NightWatch Avaritia NA40

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mrheosuper
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my NA40 pulls nearly 15A with fresh 26650 cell, so my wild guess is about 5000lumen
the light is also equipped with temprature control, because the turbo last much longer when using this light under water

Forgot my pen

2100
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For anyone who is waiting for this light, available stock is coming back on Taobao on 10th Oct 2000h, beijing time.

Anyway, more details and more pics can be found in the Taobao item’s review section, which number 410 reviews.

2100
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mattheww1950 wrote:
From my perspective a far more interesting question about this light is the power source. It is shown a single 26650 battery, and to deliver 6000 lumens, is going take 20 amps if not a little more, and there are not a lot 26650’s out there that can sustain 20 amps for a long period. The more output you want, such as from xhp50.2, the more power you need. 10,000 lumens is going to require 30+ amps, and if you thought 20 amps for a sustained period was difficult, 30 amps is much much worse, and in either case, the heat dissipation is going to be very big problem, very quickly. The Keeppower IMR 5200mah according to HKJ’s testing isn’t good for much more than 20 amps.

Yes, that’s probably the reason why folks aren’t getting much comfortably above 4000 lumens, much less hitting 6000 lumens.

A single cell gunning 6000 lumens at very high amps is going to place a lot of stress and emphasis not only on the 1 × 26650, but also on the springs, the cleanliness of contact points, all the components in the power path.

You cannot use the Keeperpower 26650s, they are like mid current cells only.

The best Keeperpower 26650 vs Liitokala INR26650 @ 20A “only”. I think we need to look at 30A (see subsequent posts).

2100
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And this is the VTC5A vs Liitokala INR 26650 @ 30A. Sony VTC5A wins

2100
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To get the absolute best measurements at start-up or within 1-20 seconds, i guess you’d need the true heavy hitters.

Bring out the Samsung 20S INR (Vapcell 2000mAh black)

Samsung 20S vs Sony VTC5A @ 30A. No contest.

BlueSwordM
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Yep. To get this power out of a single cell, it is imperative to reduce resistance as much as possible.

The biggest one here is the spring. Why aren’t they using dual BeCu springs, or at least, a coated spring? Uncoated copper alloy springs will develop oxides on the layers overtime, boosting contact resistance, and creating hot spots, and boosting the voltage loss even further.

That means even if they are using the highest conductivity BeCu C17500, performance will get worse over time.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

2100
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Look at djozz’s test on the SST-40. In the best scenarios, cooling and excellent bins, it needs 6A per emitter at 2000 lumens. If you want 6000 lumens OTF as measured in all of our ceiling bounces/lumens tubes/integrating sphere, you’d need much more after factoring all the lens losses, driver losses, heat etc.

Probably need 2400 lumens in dijozz’s test if there is a 17% loss to 2000 lumens OTF, thus 9A per emitter.

I am guessing 27-30A at the tailcap is gonna be needed, a fair bit of which is really heat and not lumens. Don’t even dream about efficiency once comfortably past 6 amps per emitter.

2100
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Yep. To get this power out of a single cell, it is imperative to reduce resistance as much as possible.

The biggest one here is the spring. Why aren’t they using dual BeCu springs, or at least, a coated spring? Uncoated copper alloy springs will develop oxides on the layers overtime, boosting contact resistance, and creating hot spots, and boosting the voltage loss even further.

That means even if they are using the highest conductivity BeCu C17500, performance will get worse over time.

Definitely 12awg copper bypass for this jobbie, just strip the insulation and do it. Big Smile Enjoy the smoke if the light does puff though.

BlueSwordM
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Hmm 12AWG bypass over 1cm.

At 0,052mOhm of resistance, wouldn’t you be trying to pull, at 3,6V average voltage, about 69 000A if there were not other resistances in the circuit, including the cell?

Yeah. Maybe you’d kill the emitters if there was a 6000mAh version of the Samsung 30T and bypasses everywhere.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

2100
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Seriously just look at other “6000 lumens” lights measured in our ceiling bounce/tubes/spheres, like our ubiquitous BLF Q8 with 4 x XP-L.

