BLF Interest list for Very High Current Beryllium Copper springs

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BlueSwordM
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It is safe yes in a flashlight yes. I’ve made the research about it, and unless you sharpen the spring or melt down the spring for some reason, there should be nothing to worry about at all. I do get the concern though, but there is no risk of that in a flashlight. And since we don’t use lasers to make springs, that is not a problem too.

BlueSwordM
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Guys, I finally recovered the information I was looking for when talking about which battery spring material to use in terms of elasticity and YIELD STRENGTH!

Elasticity is good, but since all beryllium coppers feature about the same elasticity +/- 2%, I will leave that out.

What really matters is yield strength, which is how much force a material in spring form can sustain before resulting in a plastic deformation, such as the in the Intl Outdoor BeCu 45% IACS spring.

Here is some data about it:

Steel is the strongest at 1700MPa Typical

Phosphor bronze is in the middle at 895Mpa Typical

Beryllium Copper C17530 38% IACS is a bit behind at 820Mpa Typical

Beryllium Copper C17500 45% IACS is quite a lot behind at 620-680Mpa Typical

As you can see, the reason for the BeCU 45% IACS Intl Outdoor spring for failing in djozz’s tests is that it can’t resist as much to a deformation as well as the others, resulting in a quite a bit higher chance of plastic deformation such as the previously mentioned djozz spring test.

Mr.Scott
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DavidEF wrote:
If the price per spring is more than double for quantity of 1000 versus 2000, then it is ridiculous to buy 1000 and pay actually more for fewer springs. For instance, if the price is $0.175/ea for 2000pcs but it is $0.50/ea for 1000pcs, the real total cost is $350 for 2000pcs but it is $500 for 1000pcs! There is no sense paying more for the privilege of receiving less! I’m not saying this is the actual cost per 1000. I’m just saying that if the difference is double or more, it doesn’t make sense at all to do it. From that, you can calculate the highest “premium” that would make any sense to buy, being $0.345/ea for 1000, or just under double price. Then again, you’d still have to be silly to pay such a difference, IMHO. But, if we use that number, the total cost for 2000 lg + 1000 sm springs can’t be more than $350 + $345 (+ $100 for samples) = $795 TOTAL! That makes the average price of a spring just a bit over $0.26/ea plus shipping from Bluesword to each of the group buy participants. The more you buy as an individual, the lower your per-spring cost will be!

Yes, but the cost of $0.26 assumes all are sold. Not fair if Bluesword gets stuck holding unsold springs. If this was a business, that is one of the risks, but since this is a group buy we should consider sharing the cost of unsold stock. Just not sure how to do that fairly.

Mr.Scott
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djozz wrote:
I’m a bit conservative, I will wait for the sample test. If they work out well I like to ‘upgrade to 20’small 20 large. And if the samples appear not good enough to go for the large order, I’m happy to donate a few dollars to compensate for the sample costs.

I agree.

If the sample test works I’ll take 30 large and 30 small. If the test doesn’t look good then I’ll kick in some to help with the sample.

gisewhcs
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Same here. If the samples are not as expected I would spend a few dollars to get the sample costs covered.

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/\ Thumbs Up

moderator007
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I’m in for helping cover the sample cost if the turn out to be crap Big Smile .

vinte77
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moderator007 wrote:
I’m in for helping cover the sample cost if the turn out to be crap Big Smile .

Same here, let us know.

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vinte77 wrote:
moderator007 wrote:
I’m in for helping cover the sample cost if the turn out to be crap Big Smile .

Same here, let us know.


yes as well.

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

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djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

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khas
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Please put me down for 30 of each, and if they turn out to be made of old paperclips, I’ll be happy send some money to help cover sample costs as well.

Thank you for setting this up Thumbs Up

BlueSwordM
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Wow.

I never expected such support.

Now, if 5$/spring do not turn out to be the bee’s knees, I will be quite angry.

I do doubt they would risk their reputation however for such a purchase, especially since it is really easy to check if the samples are crap using a multimeter and a power supply.

One last thing before I make the final request and pay for the samples: are there any parts/products you would like to have in a group buy?

Just a question, but seeing the potential of a group buy for us getting things at a much lower cost than initially possible makes me happy.

joechina
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djozz wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
joechina wrote:
Interested in 10 big an 10 small springs
Not picking on you. I know there are valid reasons for buying just a few rather than a lot more. But, according to my calculations above, based on what BlueSwordM has said about pricing so far, your shipping will be almost double what you’re paying for the springs themselves for such a small quantity.
I do not know about Canada but when I shipped my springs a few years ago it was just about 3 dollar worldwide including bubble mailer (up to about 20 springs). You just do not want to get into tracking and such but the value is low enough to accept some risk.

