One other thing: would you prefer better spring mechanical properties using Beryllium Copper 38% IACS C17530, or slightly better conductivity using Beryllium Copper 45% IACS C17510?
I would like to know your choices.
I though it was about providing a better spring than the existing 45% option.
Not only larger bit with better mechanical properties. (Main factor for a spring!)
So that would mean de slightly lower conducting 38%. It has still awesome current capabilities, enough for most of the builds.
No limit. 1000pcs is just the minimum order. The more spring we can get manufactured though, the lower the price per spring will be.
Bulk purchases really help getting the cost down by a huge factor.
When I had the djozz springs made a few years ago by the Tevema factory, the price break for bulk purchase (20 cents! instead of a dollar) was 2000 springs. At the time there was no way there would be interest enough for 2000 springs so I did not dare to go for that number. I’m glad that the interest is so high this time, that helps enormously for the price!
BlueSwordM wrote:
List has been updated.
One other thing: would you prefer better spring mechanical properties using Beryllium Copper 38% IACS C17530, or slightly better conductivity using Beryllium Copper 45% IACS C17510?
I would like to know your choices.
Please please go for the better mechanical properties, the intl-outdoor spring works fine for such a short spring with little travel but a longer spring of the same material will fail bigtime mechanically.
“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.” (Gus Speth)
@teacher, I was just checking with the community to see if they wanted something else.
This past, I spent a lot of time during my free time during research about which type of beryllium copper that we could use in a spring application.
There are other types of beryllium copper that would be even better suited to a spring. However, they only have 22% IACS, and therefore, not worth the money over a phosphor bronze B-2 spring at 19% IACS.
There is 60% IACS beryllium copper that can be used. However, it is too rigid and its module of elasticity in tension is lower than 38% IACS Beryllium Copper, so not as good for a spring.
TLDR: 38% IACS Beryllium Copper C17530 is best suited for this application.
The springs will be “gold plated” in other words gold color?
In a build what do you think its better to use big spring in driver or in tailcap?
Using the big and the small in a flashlight will be too tight?
Use the small spring on drivers that have components on the back of them. A Simple FET+1 driver doesnt have any components on the back so you can use a big spring. A driver with a half dozen 7135 modules on both sides will require this skinny spring so it wont interfere with those components
1. Gold plated= gold color and gold plating for corrosion resistance
We will be using a zinc plating as it has a bit lower cost, and still good corrosion characteristics and a nice silver look, which I prefer over a gold plating.
2. Big springs almost always used in the tailcap, and small springs are used on the driver, as the contact pad of the drivers are usually way too small for such a large spring at the base(9mm), and not interference with small components.
3. No it will not be too tight. This is why dual beryllium copper springs are the grail of flashlights. It allows for universal cell compatibility, and shock absorption, compared to a single spring and a brass button, which upon a large enough shock, it will transfer the kinetic energy to the cell, and may collapse the terminal. This is no problem for a dual spring light. Most springs can’t provide low enough resistance for high power lights, but using beryllium copper 38% IACS mitigates this.
@teacher, I was just checking with the community to see if they wanted something else.
This past, I spent a lot of time during my free time during research about which type of beryllium copper that we could use in a spring application.
There are other types of beryllium copper that would be even better suited to a spring. However, they only have 22% IACS, and therefore, not worth the money over a phosphor bronze B-2 spring at 19% IACS.
There is 60% IACS beryllium copper that can be used. However, it is too rigid and its module of elasticity in tension is lower than 38% IACS Beryllium Copper, so not as good for a spring.
TLDR: 38% IACS Beryllium Copper C17530 is best suited for this application.
Good info BlueSwordM. .. Thanks again for doing this!!!
—
You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
Nothing that is even measurable at all. It’s just a coating, between 0,75um and 1,25um, or 0,00075mm-00125mm.
The coating is so thin it does not affect electrical characteristics at all.
Nickel could be used, but zinc does actually protect the metal more from corrosion more than nickel, is less expensive, and actually has 5% more conductivity than nickel(27% vs 22%).
TLDR: For springs, zinc and gold are probably the best bet, but zinc spring is cheaper and still great, so we are going with this,
I will request a sample. I do have confidence in the supplier though.
They have had a factory for 10 years on their page, and 19 years in total.
I will ask a sample for 10pcs, though it is going to be expensive.
.
.
After going through many similar projects I would feel much better seeing the final product tested by a BLF member before we go plunging into a group buy.
.
.
BlueSwordM wrote:
If there are any springs left, if any، I will give the rest to Richard at MtnElectronics and will point him to my supplier so we can get these springs all year long.
.
.
If that is information your willing to share I would also be interested. I have considered having batches made in XYZ sizes many times. If Richard is just special I understand though, he holds a pretty warm place in my heart too
.
