Cree announced XHP35.2 and XPG2-HE

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Lexel
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Cree announced XHP35.2 and XPG2-HE

Got today a mail from Cutter

NEW XPG Product Line XPG2-HE

•Highly Compatible to XP-G2
•Alternative to XP-G3 & XT-E LEDs with less colour separation
•Similar flux as XP-G2
Max Drive Current: 2Amp
Optically and mechanically compatible in most systems
Production in early Q3CY18LM-80 successor Q3CY18 Available now:

•Preliminary Datasheet
•Raysets
•Samples in certain CCTs

Key Takeaway

25% improvement in max drive current
25% improvement in Thermal Resistance
2.5% improvement in forward voltage reduction = 4% improvement in LPW
Improved colour separation performance over XPG3 and XTE

XLamp XHP35.2 LEDs Introduction

XLamp XHP35.2 (12V)
•Better Vf vs. Current and Temperature than XHP35
•Better Price Performance Roadmap
•Optically and Mechanically compatible in most systems
•Production in early Q3CY18
•LM-80 Status NOW (scales from XHP50.2)
•Available now:
•PreliminaryDatasheet
•Raysets
•Samples in certain CCTs

Key Takeaway
4% improvement in LPW

Edited by: Lexel on 07/10/2018 - 11:36
Agro
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Cool. Smile
Just hoping XHP35.2 is not a flip chip………

ADDED:
BTW, XHP35.2 was my wish for this year.

With better thermals (not present) and 6V (not clear yet).
4% efficacy increase? Half bin. Nothing to brag about. Looks like 3.2% comes from higher output and .8 from lower voltage.
Though the top bin of XHP35 HI was near-unobtanium. If we can actually get the top bin of XHP35.2, that’s not 4 but 11% improvement for some of us.

zeremefico
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Good old xp-g2 is back?

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Geuzzz
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Looking foreward to more info on that improved xp-g2. Still even like the old ones.

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They should make Xp-g2 HI, i hope

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Good news. Waiting for someone to test these new led.

But still no any improvement from MT-G2 until now. Silly

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AlexGT
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Hope XHP70.2 HI…

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OOOHHH! The XP-G2 loving crowd should be VERY happy with this news! But, I wonder if this “improvement” is compared to the “older” XP-G2 or the “newer” XP-G2 which was already worse than the older ones. Facepalm

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XHP35.2

XPG2 HE

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

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Perhaps I’m wrong, but those look like flip-chip designs, no? I don’t see any bond wires and it looks like a rough phosphor “pour” over the entire surface. Sad

EasyB
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gchart wrote:
Perhaps I’m wrong, but those look like flip-chip designs, no? I don’t see any bond wires and it looks like a rough phosphor “pour” over the entire surface. Sad

It looks that way to me too. It looks like there are larger spaces between the dies in the XHP35.2 which further reduces the effective luminance for thrower applications.

I’m not sure about the XPG2HE. The phosphor is a strange color and it looks like it covers the whole package like other flip chip designs. But I can almost see bond wires in that picture, and the XPG2 designation makes me think it’s using an older technology. I’m interested to see this LED, but I somehow doubt it will throw better than the regular XPG2.

thijsco19
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Finally there is something new.
Excited to see their performance.

Agro
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Yes, to me also it looks like XHP35.2 is flip chip with wider core gaps. Facepalm
XHP50.2 is throwier than XHP50 in terms of cd/lm because of closer dies.
XHP70.2 is floodier than XHP70 in terms of cd/lm, but throwier in absolute cd/mm² because of higher output.

Here we have flip chip. With wider spacing. Not much more output due to increased efficiency. No output increase due to better thermals.
It certainly looks like a downgrade for our needs…..but we’ll see.

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The XHP35.2 will be good for compact single-cell lights with high output simply because of higher efficiency.

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Noticed one more thing…on the table says “XHP35.2 (12V)” and “XHP35”. In interpret that as saying that they don’t need to clarify voltage of XHP35 (because, as we know, it’s always 12V), but they need to do so for XHP35.2.
So probably there will be a 6V variant. Maybe 3V as well?….

JasonWW
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Agro wrote:
Noticed one more thing…on the table says “XHP35.2 (12V)” and “XHP35”. In interpret that as saying that they don’t need to clarify voltage of XHP35 (because, as we know, it’s always 12V), but they need to do so for XHP35.2.
So probably there will be a 6V variant. Maybe 3V as well?….

I guess the only good thing about moving the dies apart is that you can run it at a lower voltage (like the 50 and 70).

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Modded S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and lighted side switch.

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thijsco19
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JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Noticed one more thing…on the table says “XHP35.2 (12V)” and “XHP35”. In interpret that as saying that they don’t need to clarify voltage of XHP35 (because, as we know, it’s always 12V), but they need to do so for XHP35.2.
So probably there will be a 6V variant. Maybe 3V as well?….

I guess the only good thing about moving the dies apart is that you can run it at a lower voltage (like the 50 and 70).

