Blue light is very, very bad.

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Sari33
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I will back to incandescent on night use.
Sleep is important for healt.

SKV89
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The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

Sari33
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SKV89 wrote:
The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

2000k is the same of Sodium High pressure bulb,they was very pleasant for eyes,with golden beam but low cri
There was a thousand on my city streets and now are replace with crappy cool white leds…
what a disgrace
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SKV89 wrote:
Personally I think violet light is even more harmful to our eyes than blue despite I don’t have any scientific evidence to prove it. Violent is a shorter wavelength and higher energy than blue. I would love for someone to prove my assumption wrong but unless there is solid evidence proving violet is less harmful than blue, I will take blue over violet for day-to-day ambient lighting.

Sorry this is in french : https://www.anses.fr/fr/system/files/AP2014SA0253Ra.pdf

There is a phototoxicity of the blue light for human retina and the part of the blue light that is studied for this toxicity goes from 450 to 470 nm.
The part of the blue light that is studied to affect circadian rhythms goes from 480 to 490 nm.

This phototoxicity is due to a chemical reaction on human eye tissues activated by the blue light (450 to 470 nm).

There are a tons more details about it that I won’t go into because of my broken english.

SKV89 wrote:
The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

Which is good because as you may know, the younger you are, the more affected you are. With ages eye’s cystalline lens “deteriorate” and act as a filter that blocks more of the blue light than where you were younger.
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Roses are red
Violets are blue
Whichever light is more harmful
I know that life is killing me too

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Cree now produces their XP-G3 in a 70 CRI 2200K format. I find that to be particularly interesting as the typical CRI for street lights is 70. 70 CRI at 2200K would be too low for interior usage. Further, I believe the XP-G3 is also an emitter built for and used in street lighting. I have reason to believe that they could be used in something like the RSW series which would be really interesting to see 2200K LED street lights. Color should look superficially similar to SON Deluxe/Super HPS. We are beginning to see the sub-3000K become more and more viable especially after Phoenix’s refit of all 2700K. Those lights look superficially like incandescent light.

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SKV89 wrote:
The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

Same here, we are in a rented small house in the middle of a nature reserve for a few days, and my home-made lantern with 2000K E21A is my son’s nightlight.

Personally I’m not a great blue peak worrier, but I do welcome the “human centric lighting” shift of the industry, if not for health reasons, it will make lighting so much more pleasant. Smile

Sari33
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djozz wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

Same here, we are in a rented small house in the middle of a nature reserve for a few days, and my home-made lantern with 2000K E21A is my son’s nightlight.

Personally I’m not a great blue peak worrier, but I do welcome the “human centric lighting” shift of the industry, if not for health reasons, it will make lighting so much more pleasant. Smile


It’s really bad to see public and private places where was nice warm light replaced with low quality Leds
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Quote:
It’s really bad to see public and private places where was nice warm light replaced with low quality Leds

Yes unfortunately. The small house that we rent atm has all led lamps, I did not bring my spectrometer but judged from how the reds are rendered compared to my EDC (95CRI 3000K SST-20) they have CRI’s somewhere in the 80’s. Sad
Tally-ho
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djozz wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
The E21A 2000K produces less blue wavelengths than even incandescents. I leave it on as nightlight in my kids’ room

Same here, we are in a rented small house in the middle of a nature reserve for a few days, and my home-made lantern with 2000K E21A is my son’s nightlight.

Personally I’m not a great blue peak worrier, but I do welcome the “human centric lighting” shift of the industry, if not for health reasons, it will make lighting so much more pleasant. Smile


A rought but nice looking modded flashlight with a real sweet tint light !
bravo for le chic* of this lantern djozz !
It would have deserved an annual BLF/OL Contest’s entry.

Good old fashioned lumens Wink

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Thank you Tally-ho Smile . I failed to make pictures during the mod so the contest was out of reach. I hope for peaceful enough times ahead in my life so that I have the motivation for a nice entry for next year.

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Blue light is nothing compared to blue balls—for your eyes only. Wink

When you get replacement lens for your cataracts, they are UV protected. So no
Worries. For geezers.