.
BlueSwordM wrote:
Would you prefer a gold plating instead
Gold would be my first choice.. Did they give a price? I can live with zinc. As long as we are absolutely sure to get something besides bare copper…..
.
.
djozz wrote:
When I had the djozz springs made a few years ago by the Tevema factory, the price break for bulk purchase (20 cents! instead of a dollar) was 2000 springs. At the time there was no way there would be interest enough for 2000 springs so I did not dare to go for that number. I’m glad that the interest is so high this time, that helps enormously for the price! :-).
djozz wrote:
Please please go for the better mechanical properties, the intl-outdoor spring works fine for such a short spring with little travel but a longer spring of the same material will fail bigtime mechanically.
.
.
If there is a price break like that at 2000pc I would also be very interested to know. And +1 for the mechanical properties.
.
.
Finally, thank you so much for doing this BlueSwordM!!! Put me down for 100 + 100. If there is a significant price drop at 2000pc as mentioned above I’d be in for a lot more.
—
In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.
1. The supplier is not very keen on providing samples with less than a 1000 springs. I will take the plunge for the purchase, but that means I will not be able to start the real group buy in 3 weeks to amass the necessary hobby funds to fund this project, if the demand grows to say 2000 springs.
However, if I can get a sample of something like 10 springs, that problem could easily be solved as that would prove they are good suppliers and good springs.
2. Yes, ASF, I will contact you too so you can sell springs at your store too, once the group buy is over. Spring bypasses are great, but they require so much work and time, so very high current springs are a blessing.
3. Yes they did give a price. And the gold coating is about 5% more expensive. And I also prefer a silver look compared to gold for some reason
4. 2000pcs should be even less expensive per spring. It will be amazing if I can reach a price of 0,25$US per spring, or even lower.
Finally, you are very welcome. I am very honored for you to be thankful to me, vesture of blood. And, added 100 small springs and 100 big springs. I think I’ll have to halt the group buy interest list soon enough though at a total of 2000pcs, including the big and small springs.
A pre-made sample of the same material even if not the exact dimensions costs them nothing. Just to be able to check the fit and finish and material. I don’t think anyone would hold it against you if you wanted to assume less risk and press them on this issue, I certainly would.
BlueSwordM it looks to me like making 2000 large and 1000 small would be pretty easy to do, especially if there’s a bigger price break at 2000.
Might help if you contact them and find out the difference. I know for myself if they are cheaper each piece I’m going to up my order a little more. The main thing being if they are really good, everyone’s gonna want them. You really need to test samples even if there something they have surplus from another order. Just my two cents
Thanks for doing the GB.
Use the small spring on drivers that have components on the back of them. A Simple FET+1 driver doesnt have any components on the back so you can use a big spring. A driver with a half dozen 7135 modules on both sides will require this skinny spring so it wont interfere with those components
Problem its that if you use a big spring ( if driver can like fet+1) in both sides theres will be too tight for the battery.
BlueSwordM wrote:
1. Gold plated= gold color and gold plating for corrosion resistance
We will be using a zinc plating as it has a bit lower cost, and still good corrosion characteristics and a nice silver look, which I prefer over a gold plating.
2. Big springs almost always used in the tailcap, and small springs are used on the driver, as the contact pad of the drivers are usually way too small for such a large spring at the base(9mm), and not interference with small components.
3. No it will not be too tight. This is why dual beryllium copper springs are the grail of flashlights. It allows for universal cell compatibility, and shock absorption, compared to a single spring and a brass button, which upon a large enough shock, it will transfer the kinetic energy to the cell, and may collapse the terminal. This is no problem for a dual spring light. Most springs can’t provide low enough resistance for high power lights, but using beryllium copper 38% IACS mitigates this.
I preffer gold color, but its ok
In drivers that can use 9mm base spring theres will be better to use in driver side and in tail side also but its too tight So.. what about a copy of fasttech carobronce spring but in Beryllium Copper and gold plated?
I think its a very usefull size for both: driver and tailcap.
Question: the elasticity of this Beryllium Copper 38% is good? are not very soft?
1. Hmm I have not thought about a copy of the Fasttech Carobronze spring, but with BeCu 38% IACS.
2. The elasticity of 38% IACS Beryllium Copper is better than 45% IACS as it is less rigid, and has a lower chance of deflection and collapsing.
You are welcome
Also, guys, I do not know if I understood it well from one of my suppliers or not.
But APPARENTLY, I hope I am not wrong, but holy crap, I hope I understand it well, the supplier said that 2000 big springs of Beryllium Copper 38% IACS would cost, with DHL shipping:
350$US. 350 AMERICAN DOLLARS. NOT CANADIAN DOLLARYDOOS.
