S2+ clone from Utorch

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djozz
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S2+ clone from Utorch

Look at that, they made sure to cause no confusion about the design Party
Considering how cheap and good Convoy has made them, I guess that there is no real market for an exact clone for the S2+ but I did order one from GB (they have a code btw) to see how far the cloning went. Anyone bought one already?

Edited by: djozz on 08/24/2018 - 06:38
maukka
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Djozz, you’re getting sloppy. Where’s the model number and link? Shocked

Or do you not want to support piracy? Wink

raccoon city
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Creating a thread about a specific product and not providing a link should be a ban-able offense.  :O

Don't make us ask, "Link?"

skinny_tie
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Is it definitely a clone and not a rebranded Convoy?

MascaratumB
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Utorch is definitely an – …how can I say it?… – innovative and revolutionary company in terms of design!! !!!

BTW, SF01 as posted here , looks another light too… Shocked

BTW, djozz, when you get it, please confirm what type of LED does it use, once the photos indicate a (maybe) XML2 led but the description says XPL Oops

Paul59
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Utorch Cree XPL V6

Edit: already mentioned here Big Smile

Jerommel
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Same host, different brand.

Q

djozz
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Big Smile something in between not wanting to support piracy and supporting it by telling the world, clearly my addiction is playing up here. Silly

Like linked above by Paul59 it is in the current GB deals list.

Phlogiston
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Yes, well, I won’t be buying any imitation Convoy lights.

I make a point of supporting Convoy by buying directly from their AliExpress store:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/330416

He who does the work should reap the rewards.

Pete7874
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Phlogiston wrote:
Yes, well, I won’t be buying any imitation Convoy lights.

I make a point of supporting Convoy by buying directly from their AliExpress store:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/330416

He who does the work should reap the rewards.


Do we know for sure that Convoy is the original inventor?

I mean – we are talking about cheap flashlights from China here, where everyone copies everyone to one extent or another.

Just saying…

djozz
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The S2+ is a tube-style 18650 light, when Convoy started there were many of them already, what Simon added is consistent quality and standard parts and that made his version so popular. It would be a bit silly if Utorch has made an exact copy in and out but if Utorch made internal changes I’m curious about their addition.

Jaded
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In other words, Convoy made the S2 tube-style design very popular. Too bad for the original creator, intellectual property laws or IP laws are non-existing in China, which means when a particular design becomes a hit among consumers, copycats will pop up everywhere and practically no one can complain and seek relief in court…unless of course, if the government intervenes and invoke its almighty police power in the name of the people. It’s very different over there.

d_t_a
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The Eagle Eye X2 / X2R also looks very similar to the Convoy S2+, isn’t it?

raccoon city
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Dealbreaker:

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eas
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Phlogiston wrote:
Yes, well, I won’t be buying any imitation Convoy lights.

I make a point of supporting Convoy by buying directly from their AliExpress store:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/330416

He who does the work should reap the rewards.

You think Simon doesn’t reap the rewards when someone buys from one of Simon’s wholesale customers?

In the time it takes Simon to sell a few lights to a few BLF members, he could take an order for 500 lights from Banggood, etc.

Buy them where you want, but the idea that buying a genuine convoy light (or even a rebranded convoy) isn’t supporting Simon’s business is pervasive and dubious.

As for what this UTorch thing is… buyer beware.

.

toddcshoe
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I ordered two of them a few weeks ago. They weren’t in stock yet but got an email yesterday saying they shipped. Like $15 for two of them. Figured I could put them in with my camping gear for the kids even if they only work even fairly well.

eas
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Jaded wrote:
In other words, Convoy made the S2 tube-style design very popular. Too bad for the original creator, intellectual property laws or IP laws are non-existing in China, which means when a particular design becomes a hit among consumers, copycats will pop up everywhere and practically no one can complain and seek relief in court…unless of course, if the government intervenes and invoke its almighty police power in the name of the people. It’s very different over there.

Original creator? If China was a longtime and enthusiastic participant in the international IP system that the US plays in, how would things be different? What original IP could the original creator have laid claim to? What pre-existing patents would they have had to avoid or negotiate in order to bring a product to market without getting sued?

It is very unlikely that there is some original creator who got screwed. There were 18650 batteries, domed LED emitters and small shops with a few machine tools, combining the two as cheaply as possible.

.

Phlogiston
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eas wrote:
Phlogiston wrote:
Yes, well, I won’t be buying any imitation Convoy lights.

I make a point of supporting Convoy by buying directly from their AliExpress store:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/330416

He who does the work should reap the rewards.

You think Simon doesn’t reap the rewards when someone buys from one of Simon’s wholesale customers?

In the time it takes Simon to sell a few lights to a few BLF members, he could take an order for 500 lights from Banggood, etc.

Buy them where you want, but the idea that buying a genuine convoy light (or even a rebranded convoy) isn’t supporting Simon’s business is pervasive and dubious.

As for what this UTorch thing is… buyer beware.