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Some small green LEDs lights can wake me up after falling asleep, so I blocked them from being visible.
So far small red LEDs light have not woken me up from sleep.
This is the experience I have had personally so far.
Not much experience with pure blue light, except for like 1 week with a back-light on my keyboard.

hank
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Quote:
a peak sensitivity between 446-484 nm was identified. Under highly controlled exposure circumstances, less than 1 lux of monochromatic light elicited a significant suppression of nocturnal melatonin. In view of the possible link between light exposure, melatonin suppression and cancer risk,…

[emphasis added]

https://bluelightatnight.com/ocular-input-for-human-melatonin-regulation...

https://www.academia.edu/262795/Ocular_Input_for_Human_Melatonin_Regulat...

See also: https://bluelightatnight.com/the-problem-with-flux/ . (a reminder that the pump for LEDs is blue-white light, which is always present despite software filters like “f.lux” that change the apparent color temperature by mixing in a larger amount of red and yellow light on top of the basic blue-white)

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hank wrote:
Quote:
a peak sensitivity between 446-484 nm was identified. Under highly controlled exposure circumstances, less than 1 lux of monochromatic light elicited a significant suppression of nocturnal melatonin. In view of the possible link between light exposure, melatonin suppression and cancer risk,…

[emphasis added]

https://bluelightatnight.com/ocular-input-for-human-melatonin-regulation...

https://www.academia.edu/262795/Ocular_Input_for_Human_Melatonin_Regulat...

See also: https://bluelightatnight.com/the-problem-with-flux/ . (a reminder that the pump for LEDs is blue-white light, which is always present despite software filters like “f.lux” that change the apparent color temperature by mixing in a larger amount of red and yellow light on top of the basic blue-white)

I don’t believe there is anywhere near the necessary clinical and experimental evidence at this point to claim that there is a causal link between exposure to computer-generated light and cancer. While some melatonin suppression has been shown in very controlled experimental conditions in preliminary studies, the effect on sleep across the general population, if any, is not yet known.

hank
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It’s not “computer generated” light at issue — you get the same problem without computers.

Computers and phones are mentioned because many of them nowadays use either fluorescent or LED lights, both of which happen to have peak emission in the very narrow range that suppresses melatonin. And yes, LEDs are fluorescent light sources, driven by a blue-white emission moderated by one or more phosphors to shift the color temperature.

The light from, say, a monochrome VT100 green or amber screen would be computer generated light, but wouldn’t affect melatonin production.

https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/20/9789.long
“studies have suggested several mechanisms for the known effects of melatonin”

Much like tobacco, it took a long time before mechanisms were figured out to explain the observed correlation with cancer.

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Sunlight coming through a windows is hundreds of times more dangerous, not just blue but in the whole spectrum, so if you really are concerned about cancer you should probably lock yourself in a dark room.

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hank wrote:
It’s not “computer generated” light at issue — you get the same problem without computers.

Computers and phones are mentioned because many of them nowadays use either fluorescent or LED lights, both of which happen to have peak emission in the very narrow range that suppresses melatonin. And yes, LEDs are fluorescent light sources, driven by a blue-white emission moderated by one or more phosphors to shift the color temperature.

The light from, say, a monochrome VT100 green or amber screen would be computer generated light, but wouldn’t affect melatonin production.

https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/20/9789.long
“studies have suggested several mechanisms for the known effects of melatonin”

Much like tobacco, it took a long time before mechanisms were figured out to explain the observed correlation with cancer.

But if you look at the article cited in the original post, which is what most of us are commenting on in this thread, you can see it is computer and other human-generated light the thread is about. I think avoiding normal doses of nature-made blue light is possible only with eyeglasses or other lenses made for that purpose and worn when one is outside or near a window – but that comes with obvious drawbacks/costs.

Your comment about it taking a long time to figure out the mechanisms behind the observed correlation of tobacco with cancer is difficult to understand, in light of the fact that tobacco is not comparable to blue light from human sources. There is today no proven correlation between human-generated blue light and cancer at the levels most people are getting every day.

hank
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Quote:
There is today no proven correlation

You can look this stuff up. Seriously, the information is available.

The mechanisms are being worked out, e.g. if you read the linked article at https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/20/9789.long you saw this:

Quote:
melatonin can also bind its ML3 receptor, recently reported to be QR2. QR2 is a detoxifying enzyme, which, on induction, decreases the susceptibility to cancer initiation and progression

https://theconversation.com/harvard-study-strengthens-link-between-breas...
Harvard study strengthens link between breast cancer risk and light exposure at night
August 18, 2017 1.36pm EDT Updated August 21, 2017 12.16pm EDT

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454613/
Artificial Light at Night and Cancer: Global Study
Asian Pac J Cancer Prev. 2016; 17(10): 4661–4664.
doi: 10.22034/APJCP.2016.17.10.4661

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/health/led-streetlights-ama/
========

Melatonin levels increase after sunset and decrease again when daylight (or artificial light in the critical wavelengths) occurs.
Melatonin suppresses cancer, as well as controlling circadian rhythm and sleep.
It’s artificial light in the blue range at night that’s of concern here. Not daylight.

