Fireflies ROT66 Flashlight

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maukka
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And with a quick testing without proper sphere calibration and just using a lux meter I measured the 7×7135 mode at about 720 lumens and the 1×7135 at 105 lumens.

JasonWW
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toobadorz wrote:
The max temperature around the side switch is ~45°C, which is fairly good. And after stepping down to the highest regulated brightness level, the max temperature is ~43°C after two hours.

Keep in mind that NarsilM is not designed to step down to the “highest regulated brightness level”. In ramping, the drops from max/turbo will be as follows:
1st: 100% (150) to 55% (125)
2nd: 55% (125) to 31% (105)
3rd: 31% (105) to 14% (88)
Drops will continue (if necessary), but stop occurring once it reaches about 150 lumens, or 0.35 amps.

So if it happens to stabilize within the upper part of the regulated mode, it is just a coincidence. Maybe a happy coincidence? Party

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

JasonWW
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maukka wrote:

What I don’t particularly like is that changing the batteries resets the light back to ramping mode.

It definitely should not do that. All settings (modes, thermal, etc…) should be stored permanently unless you go into the menu and change them. This will need investigating.

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

JasonWW
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maukka wrote:
Highest fully regulated output would be the 7×7135 level, which should be somewhere around 500-600 lumens. However, you would have to switch to the mode groups from the ramping UI to reliably select that level.

It may be possible to get close in ramping if you use the switch blinks. I assume it still blinks twice when using the FET and once when using the regulated mode?

You would just ramp up to about 600 lm, release the switch and see if it blinks once or twice. If twice, then you need to ramp down a little. After a couple of tries, I can find that highest regulated level on my GT Mini.

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

JasonWW
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maukka wrote:
Just FYI, the default mode set group (4) with (moon) – 0.25 – 3 – 33 – full FET have both the 1×7135 and 7×7135 selectable. They are the middle modes 3 and 33. Makes testing the runtimes and efficiency easier since theyre’s no way to activate those in ramping mode. No default 1×7135 like on the D4.

edit: this is from the Q8 quick manual. On the NarsilM reference manual the modes are called moon – 2 – 10 – 40 – full.


This light is using NarsilM v1.2, right? It has a reduced level at the top of the ramp and full turbo with a double click?

If so, then the mode sets are a bit different. Modes 1-6 use the top of the ramp as 100%. Modes 7-12 use full turbo as 100%.

This light is still new, so I’m not sure what exact UI it’s using or if it has any special tweaks.

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

JasonWW
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toobadorz wrote:

Yeah, the default mode-set is:

Moon (7135 ×1, PWM)
7135 ×1, 20% (PWM)
7135 ×1, 100%
7135 ×7, 100%
FET only, 100%

right?


No, not unless Fireflies rewrote the NarsilM code, which seems unlikely. It seems they did.

Modes 4 and 10 (each have 4 brightness levels, not counting moonlight) are spaced as follows:

12.5%
25%
50%
100%

This is based on the percentage of light.

If moonlight is turned on, you will see 5 total levels.

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

maukka
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JasonWW wrote:
It may be possible to get close in ramping if you use the switch blinks. I assume it still blinks twice when using the FET and once when using the regulated mode?

There’s a very subtle blip/pause at the 100% 7135 levels while ramping. So that helps too.

But I think there’s something wrong with the light not remembering the ramp/mode setting made in the config menu. Haven’t had to chance to test other options yet.

edit: it does remember the blinky modes on/off setting though so maybe the ramp/mode is a decision to prevent situation where the user accidentally deactivates ramping? At least it indicates that the non-volatile memory is working.

edit2: after another runtime test it did remember the mode config after several battery changes and didn’t revert to ramping

Bob_McBob
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FireFlies, could you please explain the light not retaining settings between cell switches?

twisted raven
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Oh how I crave beam shots!

Bob_McBob
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twisted raven wrote:
Oh how I crave beam shots!

Comparison with the Q8 from steel_1024:

ToyKeeper
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Lexel wrote:
You can configure the step down tenperature in the BarsilUI

Barsil?

Is the ROT66’s code published anywhere? I’m not sure if I need to go bother someone about license compliance.

I sent Fireflies a message about it last month sometime, but I’ve been travelling and haven’t had time to follow up yet.

blueb8llz
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Those beamshot comparisons sure doesn’t look like 10k lumens. It looks less output than the q8.
I ordered a r0t66 anyways hehe

maukka
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That’s because it’s the 5000 lumen 219B version.

JasonWW
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Lexel wrote:
You can configure the step down tenperature in the BarsilUI

Barsil?

Is the ROT66’s code published anywhere? I’m not sure if I need to go bother someone about license compliance.

I sent Fireflies a message about it last month sometime, but I’ve been travelling and haven’t had time to follow up yet.


I’m sure he meant Narsil as the B and the N are right next to each other.

Fireflies contacted me about a week ago if it was okay for them to use the videos I made on NarsilM. I said sure and pointed them to Vestureofblood as he has a better video. That was the first time I had heard of this light.

If you look at their website here you can see where there say it’s using NarsilM version 1.2. I don’t know if it’s been tweaked or not to fit this light.

Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch, SMO reflector.

Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware, 2 x 26350 cells, lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

Thorfire S70S with MTN FET driver, RampingIOS (D4) and custom lighted side switch.

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT70, GT Mini, Astrolux S43 and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices - Headlight List with prices, specs and features

Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light Review  - Lumintop ODF30 Review - Sofirn C8F 21700 Teardown and Review, Sofirn SP33 v2 XHP50.2 Review - My Sofirn Q8 Results - Astrolux S43S 219C Test Results - Lumintop GT Mini Test Results

maukka
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Well isn’t this the strangest thing. Now after doing another runtime test at 7×7135, it does remember the mode configuration. Before this I tried it at least 10 times and it always reverted back to ramping after power loss. Now it doesn’t do it after several battery swaps.

ToyKeeper
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maukka wrote:
Well isn’t this the strangest thing. Now after doing another runtime test at 7×7135, it does remember the mode configuration. Before this I tried it at least 10 times and it always reverted back to ramping after power loss. Now it doesn’t do it after several battery swaps.

It’s probably missing a call to SaveConfig() somewhere, so it only saves sometimes. Or maybe there was weird stuff in ROM and it needed to wear-level over some bogus values. It’s hard to say. In either case, it sounds like there’s a bug somewhere.

ToyKeeper
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JasonWW wrote:
If you look at their website here you can see where there say it’s using NarsilM version 1.2. I don’t know if it’s been tweaked or not to fit this light.

Thanks. I’ll try to follow up soon to clarify how the GPL works. Basically, it needs a conspicuous notice somewhere that it’s using free software, with a link to the code which shipped in the product. That’s usually the easiest method, anyway. If it’s modified from what is already published, things get a little more complicated… so I usually try to put an exact copy in the repo to make things easier.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
maukka wrote:
Well isn’t this the strangest thing. Now after doing another runtime test at 7×7135, it does remember the mode configuration. Before this I tried it at least 10 times and it always reverted back to ramping after power loss. Now it doesn’t do it after several battery swaps.

It’s probably missing a call to SaveConfig() somewhere, so it only saves sometimes. Or maybe there was weird stuff in ROM and it needed to wear-level over some bogus values. It’s hard to say. In either case, it sounds like there’s a bug somewhere.

Is this something that can be rectified on lights that were already sold or would that mean Fireflies needs to recompile everything and sell a new revision of their lights?

Tom E
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Hhmm. haven't heard of issues storing settings, but, anything is possible - there is wear leveling logic - think the "block" of settings is up to about 4 bytes now. I'm thinking it is saving, or attempting to save every time, just that something went wrong there with the addressing or something. Could be failing to load the setting,s then using defaults when this problem occurs.

I really wonder who is behind Fireflies - suppose Lexel knows because he had to be dealing with someone there. This is a one product company, they could be gone tomorrow. There sure ain't much info on their website. They want dealers but provide no info on who they are: http://www.ff-light.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=7

I agree with TK - I'd like to see a link to the source code since they are claiming NarsilM v1.2. There are tons of compile options in V1.2, so all depends on the exact v1.2 source code configuration.

 

Oh boy, might have to buy one or two of these just to see what's going on... Been debating spending the money. This is pretty weird.

 

FireFlies
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maukka wrote:
Well isn’t this the strangest thing. Now after doing another runtime test at 7×7135, it does remember the mode configuration. Before this I tried it at least 10 times and it always reverted back to ramping after power loss. Now it doesn’t do it after several battery swaps.

seems a bit strange, we tried 11pcs ROT66 randomly today , all can remember Mode group without problem.

Official store:

www.ff-light.com

maukka
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Good that it isn’t widespread. Let’s hope it doesn’t randomly appear on lights. Just something that everyone should try out though.

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maukka wrote:
Good that it isn't widespread. Let's hope it doesn't randomly appear on lights. Just something that everyone should try out though.

Been think'n bout it more - might have seen this... pm sent to Fireflies and TK. I guess the Q8 is the largest deployment of NarsilM and don't think I've heard of it happening with the Q8, though that was an earlier version. Dunno if I only saw it while in development/debug or what...

chooma
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
maukka wrote:
Well isn’t this the strangest thing. Now after doing another runtime test at 7×7135, it does remember the mode configuration. Before this I tried it at least 10 times and it always reverted back to ramping after power loss. Now it doesn’t do it after several battery swaps.

It’s probably missing a call to SaveConfig() somewhere, so it only saves sometimes. Or maybe there was weird stuff in ROM and it needed to wear-level over some bogus values. It’s hard to say. In either case, it sounds like there’s a bug somewhere.

Is this something that can be rectified on lights that were already sold or would that mean Fireflies needs to recompile everything and sell a new revision of their lights?

Waiting for more info before I order.

toobadorz
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JasonWW wrote:
toobadorz wrote:
The max temperature around the side switch is ~45°C, which is fairly good. And after stepping down to the highest regulated brightness level, the max temperature is ~43°C after two hours.

Keep in mind that NarsilM is not designed to step down to the “highest regulated brightness level”. In ramping, the drops from max/turbo will be as follows:
1st: 100% (150) to 55% (125)
2nd: 55% (125) to 31% (105)
3rd: 31% (105) to 14% (88)
Drops will continue (if necessary), but stop occurring once it reaches about 150 lumens, or 0.35 amps.

So if it happens to stabilize within the upper part of the regulated mode, it is just a coincidence. Maybe a happy coincidence? Party

Well, I did trace NasilM to find out its step-down logic before, but… I tend to let the runtime curves speak for me this time Silly


(Note: the peak brightness at 0s is higher with VTC6s)


(The first 5 minutes)

twisted raven
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Near 4 full hours of fully regulated 750 lumens of 9080 goodness! Very nice! The max output drops very fast, but I wonder how long it to drop if it starts at 1500 lumens?

SKV89
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4 hours at 700 lumens of 219B 9080 makes this an extremely practical light. When did you guys order? Howcome you got it so fast? I ordered mine on the first or second day it was announced but tracking status says “2018-08-10 06:02 – Origin Post is Preparing Shipment, We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece”

Also Fireflies does not respond to my multiple emails. How did you guys get a hold of him?

toobadorz
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JasonWW wrote:
toobadorz wrote:

Yeah, the default mode-set is:

Moon (7135 ×1, PWM)
7135 ×1, 20% (PWM)
7135 ×1, 100%
7135 ×7, 100%
FET only, 100%

right?


No, not unless Fireflies rewrote the NarsilM code, which seems unlikely.

Modes 4 and 10 (each have 4 brightness levels, not counting moonlight) are spaced as follows:

12.5%
25%
50%
100%

This is based on the percentage of light.

If moonlight is turned on, you will see 5 total levels.

I suppose those percentages are estimations, and may probably vary due to different LED/number of 7135 used in the bank/etc.

You may refer to the NarsilM source code, more specifically the mode-set definitions for 3 channels (OUT_CHANNELS == 3 in file ModeSets.h). The default mode-set (4) is defined as:

(EDIT: below are from Lexel’s numbers)
// 4 modes (1.2-10-50-max) ~1.2% ~10% ~60% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set4[] = { 25, 255, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet4[] ={ 0, 0, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet4[] = { 0, 0, 0, 255};

So the first mode is 25/255 = ~10%, while the others are indeed (7135 ×1, 100%) – (7135 ×7, 100%) – (FET only, 100%) Wink

Anthon
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Looking forward to seeing some xpl HI measurements

Lexel
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OUT_CHANNELS == 3 // Triple Channel //———————————————————————————————————————————-

//—————————- MODE SETS (must be low to high) —————————————

// 1 mode (max) max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set1[] = { 0}; // for single 7135
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet1[] ={ 0}; // for 7135 bank
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet1[] = { 255}; // FET only

// 2 modes (7135-FET) ~10% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set2[] = { 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet2[] ={ 0, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet2[] = { 0, 255};

// 3 modes (7135-7135s-max) ~10% ~50% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set3[] = { 255, 0, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet3[] ={ 0, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet3[] = { 0, 0, 255};

// 4 modes (1.2-10-50-max) ~1.2% ~10% ~60% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set4[] = { 25, 255, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet4[] ={ 0, 0, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet4[] = { 0, 0, 0, 255};

// 5 modes (1.2-5-10-50-max) ~1.2% ~4,5% ~10% ~60% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set5[] = { 25, 100, 255, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet5[] ={ 0, 0, 0, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet5[] = { 0, 0, 0, 0, 255};

// 6 modes 0.8-2-5-10-50-max ~0.8% ~2% ~5% ~10% ~60% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set6[] = { 17, 80, 255, 255, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet6[] ={ 0, 0, 0, 100, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet6[] = { 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 255};

// 7 modes (0.5-2.5-5-10-25-50-max) ~0.4% ~2% ~8% ~20% ~50% ~80% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set7[] = { 8, 200, 255, 255, 255, 0, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet7[] ={ 0, 0, 40, 120, 255, 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet7[] = { 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 100, 255};

// 2 modes (all 7135s-FET) ~60% max
PROGMEM const byte mode7135Set8[] = { 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte mode7135sSet8[] ={ 255, 0};
PROGMEM const byte modeFetSet8[] = { 0, 255};

Bob_McBob
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toobadorz wrote:
(The first 5 minutes)

I’m curious how long it takes to heat up if you disable the thermal stepdown. I don’t really like the behaviour with the Q8 because it never steps back up, so I just have it disabled and can generally get pretty decent usage out of turbo before it gets too hot to hold (i.e. high 50s C). Certainly more than 24 seconds.

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