350$US. The cost price per spring sold, with shipping, could probably be lower than 0,30$US!
The price IS NOT FINAL
I will check with my supplier if the price is correct or not. If it is, then hallelujah!
Also, BTW, they have accepted to send 10pcs sample for 100$ US. So as expected.
I will test the samples when they get there, and see what kind of resistance they have, and comparing them to djozz’s springs testing.
List updated.
1011 big springs and 452 small springs.
45% is the point of the group buy
Is it?
I though it was about providing a better spring than the existing 45% option.
Not only larger bit with better mechanical properties. (Main factor for a spring!)
So that would mean de slightly lower conducting 38%. It has still awesome current capabilities, enough for most of the builds.
When I had the djozz springs made a few years ago by the Tevema factory, the price break for bulk purchase (20 cents! instead of a dollar) was 2000 springs. At the time there was no way there would be interest enough for 2000 springs so I did not dare to go for that number. I’m glad that the interest is so high this time, that helps enormously for the price!
Please please go for the better mechanical properties, the intl-outdoor spring works fine for such a short spring with little travel but a longer spring of the same material will fail bigtime mechanically.
link to djozz tests
“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.” (Gus Speth)
In for 10 big springs
As thijsco19 & djozz said…. the better spring mechanical properties using Beryllium Copper 38% IACS C17530 is surely the way to go.
I was thinking this was already decided?? But either way…. please do go for the better mechanical properties of the 38%.
Thank you for doing this Group Buy also!!
. 
You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
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@teacher, I was just checking with the community to see if they wanted something else.
This past, I spent a lot of time during my free time during research about which type of beryllium copper that we could use in a spring application.
There are other types of beryllium copper that would be even better suited to a spring. However, they only have 22% IACS, and therefore, not worth the money over a phosphor bronze B-2 spring at 19% IACS.
There is 60% IACS beryllium copper that can be used. However, it is too rigid and its module of elasticity in tension is lower than 38% IACS Beryllium Copper, so not as good for a spring.
TLDR: 38% IACS Beryllium Copper C17530 is best suited for this application.
Some questions:
The springs will be “gold plated” in other words gold color?
In a build what do you think its better to use big spring in driver or in tailcap?
Using the big and the small in a flashlight will be too tight?
Thanks
Use the small spring on drivers that have components on the back of them. A Simple FET+1 driver doesnt have any components on the back so you can use a big spring. A driver with a half dozen 7135 modules on both sides will require this skinny spring so it wont interfere with those components
1. Gold plated= gold color and gold plating for corrosion resistance
We will be using a zinc plating as it has a bit lower cost, and still good corrosion characteristics and a nice silver look, which I prefer over a gold plating.
2. Big springs almost always used in the tailcap, and small springs are used on the driver, as the contact pad of the drivers are usually way too small for such a large spring at the base(9mm), and not interference with small components.
3. No it will not be too tight. This is why dual beryllium copper springs are the grail of flashlights. It allows for universal cell compatibility, and shock absorption, compared to a single spring and a brass button, which upon a large enough shock, it will transfer the kinetic energy to the cell, and may collapse the terminal. This is no problem for a dual spring light. Most springs can’t provide low enough resistance for high power lights, but using beryllium copper 38% IACS mitigates this.
You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
Texas Lumens Flashlights <> M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$ ||||
Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???
/\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal
Thank you again teacher.
I would like to add that I also searched for brass springs, but they would probably collapse instantly if a tube were over tightened.
Zinc plating? Really? How much will that change the overall electrical resistance of the spring?
Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand
You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
Texas Lumens Flashlights <> M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$ ||||
Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???
/\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal
@DavidEF
Nothing that is even measurable at all. It’s just a coating, between 0,75um and 1,25um, or 0,00075mm-00125mm.
The coating is so thin it does not affect electrical characteristics at all.
Nickel could be used, but zinc does actually protect the metal more from corrosion more than nickel, is less expensive, and actually has 5% more conductivity than nickel(27% vs 22%).
TLDR: For springs, zinc and gold are probably the best bet, but zinc spring is cheaper and still great, so we are going with this,
.
.
After going through many similar projects I would feel much better seeing the final product tested by a BLF member before we go plunging into a group buy.
.
.
.
.
If that is information your willing to share I would also be interested. I have considered having batches made in XYZ sizes many times. If Richard is just special I understand though, he holds a pretty warm place in my heart too
.
.
Gold would be my first choice.. Did they give a price? I can live with zinc. As long as we are absolutely sure to get something besides bare copper…..
.
.
.
.
If there is a price break like that at 2000pc I would also be very interested to know. And +1 for the mechanical properties.
.
.
