal for concentricity.
Marinebeam isn’t the factory mass producing them so they don’t know how they changed the manufacturing process to fix that.
I assume other improvements like coating quality and stuff like that also apply, since they mentioned it is “a lot better”

Jtm94 wrote:
I’m also curious about these. Why this specific size? Does it fit in existing things or is this just a common size they had? Can a normal human use these or do I have to build this around precise measurements for it to be worth it?

I would suggest looking up some of the flashlight mods that use wavien collars on google.
This size is the same size as the old wavien collar ‘small’ version.
As long as you can fit it in the flashlight head you can simply use layers of tape to adjust the height, glue it in place, and then your aspheric thrower will have 2x the intensity.
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Height should be about sin(60) × 12.5mm = ≈10.825mm, doesn't it? Pretty compact.

I really don't know where to stick this in but I guess I'll end up coming up with something LoL.

Overseas shipping cost? 

 

Cheers Party

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Yup that should be about the height, maybe a few mm more if they’re cutting the hole at an angle rather than slicing.

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Enderman wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Ok that’s a good start.

I thought you were mainly interested in larger collars for your projects?

For me $50 for a 1” collar is a bit much however to gulp, swallow, but if this is as good as it gets then by all means peeps buy one.

I’m gonna wait until you go into producing these yourself so I can get a helluva BLF discount. LOL


I like larger ones, but they basically work the same and wouldn’t fit in many people’s flashlights.

I can’t produce them myself, it takes a lot of resources to make something of that quality, which is why knight optical told me it would cost several thousand for just one collar.
Also even if I could, I would get sued :/ so this is pretty much the only way to get them.


You would get sued for one piece?It reminds me Shakespeare’s “Merchant of Venice”… But who would learn that it was a replica?You could have bought it somehow.
nottawhackjob
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So you’re still negotiating, right?

Tell them that Notta’s offering 3 for $60 including shipping. (These are uber lightweight.)

This small size IMO warrants a better deal than 1 for $50. I’m messing around with head housings that are starting at 2 1/2 times this size.

What I don’t want to do is to get one set up right and then have to take it apart to the next experimentation.

Do they know how much hassle it can take to get focusing just right?

Who wants to mess with all that time wasted to set up the next one?

Point being this’ll cost me a lot more than $50 in my time to buy only one.

And I ain’t buying 3 @$50/each.

So if they’re looking at potential future business to accommodate those bigger head housings someday (and I bet others are thinking the same way) then they need to grease this first sled a bit better for me to want to ride the next one. If there is a next one. If there isn’t then I’m luke warmly interested in these dinky ones.

Davie

Lumens is lumens. Lumens make money. So follow the money.

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Is it bad of me to be thinking about spraying half a ping-pong ball with mirror paint?

nottawhackjob
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You just made me one good rib hurt. LOLBeer

Lumens is lumens. Lumens make money. So follow the money.

Enderman
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Theodore41 wrote:

You would get sued for one piece?It reminds me Shakespeare’s “Merchant of Venice”… But who would learn that it was a replica?You could have bought it somehow.

If I could somehow make them myself and just use them that would be fine.
If I sold them or sold flashlights that sued them that would be very illegal.

nottawhackjob wrote:
So you’re still negotiating, right?
Tell them that Notta’s offering 3 for $60 including shipping. (These are uber lightweight.)
This small size IMO warrants a better deal than 1 for $50. I’m messing around with head housings that are starting at 2 1/2 times this size.
What I don’t want to do is to get one set up right and then have to take it apart to the next experimentation.
Do they know how much hassle it can take to get focusing just right?
Who wants to mess with all that time wasted to set up the next one?
Point being this’ll cost me a lot more than $50 in my time to buy only one.
And I ain’t buying 3 @$50/each.
So if they’re looking at potential future business to accommodate those bigger head housings someday (and I bet others are thinking the same way) then they need to grease this first sled a bit better for me to want to ride the next one. If there is a next one. If there isn’t then I’m luke warmly interested in these dinky ones. Davie

They already agreed with the patent holder that they could produce some but wanted to first know how many people would be interested in buying.
It takes me about 5 minutes to focus my wavien collar, done it plenty of times.
The marginal improvement from a larger size doesn’t matter that much, it’s only a few percent.
The main point of a larger size is if you have stuff around the LED that need clearance, like soldered wires, huge die size, etc.
btw $56 is about the same price the old wavien small collars used to be.
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Phlogiston wrote:
Is it bad of me to be thinking about spraying half a ping-pong ball with mirror paint?

Google “DIY wavien collar” and there’s a thread on BLF about exactly that kind of stuff Wink
There’s nothing that even comes close to a cold-mirror coated glass reflector though.
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I have a built Uniquefire UF-1405 aspheric one of these might fit in. I may be in for one. I’ll have to think about it.

Does anyone have any experience sticking a wavien collar in this particular host?