Of course 4pcs of XP-L (at 1500 OTF lumens) is going to be much more efficient than 3pcs of SST-40 (at 2000 OTF lumens each). But even so, we are talking like about 25 amps for the 18650 in 4P config? Or is it closer to 30 amps?

This is a 30A light, if you wanna do 6k OTF lumens, low 20-ish if you want to gun at 5k OTF.

2100
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Hmm 12AWG bypass over 1cm.

At *_0,052mOhm _*of resistance, wouldn’t you be trying to pull, at 3,6V average voltage, about 69 000A if there were not other resistances in the circuit, including the cell?

Yeah. Maybe you’d kill the emitters if there was a 6000mAh version of the Samsung 30T and bypasses everywhere.

LOL….. Big Smile We need to get the bottleneck out from the tail-end for sure.

Actually thinking about that, we use 2.5mm diameter copper wires here for our 240AC. That’s thicker than 12awg. More like 10awg.
Just thinking of a very common and convenient source. And seriously speaking, the 10awg stuff that some electricians source for is sucky…..that’s why some of our local setups with air conditioner wirings doing higher currents might cause degrade and subsequently cause fires over time etc.

BlueSwordM
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Besides, if it were a real 6000 lumen light, wouldn’t it be trying to pull something upwards of 80W?

It would be more efficient than an Emisar D4 of course even at that level, but it would throttle very quickly still.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

2100
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Yeah, talking about the throttling and “heat soak”, i’m really trying to get myself away from lights that are super turbo pocket rockets.

Simply coz we do not get snow here and it’s near constant 29-31 deg C nights. Sad

2100
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Hmm…..just realised that this one has USB-C.

It might still be “practical” in the real world. A 5-20 seconds burst, then charge 2-5 minutes with a powerbank, then 5-20 seconds burst. Look at the above various batt discharge graphs plots @ high current and how it slides down as to why this is so. Even a VTC6 is doable. Such high-drain cells are able to accept relatively high currents till the very end so it’d be relatively fast top-ups.

For those flashaholic meetups thingys……you know what i mean?

And it would be especially nice for people having winter conditions.

131mm x 41mm head package. Empty weight 213g as per Taobao listing.

Lets face it, there are so many people here in BLF owning MT09R (multiples even) with TA driver and that’s also around this level in terms of current consumption.

So to be very fair to the light and maker/modder, quite “workable” and “practical”, if you can get it from TB direct, one for the collection at that price, perhaps.
Dollar per lumen is actually similar to the MT09R.

There are Samsung 20S for sale in TB, batt pulls……seemingly legit from end-user testing, 7 milli ohms. Seller tested 6 milliohms on the YR1030 tester. So the whole thingy is definitely doable from start to finish.

2100
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Don’t think this has been posted here or in other threads discussing this…..

For the record. I presume that this is legit. Using the Nightwatch 4800mAh 35A store battery.

No mention of ambient temp or what, actually i believe it might be cooled in a certain way as i certainly won’t be able to get my BLF Q8 doing this, no way at all.

BlueSwordM
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It’s obviously actively cooled.

SST40s have very low forward voltages, especially in parallel, and this curve follows the battery’s voltage gradually going down.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

2100
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BlueSwordM wrote:
It’s obviously actively cooled.

SST40s have very low forward voltages, especially in parallel, and this curve follows the battery’s voltage gradually going down.

Yep, practically direct drive in Turbo. Relies on the small resistance naunces in the batt, driver, soldering points, springs w bypass etc.

2100
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2100
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Oh….the shop also sells a 26980 tube and 26980 batt. But no info on the 26980 batt specs/ratings.

Maybe need to explore your own sources as well?
Of course that’d mean you’d charge it with a hobby charger with leads and magnets. I wonder where is the location of the USB-C, so just do it that simplified way and hope it is accurate and safe enough with regards to termination and so does not pop.