I often find it’s useful to put my opinion into a Google or Scholar search
like this: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scholar+light+night+cancer
before posting what I believe; often what I think I know turns out to be old information.

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hIKARInoob wrote:
Avoid blue light. Eat fresh veggies and fruits; avoid junk food. Don't smoke cigarettes. Exercise. Go to the gym. Take a bicycle to work. Do yoga. Meditate. You will still die.

 

LOL, I follow most of those... I just feel better on the journey. Yoga/meditation was and still is a lifesaver. Had a "hinge moment" just a month ago that made me stop the junk food and sugar. (pain doctor lowered the boom on diet vs. messed up back) More energy. Feel better. All of my joints feel much better, lost 15 lbs.

Just turned 65 so I'm taking the blue light thing seriously but not obsessively. Thanks for the article.

However...

"No one here gets out alive!" (Jim Morrison)   I don't worry 'bout that too much.

"I am the flashlight king! I can light anything!"

hank
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Yeah, we switch to low- or no-blue light in the evening, about 8PM, and doing that ended our “up til 1AM” insomnia problems.
Reading late into the evening under a cool white compact fluorescent was a big dose of blue light we did not need.
Now we use either amber-filtered CFLs or amber LED floodlights, ceiling bounced — ample evening light;
and Rosco theatrical filter gels in Canary or Goldenrod over the computer screens.

I’ve found the MrBeams amber lights quite useful — bright motion sensors, plenty of light for getting around without tripping over the dog.

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Phones these days has night mode , my iPhone turns night mode on at 23:00 and turns off at 07:00

It changes the screen to a warmer tint

It’s quite a different colour comparison to normal day mode
I might do an experiment for a week of night mode warmer tint screen and see if anything changes in my eyes

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OMG, LOL
for a moment there I actually thought you were talking about my beer! Shocked

Its not bad Beer

g

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hank wrote:
Yeah, we switch to low- or no-blue light in the evening, about 8PM, and doing that ended our “up til 1AM” insomnia problems.
Reading late into the evening under a cool white compact fluorescent was a big dose of blue light we did not need.
Now we use either amber-filtered CFLs or amber LED floodlights, ceiling bounced — ample evening light;
and Rosco theatrical filter gels in Canary or Goldenrod over the computer screens.

I’ve found the MrBeams amber lights quite useful — bright motion sensors, plenty of light for getting around without tripping over the dog.


https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/researchers-discover-when-its...
Yellow light is apparently worse than blue now, according to new studies…lol
forsh
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Enderman wrote:
hank wrote:
Yeah, we switch to low- or no-blue light in the evening, about 8PM, and doing that ended our “up til 1AM” insomnia problems.
Reading late into the evening under a cool white compact fluorescent was a big dose of blue light we did not need.
Now we use either amber-filtered CFLs or amber LED floodlights, ceiling bounced — ample evening light;
and Rosco theatrical filter gels in Canary or Goldenrod over the computer screens.

I’ve found the MrBeams amber lights quite useful — bright motion sensors, plenty of light for getting around without tripping over the dog.


https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/researchers-discover-when-its...
Yellow light is apparently worse than blue now, according to new studies…lol

yellow snow is also bad

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hank wrote:
Quote:
There is today no proven correlation

You can look this stuff up. Seriously, the information is available.

The mechanisms are being worked out, e.g. if you read the linked article at https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/20/9789.long you saw this:

Quote:
melatonin can also bind its ML3 receptor, recently reported to be QR2. QR2 is a detoxifying enzyme, which, on induction, decreases the susceptibility to cancer initiation and progression

https://theconversation.com/harvard-study-strengthens-link-between-breas...
Harvard study strengthens link between breast cancer risk and light exposure at night
August 18, 2017 1.36pm EDT Updated August 21, 2017 12.16pm EDT

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454613/
Artificial Light at Night and Cancer: Global Study
Asian Pac J Cancer Prev. 2016; 17(10): 4661–4664.
doi: 10.22034/APJCP.2016.17.10.4661

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/health/led-streetlights-ama/
========

Melatonin levels increase after sunset and decrease again when daylight (or artificial light in the critical wavelengths) occurs.
Melatonin suppresses cancer, as well as controlling circadian rhythm and sleep.
It’s artificial light in the blue range at night that’s of concern here. Not daylight.