Well I never modded springs. But I think it would be good to have a few good ones in the part drawer.
I am only willing to pay 15 Euros incl shipping for stuff I don’t see a use now.

Texas_Ace
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Very nice springs. I am sure this has been answered but is there a reason you stuck with 1mm thick?

I would be in for 100 of them myself. Possibly more if I have the funds at that time and depending on what the final test works out to.

BlueSwordM
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Two reasons actually:

1. I could go with 1.1mm or 1.2mm wire. However, the 1.1mm wire is a non standard option, so it will cost more to manufacture. But the 1.2mm wire has the same cost, so no problem there.

2. 1mm wire is already very thick for a battery spring, compared to most springs on the market already. Going with a 1.2mm wire, while better on the current handling side, will make the spring mechanically weaker.

There is a reason: free length between coils. This is for non-plastic deformation to occur at a certain compression force.

If the wire is too thick, what will happen is that under a deformation is that there’s a possibility of coils touching each other. This can end in two things: either the spring collapses at that point, or worse, the spring is stressed in a horizontal way, which will permanently deform the spring.

Either way, a thicker spring at a small size will be mechanically weaker, and since 1mm thick springs are already thicker than most springs on the market and at 38% IACS, its ability to handle current will be very high, probably 14-15A+

Texas_Ace
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Two reasons actually:

1. I could go with 1.1mm or 1.2mm wire. However, the 1.1mm wire is a non standard option, so it will cost more to manufacture. But the 1.2mm wire has the same cost, so no problem there.

2. 1mm wire is already very thick for a battery spring, compared to most springs on the market already. Going with a 1.2mm wire, while better on the current handling side, will make the spring mechanically weaker.

There is a reason: free length between coils. This is for non-plastic deformation to occur at a certain compression force.

If the wire is too thick, what will happen is that under a deformation is that there’s a possibility of coils touching each other. This can end in two things: either the spring collapses at that point, or worse, the spring is stressed in a horizontal way, which will permanently deform the spring.

Either way, a thicker spring at a small size will be mechanically weaker.

Makes sense, 1mm should work for most small lights that don’t see more then 15A

BlueSwordM
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Yeah. I’ll probably do a comparison of all the springs I currently own, which is the Fasttech Carobronze spring, the Kaidomain Phosphor Bronze Spring, and soon enough, the BLF BSM U-Spring.

From my calculations, it should handle 14-15A before it has a voltage drop of 0,100V occurs, but I will have to confirm that once I receive them.

They are looking to be quite promising.

joechina
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Wikipedia says you shouldn’t grind CuBe without respirator.

I found also regulations for beryllium powder:
http://gestis-en.itrust.de/nxt/gateway.dll/gestis_en/008020.xml?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0
Capter regulation seems worth a read. The rest I mostly don’t understand.

So do we need a saftey note for the springs, if somebody cut them with a Dremel?

DB Custom
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Use wire snips to cut them, why on earth would anyone try to grind a springy spring? Silly

I don’t have immediate funds for this but in the next couple of weeks I should… if that is ok I’d like to speak up for…
100 large and 50 small please.

If we have leftover’s I’d probably help you (and me) out there and buy more as well, all dependent of course on the testing of the samples.

The CaroBronze springs aggravate me as they don’t take solder well and are so stiff. The heavier Intl-Outdoor spring collapses under heavy loads (high current) and is difficult to bypass because of the thick wire and short height. So yes, I would like to stock my parts box with these more ideal BSL LS springs. Big Smile

Thanks JoeChina for making me think about this more… Wink

Dale

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Maybe we can get up an accompanying Group Buy for those that have real concerns about the safety of these springs or might want to (for reasons unknown) cut them in a manner that would create & cause dust.

I present…….. ‘The BLF Respirator’.
.

.
Thumbs Up .. Big Smile .. Big Smile .. Wink
.
Optional Full Facemask model…..

.
Or…. be the first on your block to be completely protected from BLF BSM U-Spring dust!

…..
…….
…..

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BlueSwordM
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Huh? The Carobronze springs are stiff? It has been the opposite experience for me.

And why would you cut springs with a dremel?

