In terms of degradation[and more] A Superior cell!

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
wolfdog1226
wolfdog1226's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 20:47
Posts: 1516
Location: Acquasanta,Italia/ Valley Forge, Pa.
In terms of degradation[and more] A Superior cell!

We all know what the top 5[Now 4] cells are. Sony, Panasonic/Sanyo,LG and Samsung.

My test is not scientific. I used simple equipment[Opus] and most important “Actual use over time”.

This is my experience with these Two cells. Panny NCR18650BD and Sony VTC6.I realize there is a Rated starting capacity difference[BD=3200mAh and VTC6=3000mAh]. If you look at the overall numbers, it is Clear which cell degrades a lot less. Keeping that[their capacity difference] in mind you will see how the BD lost less capacity, was used more than Twice as long and almost 4 X the cycles.

The “BD’S” born on date is 7.22.2013.They have 410 Charge cycles. Their capacity[done today] on my Opus is 2819mAh

The 2 X VTC6 cells were born on 4.28.2016. They have 108 cycles.

Capacity tests also done today.

Cell “A”=2554mAh, Cell “B”=2602mAh. I STOPPED using both the VTC6 cells at the end of March 2018 when I got my Vapcells[Sony VTC5D REWRAP] in the middle of March.So I used them Less than 2 years from BOD and actually less than 19 months from receiving them which was August of 2016.

The BD cell had almost 4X cycle use and is more than twice as old. I know this is only One battery example. However, ALL my NCRB’s also follow the longevity path and my experience w/ the 8 to 10 VTC6 that I have purchased got the same results.

My Opus measures ~ 3% high on the average. So those mAh numbers would be even lower.

Do not get me wrong. I like Sony,,,,,,,,I just do not prefer and will never buy the VTC6 again.VTC5/VTC5A/VTC5D and VTC6A if it is ever available.The LGHG2 is another cell I will never buy because of the same reason…Degrades too fast.

I am going to Staples after lunch to Recycle the VTC6’S and a few other older cells. Wink

The chart below shows what I am talking about, even though his test was a rapid torture test and mine was an actual use test over time, the results ARE the same!

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

wolfdog1226
wolfdog1226's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 20:47
Posts: 1516
Location: Acquasanta,Italia/ Valley Forge, Pa.

One more thing to add before I go to work.

The NCR18650BD were rarely, I mean rarely discharged below 3.60v.Maybe 4 or 5 times and 3 of those were capacity tests!

The VTC6 were Never below 3.60v W/ the exception of capacity tests on Opus. In fact these Two batteries were used in my M2Xvn and were NEVER below 3.70V. The voltage when I got home would be ~ 3.76 to 3.84. I like a fresh battery and only used them ~ 15 to a max of 20 minutes.

Another benefit for VTC6 and yet it still degraded faster.

I could imagine if I used the VTC6 for as long and as many cycles as the BD. If it lived it probably would have a capacity of 2100 or 2200mAh!

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

LightUpTheDark
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 09/04/2012 - 16:03
Posts: 169
Location: NorCal

Wonder what AW was using as the base cells (Samsungs maybe)? All of my protected AW 18650 with 2200 mAh from 2005-2006 still run and recharge fully.

Thanks for the tests and info.

I’ve got a thrower, a flooder, and an EDC too. Still looking for a bigger thrower, flooder, and a new EDC, give or take a few. I’m a flashaholic.

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 26 min 31 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1037
Location: Germany

The AW 2200mAh were from a large Chinese manufacturer.

A better test of a cells health is measuring the internal resistance.

wolfdog1226
wolfdog1226's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 20:47
Posts: 1516
Location: Acquasanta,Italia/ Valley Forge, Pa.

The_Driver wrote:
The AW 2200mAh were from a large Chinese manufacturer.

A better test of a cells health is measuring the internal resistance.

My Opus can do that[Measure internal resistance]. But it is just a general idea.Not the most accurate.

Keeping my simple stats and seeing the results over time, is more revealing and valuable to me.

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

LightUpTheDark
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 09/04/2012 - 16:03
Posts: 169
Location: NorCal

I had bought some Eagletac 18650 with the blue shrink wrap (4 of them) back in 2010 and now only 1 will charge properly to 4.2V while another one maxes out at 4.18V. The other 2 bad ones will just go blank in my Nitecore D4 after about 10 seconds.

I should have gotten a charger with resistance test. Bought the Folomov A4 and now regret that I should have bought the Xstar Dragon VP4 Plus, instead. Oh well.

I’ve got a thrower, a flooder, and an EDC too. Still looking for a bigger thrower, flooder, and a new EDC, give or take a few. I’m a flashaholic.

wolfdog1226
wolfdog1226's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 20:47
Posts: 1516
Location: Acquasanta,Italia/ Valley Forge, Pa.

I have 3 X E’tac 3100mAh. They have been in my TN31mb for 4Y 7M. They are still working well. Taking a full charge and still @ 4.17/18V several weeks later. Another fine Panny cell,,,NCR18650B. Thumbs Up

I also have 6 X Orbtronic 18650 that I bought on 12.21.2012!! Two are still in use and the other 4 have been in storage for about 6 months,,probably about 80% capacity but wanted new batteries. Another Panny NCR18650B cell. Big Smile

Can you tell I love numbers in all forms,,dates and stats!

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

wolfdog1226
wolfdog1226's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 20:47
Posts: 1516
Location: Acquasanta,Italia/ Valley Forge, Pa.

Here is another PRIME example of VTC6 degrading. I got 4 X VTC6 on 6.26.2017. Their BOD is 6.22.2016. So they were 1 year old when I got them.

My Fenix ARE-C2 is my only charger that will give them a full charge[4.20/4.21], That does not matter because after 3 days the voltage is 4.10v/4.11v regardless of what charger was used.

They only have 106 cycles and are used in my TK61vn V4 which gets great run time on max. They have never been below 3.70V w/ exception of a capacity test on my Opus. Most times the voltages are in the 3.80’s

I have had several sets of batteries that were ~ 1 year old when I received them and they lasted awhile without out showing so much resting voltage drop.In fact my LGMJ1’S were 14 months old when I got them and they still hold a voltage of at least 4.17v several days later. They are almost 2 years old now.

Your honor, I rest my case with these VTC6 batteries that have shown higher degradation than any of my other batteries! Wink

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG