BLF Interest list for Very High Current Beryllium Copper springs

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teacher
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JasonWW wrote:
I’m sorry I haven’t read this thread, just post 1.

I wanted to ask if the large spring is going to be 7 mm on the top and 9 mm on the bottom? Typically you would want to get a smaller top so that you have more of a tapered shape. This will allow the spring to partially compress into itself allowing for a shorter compressed height and allowing a wider range of battery lengths to fit. When the spring is shaped more like a cylinder you just don’t get as much compression from it.

If this has already been discussed, just ignore my post above. Thanks

Yep… from the OP.
  • - Spring upper diameter: 7mm
  • - Spring base diameter: 9mm
  • - Spring thickness: 1mm
  • - Spring height: 12mm
  • - Plating: Zinc plating

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JasonWW
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teacher wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
I’m sorry I haven’t read this thread, just post 1.

I wanted to ask if the large spring is going to be 7 mm on the top and 9 mm on the bottom? Typically you would want to get a smaller top so that you have more of a tapered shape. This will allow the spring to partially compress into itself allowing for a shorter compressed height and allowing a wider range of battery lengths to fit. When the spring is shaped more like a cylinder you just don’t get as much compression from it.

If this has already been discussed, just ignore my post above. Thanks

Yep… from the OP.
  • - Spring upper diameter: 7mm
  • - Spring base diameter: 9mm
  • - Spring thickness: 1mm
  • - Spring height: 12mm
  • - Plating: Zinc plating

No one in 180 posts has suggested to make the big spring have a 5mm top diameter?

Doing so might allow an extra millimeter or two longer battery to fit.

It’s something to think about (assuming the company is capable of doing it).

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I would just cut off a coil if the cell was too long or if it looked like there would be issues. By cutting off a coil (or two) at the wide base the overall length would be shortened and the cell length wouldn’t be as critical.

Then again, I tend to forget what I’ve found to be optimal and find a new solution every time the problem arises…

Dale

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JasonWW wrote:
teacher wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
I’m sorry I haven’t read this thread, just post 1.

I wanted to ask if the large spring is going to be 7 mm on the top and 9 mm on the bottom? Typically you would want to get a smaller top so that you have more of a tapered shape. This will allow the spring to partially compress into itself allowing for a shorter compressed height and allowing a wider range of battery lengths to fit. When the spring is shaped more like a cylinder you just don’t get as much compression from it.

If this has already been discussed, just ignore my post above. Thanks

Yep… from the OP.
  • - Spring upper diameter: 7mm
  • - Spring base diameter: 9mm
  • - Spring thickness: 1mm
  • - Spring height: 12mm
  • - Plating: Zinc plating

No one in 180 posts has suggested to make the big spring have a 5mm top diameter?

Doing so might allow an extra millimeter or two longer battery to fit.

It’s something to think about (assuming the company is capable of doing it).

This is a good suggestion, the only reason I would see for leaving it larger would be if we made a smaller spring that could fit inside of it for a double high current spring setup.

Honestly I have been to busy to even read BLF, I only found out about this because someone was nice enough to point it out to me in a PM.

We almost need a BLF highlights thread to links to important developments on BLF daily / weekly lol.

BlueSwordM
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OK then.

I will do it with a 6mm top diameter instead of 7mm.

gleamer
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Good day Blue, I am # 14 on the list. Please add me 50 for the smaller spring.
Thanks..

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Not that I neccessarily recommend it but for sake of the discussion: one reason to want the top wider and the spring compress less by the coils touching is to protect the spring from shortening from over-compression. (It happens with the Fasttech ‘carobronze’ spring: it can fully compress and it does not nearly come back to the original length after that, moreover it gets weaker and weaker over time)
So it all depends on how good the material is mechanically. And you can only really find out about that by testing samples.

link to djozz tests 

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Here is an idea:

Make up some spring forms with 3D printing.

Buy some metres of spring wire, various types (this would be the challenge).

Make a fixture to wind them.

Test, evaluate.

The prototype costs and NRE seem ludicrous to me, either the manufacturer knows what they are doing, or doesn’t, or is having a laugh. Winding a conical spring, or any spring, should be trivial. Tooling costs bugger-all.

Making a spring is ultra mature technology, nothing new to be learned, no breakthroughs, no exotic materials science will happen.

That said, a bespoke spring that fits a certain precisely defined requirement that is far out of the ordinary is worth developing. But I don’t think this is one.

SKV89
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I would like to add 20 small springs.

How does this compare with https://intl-outdoor.com/gold-plated-beryllium-copper-spring-5-pcs-p-831...

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in for 50 small

BlueSwordM
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List has been updated.

@djozz, I had thought about using a 6mm top initially, but as you said, more surface area for contact is better for yield strength and mechanical durability.

Using BeCu C17530 38% IACS should be just a bit worse mechanically than your phosphor bronze springs, and quite a bit better than the C17500 45% IACS Intl Outdoor fat spring.

Edit: We are also at 1511 big springs, and 1032 small springs.

mattlward
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Put me down for 15 of the small springs as well!

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Increase to 30 small, 50 big, please

borealis
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Interested in 50 each of both sizes.

BlueSwordM
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List updated again.

Once we get close to the 2000 spring mark, I think I will pause the big spring group buy, and let the small springs go up to 2000pcs too.

This is getting a bit too big for my taste LOL

Once I get the samples and test them for the electrical properties, but most importantly, the mechanical properties and see that they are good, I will reveal the final price details.

And as said before, if all goes well with the group buy, I’ll ping Richard and ASF so you can get these springs all

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Not really, Mtn is good for the americans but for getting just a few springs the shipping to the rest of the world is too high.

link to djozz tests 

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If there is a worldwide need for these springs it is possible I could hook us up with a China distributor if needed. That is of course if BlueSword wants that.

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Thanks Texas Ace. No problem with that. I have learned a lot about contacts, springs, and this really helped me along the way.

And so, pinging a Chinese distributor too like Kaidomain/Fasttech/Banggood would be great to get these springs to everybody once the group buy is done

You could also ping Lumintop to put my springs inside of the new XHP70.2 GT project haha. That would be helpful to push the XHP70.2 to its limits, or even do triples/quads inside if that is even possible in such a light.

List has been updated on the OP too.

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djozz wrote:
Not really, Mtn is good for the americans but for getting just a few springs the shipping to the rest of the world is too high.

Agreed, there are plenty of nice things that I would like to buy from the US, it’s great engineers and entrepreneurs, but it’s pointless. Shipping and duty just make it stupid.

And it’s going to get far worse if the POTUS carries on with his madness and tries to pull up the drawer bridges. (Oops, please disregard, that might sound like politics). Making a comfy little short-term bubble for his uneducated electorate and big business chums, second term on his mind, meanwhile going to hell in a handbasket.

Get them made anywhere but in the US and shipped direct. It’s just a spring, not complicated, plenty of manufacturers could do it.

Even Harley Davidson understand this, and are reacting sensibly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY

Free Trade.

Rant over.

BlueSwordM
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Yeah. A Chinese distributor would be the best bet for international shipping and purchases.

I just pointed to MtnElectronics and ASF so the US guys could get them quickly while not waiting for the Chinese slow boat.
And since even if you were to buy 5000 springs at a time, the amount would be lower than 800$US, so it would not be subjected to the stupid new 25% tax.

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I will put out some feelers and see what happens.

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Tom Tom wrote:
djozz wrote:
Not really, Mtn is good for the americans but for getting just a few springs the shipping to the rest of the world is too high.

Agreed, there are plenty of nice things that I would like to buy from the US, it’s great engineers and entrepreneurs, but it’s pointless. Shipping and duty just make it stupid.

And it’s going to get far worse if the POTUS carries on with his madness and tries to pull up the drawer bridges. (Oops, please disregard, that might sound like politics). Making a comfy little short-term bubble for his uneducated electorate and big business chums, second term on his mind, meanwhile going to hell in a handbasket.

Get them made anywhere but in the US and shipped direct. It’s just a spring, not complicated, plenty of manufacturers could do it.

Even Harley Davidson understand this, and are reacting sensibly.
Free Trade.

Rant over.