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Enderman wrote:
… There's nothing that even comes close to a cold-mirror coated glass reflector though.

How about having half-sphere pieces of glass properly crafted and sliced, then outside spray painted with mirror effect spray LoL?

 

 

Cheers Party

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That is a special arrangement you made! Thumbs Up

I would buy one, and probably also a quality 50mm lens, but I would have to know the focal length and if the lens has a small rim to clamp it behind a bezel (and if the 50mm is measured with or without the rim). And the price must be reasonable of course.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?

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giorgoskok wrote:
Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?


Αmen George,amen. Smile
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giorgoskok wrote:
Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?


XHP35 Hi with its shiny surface may not be optimal, an oldschool dedomed XM-L2 or XP-G2 may show a better ‘wavien’ effect (and throw further anyway).

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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djozz wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?


XHP35 Hi with its shiny surface may not be optimal, an oldschool dedomed XM-L2 or XP-G2 may show a better ‘wavien’ effect (and throw further anyway).

Dedomed sst-40 could be a nice option then…

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giorgoskok wrote:
djozz wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?


XHP35 Hi with its shiny surface may not be optimal, an oldschool dedomed XM-L2 or XP-G2 may show a better ‘wavien’ effect (and throw further anyway).

Dedomed sst-40 could be a nice option then…


Possibly. I have not followed it well but has anyone measured the increase of throw of a dedomed SST-40 as opposed to one with dome on, and compared that to the throw increase of a XM-L2 ? Is it just as good? In other words: how good is the photon recycling effect in the SST-40? (the wavien collar uses the same effect).

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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djozz wrote:
That is a special arrangement you made! Thumbs Up

I would buy one, and probably also a quality 50mm lens, but I would have to know the focal length and if the lens has a small rim to clamp it behind a bezel (and if the 50mm is measured with or without the rim). And the price must be reasonable of course.

I would buy two and – same conditions as Djozz – a quality 50mm lens as well.

Would be excellent if thi came through!

Cheers,
Nico

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Great Enderman, thanks for doing this! I want one, maybe two if the price goes down.

I have a few questions regarding lenses and the collar:
What f-number should a Lens have for optimal performance (meaning it collects all of the light and there is no wasted lens diameter)?

I want to put the smallest possible lens on top of a small sized collar. It should be possible to glue it directly on top if the diameter is just slightly larger or if the lens has a rim?

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Thanks for arranging this! I would take one.

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Enderman wrote:
Phlogiston wrote:
Is it bad of me to be thinking about spraying half a ping-pong ball with mirror paint?
Google “DIY wavien collar” and there’s a thread on BLF about exactly that kind of stuff Wink

Some interesting reading there. Thank you Thumbs Up

I should have known someone on here would have thought of it before me Smile

Enderman wrote:
There’s nothing that even comes close to a cold-mirror coated glass reflector though.

Very true!

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Barkuti wrote:

How about having half-sphere pieces of glass properly crafted and sliced, then outside spray painted with mirror effect spray LoL?


 



 


Cheers Party


The mirror needs to be first surface, aka on the inside of the sphere, otherwise the glass will refract light and not just reflect.

djozz wrote:
That is a special arrangement you made! Thumbs Up

I would buy one, and probably also a quality 50mm lens, but I would have to know the focal length and if the lens has a small rim to clamp it behind a bezel (and if the 50mm is measured with or without the rim). And the price must be reasonable of course.


I assume it’s about F1, they said it’s high precision quality and won’t be that cheap either, but no idea about the price.
I can ask about the dimensions and if it has a rim and all that stuff.

giorgoskok wrote:
Blf GT with A037 lens and this wavien collar is a good combo ?

Stock led & driver will give >2mcd ?


Yeah for sure!

The_Driver wrote:
Great Enderman, thanks for doing this! I want one, maybe two if the price goes down.

I have a few questions regarding lenses and the collar:
What f-number should a Lens have for optimal performance (meaning it collects all of the light and there is no wasted lens diameter)?

I want to put the smallest possible lens on top of a small sized collar. It should be possible two glue it directly on top of the diameter is just slightly larger or it has a rim?


Marinebeam said that the 60 degree output is perfectly suited for F1 lenses, numerical aperture = 0.5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_aperture
I prefer to think of it this way:
“the ratio of the (back) focal length f to the diameter of the entrance pupil D:

N=f/D”

Enderman
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The_Driver wrote:
Great Enderman, thanks for doing this! I want one, maybe two if the price goes down.

I have a few questions regarding lenses and the collar:
What f-number should a Lens have for optimal performance (meaning it collects all of the light and there is no wasted lens diameter)?

I want to put the smallest possible lens on top of a small sized collar. It should be possible two glue it directly on top if the diameter is just slightly larger or if the lens has a rim?


I actually also really want a compact EDC flashlight with a wavien collar Silly
Since the collar is 32mm OD the smallest lens I would go with is also 32mm, since going smaller wouldn’t reduce the size of the light any more.

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