Good points. I can imagine that it would be almost impossible to design it so the dies can be in series or in 2s2p config without making the space bigger between those dies.
So they would have to make 2 different ‘xhp35.2’ chips (where the dies are close together) to have xhp35.2’s with different Vf.
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It seems to me that I might be seeing two bond wires on the new XP-G2-HE.
Or it might as well be two random reflections Smile

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Agro
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thijsco19 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Noticed one more thing…on the table says “XHP35.2 (12V)” and “XHP35”. In interpret that as saying that they don’t need to clarify voltage of XHP35 (because, as we know, it’s always 12V), but they need to do so for XHP35.2.
So probably there will be a 6V variant. Maybe 3V as well?….

I guess the only good thing about moving the dies apart is that you can run it at a lower voltage (like the 50 and 70).

Good points. I can imagine that it would be almost impossible to design it so the dies can be in series or in 2s2p config without making the space bigger between those dies.
So they would have to make 2 different ‘xhp35.2’ chips (where the dies are close together) to have xhp35.2’s with different Vf.

Why would 2s2p need larger spacing?

I used to assume these were unrelated changes.

BTW, today I realized we don’t know the die sizes. They may be smaller which would explain price reduction and only small marginal gains. Just like Nichia 219D….

JasonWW
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Agro wrote:

Why would 2s2p need larger spacing?

I used to assume these were unrelated changes.


I believe the way the original xhp35 was built was the 4 dies were butted up to each other positive to negative to make then all in series.

I don’t see any way around having a tiny gap if you wanted it to be 6v and 12v.

Now if they were willing to make 2 versions, one 6v and one 12v, they could probably keep them close together. That would cause a ton of complications, though.

This is me guessing, I don’t really know how the base is constructed, etc… Maybe someone can chime in who knows more.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Modded S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and lighted side switch.

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Agro
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Thanks for the explanation.
I believe that XHP50.2 is actually manufactured in 2 variants. Am I correct?

JasonWW
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Agro wrote:
Thanks for the explanation.
I believe that XHP50.2 is actually manufactured in 2 variants. Am I correct?

No, it’s just one model, same for 70.2. The mcpcb is what determines whether it 6v or 12v.

The 50, 50.2, 70 and 70.2 have 5 pads under the base (middle pad is just for heat transfer) so the mcpcb can alter the wiring.

The 35 only has 3 pads on the bottom with the middle pad for heat transfer.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Modded S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and lighted side switch.

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thijsco19
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Exactly Jason.
That is what I meant.

Agro. I didn’t say that with a 2s2p setup the dies couldn’t be together. I said that
I can imagine that it would be almost impossible to design it so that the dies can be either in series (12v) or in 2s2p setup (6v) without increasing the gap.

If they choose to make 2 separate versions both dies can be as close together as they are now. But that would probably not be very cost efficient.

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Thank you guys, I understand it now. Smile

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Doesn’t seem like much progress in the XHP35.2 especially with the larger separation, which means possibly no XHP35.2 HI variant. I alwasy wonder what’s the purpose of the XHP35 HD when there are already XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 that are brighter and more efficient.

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SKV89 wrote:
Doesn’t seem like much progress in the XHP35.2 especially with the larger separation, which means possibly no XHP35.2 HI variant. I alwasy wonder what’s the purpose of the XHP35 HD when there are already XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 that are brighter and more efficient.

It’s physically smaller.

JasonWW
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The_Driver wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Doesn’t seem like much progress in the XHP35.2 especially with the larger separation, which means possibly no XHP35.2 HI variant. I alwasy wonder what’s the purpose of the XHP35 HD when there are already XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 that are brighter and more efficient.

It’s physically smaller.


Yeah, it’s the biggest die with the most output using a 3.5mm pad. So if you have a street light full of xpl, it can be easily swapped to xhp35 and you get way more light from the same surface area. That’s how I understand it.

BTW, none of these leds are made for flashlights, they are more for street lights and commercial stuff.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Modded S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and lighted side switch.

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JasonWW wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
I alwasy wonder what’s the purpose of the XHP35 HD when there are already XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 that are brighter and more efficient.

BTW, none of these leds are made for flashlights, they are more for street lights and commercial stuff.

I have a small 1×18650 Zebralight that uses the XHP50.2. I also have a larger 4×18650 light that uses the XHP70.2.

Those LEDs aren’t used much in budget lights, due to their 12v forward voltage (and thus requiring a boost driver or several cells in series), but they’re becoming popular for high-output flashlights.

JasonWW
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The 50.2 and 70.2 are definitely used in budget flashlights. They can be 6v or 12v.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Modded S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

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Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

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Lexel
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JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:

Why would 2s2p need larger spacing?

I used to assume these were unrelated changes.


I believe the way the original xhp35 was built was the 4 dies were butted up to each other positive to negative to make then all in series.

I don’t see any way around having a tiny gap if you wanted it to be 6v and 12v.

Now if they were willing to make 2 versions, one 6v and one 12v, they could probably keep them close together. That would cause a ton of complications, though.

This is me guessing, I don’t really know how the base is constructed, etc… Maybe someone can chime in who knows more.

there is no problem in arranging the dies of the original XHP34 to make 6V but they did not make 2 versions, so there is only 12V
they would need to rotate some dies and do the bond wiring differently

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2 bond wires in, 2 bond wires out like:
N N
P P
N N
P P
?

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