From another seller, specs of their cell…. shrugs
I suppose 30A 90 seconds is definitely doable if the 5 mΩ (or 6-10 mΩ range, whatever) can be trusted?
Power tools stuff….

额定电压:3.7V
额定容量:6000MAh
内阻:5mΩ
放电截止电压:2.75V
充电限制电压:4.25V
最大充电电流:6A
最大持续放电电流:90A
循环寿命1000次以上

Just for illustration purposes….from another store.

2100
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BSM mentioned the Samsung 30T, shall add the below for good measure….The seller does offer 26980 option as well.

I think with a 21700 you probably do not need a spring bypass already, the springs might be all compressed and coils touching each other so that’s already like ultra low resistance. In all seriousness, be careful, it really might go poof with the 30T. Initial discharge 30A load is nearly 3.9V 30A, 117W. The light/driver could very well draw more than that since we are removing the springs as the limiting factor and basically li-ion power source as well.
Or even the chinese 26980s if you are taking my 10-12awg bypass post seriously, no matter how lousy you think the chinese cells might seem. I don’t wanna to be blamed as a source of a light killer. Silly

JasonWW
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2100 wrote:

You cannot use the Keeperpower 26650s, they are like mid current cells only.

The best Keeperpower 26650 vs Liitokala INR26650 @ 20A “only”. I think we need to look at 30A (see subsequent posts).



You’re looking at the wrong KeepPower. The 5200mah is an older design. You need to look at the newer KeepPower 6000mah. (The Shockli 5500 is the same battery) This one exceeds the performance of the Liitokala 50A.

Then you also have higher current 26650 cells such as the Golisi 4300mah which can do 30A continuously.

Here is the Golisi against the VTC5A at 30A.

You can also compare the Shockli 4300mah and Ijoy 4200mah as they are close to the Golisi 4300mah.

The biggest “Big 4 Company” batteries are the 21700 cells and the 30T is definitely a heavy hitter.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

2100
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JasonWW wrote:

You’re looking at the wrong KeepPower. The 5200mah is an older design. You need to look at the newer KeepPower 6000mah. (The Shockli 5500 is the same battery) This one exceeds the performance of the Liitokala 50A.

Then you also have higher current 26650 cells such as the Golisi 4300mah which can do 30A continuously.

You can also compare the Shockli 4300mah and Ijoy 4200mah as they are close to the Golisi 4300mah.

The biggest “Big 4 Company” batteries are the 21700 cells and the 30T is definitely a heavy hitter.

I see, thanks for the info, learnt something new today. Smile
Was replying to Mattheww1950’s earlier comment regarding using the Keeperpower IMR 5200mAh (2015) in this light, didn’t know that there is a latest 2017 version.

Those new 2017 Keeperpower IMR 26650 6000 (Shockli IMR 5500 2017 ver) curves look good! Esp the Golisi 4300 Gold, savage even at 30A.=, like a 2X capacity version of the Samsung 20S at 30A.

edit – there is only 1 battery comparator link right? This one?
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

Can’t find the new Keeperpower 2017 26650 IMRs. I wonder where am i doing it wrong?
edit – oh i got it, gotta select the Shockli IMR 5500 (2017).

JasonWW
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I don't think HKJ has tested the Keeppower 6000mah yet, but it seems widely know that it and the Shockli 5500mah are identical cells with different wrappers.

 

Here is the link I use as it includes several battery sizes.

 

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Tom E
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JasonWW wrote:
aors10 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Got my original NA40 updated with a piggyback'ed 17mm DEL driver running NarsilM ...

Where did you buy this NarsilM driver?
Appearantly DEL built it for him. If you want to buy one ready to go you can see "Lexels thread":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59724 on them.

Ooops, way late but I buy the bare OSHPark boards from DEL's public postings and reflow them myself - been doing OSHPark reflows for several years now, just wish I had the time to learn a PCB design program so i could tweak up my own layouts.

 

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