And the Intl Outdoor spring will almost always end up in a plastic deformation after being deformed, as the Beryllium Copper used in this spring has the weakest yield strength of all BeCus, no matter the current you pass through them. It is a great spring for IntlOutdoor lights, but not most other lights.

And you have been added to the interest list DB Custom.

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Oh, I didn’t realize there were 2 sizes, yeah I will take 40 small springs as well.

DB Custom
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Teacher, you forgot the link on the full face model. Wink

Seriously, that is something I can see coming in very handy!

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:
Teacher, you forgot the link on the full face model. Wink

Seriously, that is something I can see coming in very handy!

Sorry my friend, no links were provided on any. Big Smile

Yep…. That full face mask could come in real handy from time to time. I just use my half respirator & a face shield in those situations now. BUT that combo is awkward & clumsy. Facepalm

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DavidEF
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Mr.Scott wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
If the price per spring is more than double for quantity of 1000 versus 2000, then it is ridiculous to buy 1000 and pay actually more for fewer springs. For instance, if the price is $0.175/ea for 2000pcs but it is $0.50/ea for 1000pcs, the real total cost is $350 for 2000pcs but it is $500 for 1000pcs! There is no sense paying more for the privilege of receiving less! I’m not saying this is the actual cost per 1000. I’m just saying that if the difference is double or more, it doesn’t make sense at all to do it. From that, you can calculate the highest “premium” that would make any sense to buy, being $0.345/ea for 1000, or just under double price. Then again, you’d still have to be silly to pay such a difference, IMHO. But, if we use that number, the total cost for 2000 lg + 1000 sm springs can’t be more than $350 + $345 (+ $100 for samples) = $795 TOTAL! That makes the average price of a spring just a bit over $0.26/ea plus shipping from Bluesword to each of the group buy participants. The more you buy as an individual, the lower your per-spring cost will be!

Yes, but the cost of $0.26 assumes all are sold. Not fair if Bluesword gets stuck holding unsold springs. If this was a business, that is one of the risks, but since this is a group buy we should consider sharing the cost of unsold stock. Just not sure how to do that fairly.


Yeah, I wouldn’t suggest he pass them on at that price, especially since he has to do all the re-packing and shipping. I also don’t like the idea of GB participants paying for ALL the springs, leaving so many extras that are “free”. I’d say that somewhere in the middle is a fair price, but I don’t pretend to know what that is. Oops

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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DB Custom
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He’s not going to get stuck holding extra’s. I promise you that. Several of us here will up our ante in the long game and there won’t be anything left. By the time that all get’s sorted out and he see’s what is left I’ll know if I can take an extra hundred, or two. Some other’s will do the same thing, problem solved.

If this were tax return time I might be prone to buy a thousand myself. Wink Of course, it’s not, monies are all more tightly controlled right now and we have to start thinking about Christmas soon. (I know, right?)

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:
He’s not going to get stuck holding extra’s. I promise you that. Several of us here will up our ante in the long game and there won’t be anything left. By the time that all get’s sorted out and he see’s what is left I’ll know if I can take an extra hundred, or two. Some other’s will do the same thing, problem solved.
Exactly…. Thumbs Up

DB Custom wrote:

If this were tax return time I might be prone to buy a thousand myself. Wink Of course, it’s not, monies are all more tightly controlled right now and we have to start thinking about Christmas soon. (I know, right?)
WELL…… you could always get yourself a thousand or two & use them as stocking stuffers…. your stocking of course. Wink

Maybe give the ‘little woman’ a thousand too……. hide a piece of jewelry for her in the springs & you might actually get away with that. Big Smile . Wink

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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indeed, if there are some left over I could easily order quite a few more myself. Heck if I have the money I plan to order extras as it is. Just waiting for things to settle down so I can see how much I can afford.

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My initial request (20+20) was based on my available hobby funds, but if the price drops from the original estimate or ther are some surplus springs I’d love to get a few more. The prospect of never bypassing another spring is very appealing.

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I’m sorry I haven’t read this thread, just post 1.

I wanted to ask if the large spring is going to be 7 mm on the top and 9 mm on the bottom? Typically you would want to get a smaller top so that you have more of a tapered shape. This will allow the spring to partially compress into itself allowing for a shorter compressed height and allowing a wider range of battery lengths to fit. When the spring is shaped more like a cylinder you just don’t get as much compression from it.

If this has already been discussed, just ignore my post above. Thanks

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OK then.

You are lucky that I will only order the samples Thursday.

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