Finally, thank you so much for doing this BlueSwordM!!! Put me down for 100 + 100. If there is a significant price drop at 2000pc as mentioned above I’d be in for a lot more.
In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.
+1. Thanks again for the effort.
My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.
Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife.
djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".
old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".
Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.
1. The supplier is not very keen on providing samples with less than a 1000 springs. I will take the plunge for the purchase, but that means I will not be able to start the real group buy in 3 weeks to amass the necessary hobby funds to fund this project, if the demand grows to say 2000 springs.
However, if I can get a sample of something like 10 springs, that problem could easily be solved as that would prove they are good suppliers and good springs.
2. Yes, ASF, I will contact you too so you can sell springs at your store too, once the group buy is over. Spring bypasses are great, but they require so much work and time, so very high current springs are a blessing.
3. Yes they did give a price. And the gold coating is about 5% more expensive. And I also prefer a silver look compared to gold for some reason
4. 2000pcs should be even less expensive per spring. It will be amazing if I can reach a price of 0,25$US per spring, or even lower.
Finally, you are very welcome. I am very honored for you to be thankful to me, vesture of blood. And, added 100 small springs and 100 big springs. I think I’ll have to halt the group buy interest list soon enough though at a total of 2000pcs, including the big and small springs.
A pre-made sample of the same material even if not the exact dimensions costs them nothing. Just to be able to check the fit and finish and material. I don’t think anyone would hold it against you if you wanted to assume less risk and press them on this issue, I certainly would.
The only problem would be that since beryllium copper is not usually used for battery springs, there is a minimum order quantity going on.
I already have a spring with about the same dimensions, but only in phosphor bronze. That is the Kaidomain phosphor bronze spring in the picture.
Other than the material and 2.2x the electrical conductivity, there should be no difference between the two.
Nevertheless, I will ask again.
I really hope it goes well.
In for 30 of the smaller springs also.
May do more of both if we hit 2000(?) and see a price break.
If we do hit 2000pcs total, and I receive a sample from my supplier, yes, we will go above that amount, and see a price break.
BlueSwordM it looks to me like making 2000 large and 1000 small would be pretty easy to do, especially if there’s a bigger price break at 2000.
Might help if you contact them and find out the difference. I know for myself if they are cheaper each piece I’m going to up my order a little more. The main thing being if they are really good, everyone’s gonna want them. You really need to test samples even if there something they have surplus from another order. Just my two cents
Thanks for doing the GB.
I have already contacted them. It just takes time for them to respond.
And I will probably make 2000 big springs and 2000 small springs so they get even cheaper each
And when I get a sample, then the group buy is going to commence.
Also, thanks for the encouragement.
put me down for 10 big 10 small
The list has been updated again.
I hate to say it again, but I am absolutely impressed by the feedback of the community.
Also, what kind of name would you like for this spring?
I have thought about the BLF ULPS, being the BLF Ultimate High Power Spring.
Is that good name? What do you suggest?
Finally, I will test the conductivity of the spring when I get it, and how well it holds up under stress.
Name??? Why would you name a spring?
Call it the ‘BSM/blf Special’…..
.. 
You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
Texas Lumens Flashlights <> M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$ ||||
Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???
/\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal
Problem its that if you use a big spring ( if driver can like fet+1) in both sides theres will be too tight for the battery.
I preffer gold color, but its ok
In drivers that can use 9mm base spring theres will be better to use in driver side and in tail side also but its too tight So.. what about a copy of fasttech carobronce spring but in Beryllium Copper and gold plated?
I think its a very usefull size for both: driver and tailcap.
Question: the elasticity of this Beryllium Copper 38% is good? are not very soft?
Thanks for this BlueSwordM
1. Hmm I have not thought about a copy of the Fasttech Carobronze spring, but with BeCu 38% IACS.
2. The elasticity of 38% IACS Beryllium Copper is better than 45% IACS as it is less rigid, and has a lower chance of deflection and collapsing.
You are welcome
Also, guys, I do not know if I understood it well from one of my suppliers or not.
But APPARENTLY, I hope I am not wrong, but holy crap, I hope I understand it well, the supplier said that 2000 big springs of Beryllium Copper 38% IACS would cost, with DHL shipping:
350$US. 350 AMERICAN DOLLARS. NOT CANADIAN DOLLARYDOOS.
350$US. The cost price per spring sold, with shipping, could probably be lower than 0,30$US!
The price IS NOT FINAL
I will check with my supplier if the price is correct or not. If it is, then hallelujah!
Also, BTW, they have accepted to send 10pcs sample for 100$ US. So as expected.
I will test the samples when they get there, and see what kind of resistance they have, and comparing them to djozz’s springs testing.
Edit: The sample will add to the final price:
350$US+100$US = 450$US
Still, that is a crazy good price.
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