I’m really trying to understand what your saying here and don’t really want this to be polictical but It looks like this is contradicting yourself.
You can ship a item from china to the US and cost the buyer nothing and most all other parts of the world. Once the item reaches the US port the united states postal service has to deliver this item to the buyer, its a great deal for the buyer and seller. If Mtn Electronics ships this same item to you (another country) the cost is to high and makes it unreasonable (No Sale, you buy else where). Facepalm The united states postal service takes the item to the same port the china goods came from so no difference in cost for the united states postal service. So how is this fair to Mtn Electronics.
Maybe I’m missing something here, I thought this was what all the fuss was about having fair trade. Sad
I hope somebody does something because it sure doesn’t seem fair to me.

teacher
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Tom Tom wrote:

Agreed, there are plenty of nice things that I would like to buy from the US, it’s great engineers and entrepreneurs, but it’s pointless. Shipping and duty just make it stupid.

And it’s going to get far worse if the POTUS carries on with his madness and tries to pull up the drawer bridges. (Oops, please disregard, that might sound like politics). Making a comfy little short-term bubble for his uneducated electorate and big business chums, second term on his mind, meanwhile going to hell in a handbasket.

Get them made anywhere but in the US and shipped direct. It’s just a spring, not complicated, plenty of manufacturers could do it.

Even Harley Davidson understand this, and are reacting sensibly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY

Free Trade.

Rant over.

One simple question Tom Tom…. Why do you insist on making political posts & comments when it is clearly against the rules??? As you surely must know by now….

Do you feel the Forum Rules are beneath you & you need not comply??

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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BlueSwordM
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No, it’s actually ALMOST relevant to this discussion.

The taxes on electronics products only apply to orders outside of the US when importing more than 800$US of products/components, which is 25%.

Since even with 2000 big springs, and 2000 small springs, it will only cost 650$ in total, and so we aren’t affected.

It’s mainly distributors like Digikey, Arrow, and Mouser which will get affected by this.

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teacher wrote:
One simple question Tom Tom…. Why do you insist on making political posts & comments when it is clearly against the rules??? As you surely must know by now….

Do you feel the Forum Rules are beneath you & you need not comply??

What I post is factual (with a bit of discussion).

Fact is that the US is ploughing a path to nowhere.

In the case of e.g Harley, read this and weep:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/25/us-trade-policy-drives-h...

It’s a big wide world out here, and if the USA ceased to exist we’d be stuffed, for a short while. Nearly saw that when Lehman Brothers collapsed and Merrill Lynch were found out. And the ongoing consequences. Nevermind Enron. Could happen again, confidence is everything until it changes.

But lets back out now, this thread is about springs, of which you Teacher have no specific knowledge to contribute, though are very vocal in all sorts of threads. Consider that a slap-down.

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On the spreadsheet I’m #25 richnpc, 20 big, 10 small. Could I add 10 big, and 10 small, for a total of 30 big, 20 small?

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Big Smile ….. A “slap down” from you Tom Tom… by way of keyboard. Surely you jest. Big Smile

But you avoided answering the question & just interjected more of your political rhetoric & opinions.

And, one way or another; you have made your ‘superior intellect’ very plain in most every thread you post in….. which are many also. I applaude you for being of such high intelligence.

I, on the other hand; am just doing the best I can with the limited IQ I have. Oh well… such is life. Wink

But back to that one simple question. Why do you seem to think it is OK for you to post your rhetoric & opinions that are of a political nature??
You do it fairly often…. and by now surely you must know it is against BLF RULES.

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. A Chinese distributor would be the best bet for international shipping and purchases.

Kaidomain and FastTech come to my mind. PM BanL to see if he's interested.

 

Cheers Party

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BlueSwordM wrote:

Big spring vs Fasttech Carobronze measurements

Height: 12mm vs 10mm

Top diamater: 4mm vs 7mm

Bottom diameter: 7mm vs 9mm

Wire diameter: 0,8mm vs 1mm

That looks a little bit messed, better replace with this:

Big spring vs small spring (FastTech Carobronze size) measurements:

Height: 12mm vs 10mm

Top diameter: 7mm vs 4mm

Bottom diameter: 9mm vs 7mm

Wire diameter: 1mm vs 0.8mm

 

Cheers Party

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