I often find it’s useful to put my opinion into a Google or Scholar search
like this: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scholar+light+night+cancer
before posting what I believe; often what I think I know turns out to be old information.

If you look up the evidence related to the topic in this thread, rather than posting false statements and smears about what I have read or not read before commenting, you will see that what I’ve posted is correct. There is no scientifically established causal connection between artificial blue light and cancer in humans. The articles citing preliminary studies that you mentioned don’t change that.

hank
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Well, this quickly becomes a religious argument about what’s “scientifically causally proved” — been there, done that, no point.
As the Harvard page says, that epidemiological work is

Quote:
Of importance if confirmed in more studies ….

… The study is significant because it adds a strong piece of evidence to the growing body of studies supporting the idea that excessive electric light exposure at night increases a woman’s risk of breast cancer.

And yes, “no proven scientific mechanism” was the big tobacco argument for decades, until it wasn’t. And you’ll still find people who think it ain’t so.

=============

Mice wake up at dusk: Rats and mice are nocturnal with most activity taking place between approximately one half hour after sunset to about one half hour before sunrise. So it makes sense that their circadian clock timing should work as described.

=============

I’ve heard from researchers in the field that the LED industry is investing a lot of money in denial, too, I’d guess that’s because your basic blue-white LEDs are cheaper and easier to make than multiple-phosphor color corrected emitters, so the push is to sell the cheap ones. E.g. this, which I’d call obviously bogus:

Quote:

Cancer Causing Agents and Incandescent Bulbs

Incandescent bulbs deliver ultra violet rays, even if not in large amounts, these rays can contribute to cancer. In addition to ultra violet rays there are many other vapors and gasses that are omitted [sic] by incandescent light bulbs. These vapors have not been proven to cause cancer; however, they have been proven to contribute to a number of different illnesses. For these reasons alone, LED lights have been proven to be much safer.

Fluorescent Bulbs in Relation to Cancer

Not only do fluorescent lights deliver ultra violet rays that have been proven to cause cancer, but they also contain mercury which can cause a number of other health issues, such as headaches, fatigue, and dizziness….

djozz
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hank wrote:
And yes, “no proven scientific mechanism” was the big tobaccoargument for decades, until it wasn’t. And you’ll still find people who think it ain’t so.

What you seem to be doing is not very different from what the tobacco industry did: selectively look up studies that support your point of view and post the quotes. From your posts I get no idea what the concensus is in the scientific community about the subject.

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Enderman wrote:
hank wrote:
Yeah, we switch to low- or no-blue light in the evening, about 8PM, and doing that ended our “up til 1AM” insomnia problems.
Reading late into the evening under a cool white compact fluorescent was a big dose of blue light we did not need.
Now we use either amber-filtered CFLs or amber LED floodlights, ceiling bounced — ample evening light;
and Rosco theatrical filter gels in Canary or Goldenrod over the computer screens.

I’ve found the MrBeams amber lights quite useful — bright motion sensors, plenty of light for getting around without tripping over the dog.


https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/researchers-discover-when-its...
Yellow light is apparently worse than blue now, according to new studies…lol

As Hank stated above mice are nocturnal animals, which is the complete opposite of humans. I’m surprised this study didn’t mention this very important fact. Was it because of ignorance or did the researcher had any other intentions?

I’m not going to argue if blue light exposure at night time correlates with increased cancer risk. However, from my experience, using warm white light with very low blue wavelengths (E21A 9080 modded lights) at night, I often find myself getting sleepy much faster than with lights with higher blue wavelengths. Sometimes when I work into the wee hours, I ceiling bounce my CW flashlights and it works wonders in keeping me awake and alert.

Once after I repaired/upgraded Windows, it turned off my night light settings. For over a week, at night time I found my eyes irritated and squinting at the screen. When I realized the setting was turned off, I turned it back on and immediately felt the difference in my eyes. I no longer felt the need to squint due to eye strain.

Yes you can say it is anecdotal evidence but for me it is science because adjusting blue light exposure level has “repeatedly” made observable difference for “me” after continuous testing.

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