You can argue that one either way, because it depends on the profit margin per light and, as you say, the time consumed to acquire that profit.

I’m fairly sure that Simon will make more per light when I buy them direct from him, because he doesn’t have to sacrifice some of his profit to cover the middleman’s own costs and profit margin.

The question, of course, is whether he makes more per hour processing small, higher margin orders from the likes of me, or large, lower margin orders from the likes of Banggood. I tend to presume that he wouldn’t run his own Convoy shop if it didn’t bring him at least a similar hourly income.

A Convoy L4 is on its way to me as we speak Smile

TBone
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You could set the Memory to Strobe and give the light to somebody you do not like. Party

Jaded
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eas wrote:
Jaded wrote:
In other words, Convoy made the S2 tube-style design very popular. Too bad for the original creator, intellectual property laws or IP laws are non-existing in China, which means when a particular design becomes a hit among consumers, copycats will pop up everywhere and practically no one can complain and seek relief in court…unless of course, if the government intervenes and invoke its almighty police power in the name of the people. It’s very different over there.

Original creator? If China was a longtime and enthusiastic participant in the international IP system that the US plays in, how would things be different? What original IP could the original creator have laid claim to? What pre-existing patents would they have had to avoid or negotiate in order to bring a product to market without getting sued?

It is very unlikely that there is some original creator who got screwed. There were 18650 batteries, domed LED emitters and small shops with a few machine tools, combining the two as cheaply as possible.

I’m not talking about the inventor of modern flashlight. Facepalm
I’m talking about the Convoy S2+ 18650 tube-style flashlight as a utility model or as a commercial-industrial design, which could qualify for registration in most IP laws of Western countries.

For the sake of discussion, let’s say both Convoy and Utorch are both American companies. Both are domestic corporations duly registered under U.S laws, with principal place of business in the U.S., meaning the U.S. government has full jurisdiction. Let’s say Convoy was the first ever to manufacture and sell the distinct S2+ 18650 tube-style flashlight. Let’s say this particular product became an instant hit in the global market and because of its immense popularity, the S2+ became synonymous with the brand Convoy. This motivated the company to secure registration of their utility model with the appropriate government agency. When a similar company like Utorch manufactures and sells exactly the same S2+ 18650 tube-style flashlight without securing prior written approval, a scenario like this can make Convoy go to court and argue about unfair competition or even infringement of intellectual property right.

This is what I meant when I said it’s different over there in China. There is no established, rigid system of laws that can absolutely protect and enforce IP laws. Don’t give me the argument that China is an enthusiastic participant or signatory to IP treaties. Any treaty or convention among nations (to which China is a an enthusiastic participant) can only have the force and effect of law only if the government of China is willing to fully enforce it. On paper, yes. China is a signatory to many treaties, including IP laws, but let’s face it…Compliance to the terms of a treaty is more voluntary, than mandatory. In reality, treaties among nations are more like gentlemen’s agreements among nations, formed on the basis of mutual respect, cooperation and reciprocity. You simply cannot compel a foreign government to enforce your own system of laws.

Jerommel
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The models C8 and S2+ are old designs.
Convoy has these in matte / flat black.
But i’ve seen the same C8 from Sofirn store without a brand on it (discontinued now).
Now we have an S2+ branded Utorch.
I guess they come from the same factory, only Convoy has “Convoy” engraved on it, and Utorch has “Utorch” engraved on it.
ThorFire has a C8 that seems to be the same as the Convoy, but with a different tailcap.
So, many brands order hosts from a factory who can probably engrave them with whatever the customer wishes.

Q

djozz
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I do not see much about the S2+ design that is very unique, even if the laws allow to patent it by using some clever language I still do not think that is what the law was intended for. The S2+ is an extremy nondescript boring design that became popular not because of its design (that was far from new btw) but because of good price, consistent quality, a wide choice of emitters and a good choice of pretty good drivers. Well done Convoy, and good luck Utorch getting the same done.

If I would be Utorch I would make a fresh and somewhat more interesting design for my tube-style 18650 light than the S2+ (and a SS bezel to start with).

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Lot’s of folks on the internet that are armchair lawyer’s.
Wanna be a real lawyer, sign up for law school and have at it.

Tube lights have been around way before Convoy put some knurling on them.
How do you know this wasn’t done with Convoy’s blessing to use up some old black stock now that the colored versions are selling well?
Either way, BFD, none of our business.

You want Convoy?, buy it, you want to try Utorch, buy it.

Just thank your lucky stars Apple didn’t create the S2 because it would have proprietary battery and protected coding to prevent modding without big hassles. Smile

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YouTube user Chiinnature uploaded a review of the Utorch XPL V6 and the SF01: https://youtu.be/wF3ukh92xGE

toddcshoe
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I bought like 5 of them now. Got em for $7 a piece when they first came out on the app. Put a A6 driver in one and in the process of putting some 7135X8’s in the others. Beam and tint are great, just the driver sucked. Completely worth the little extra effort.

Great YouTube review. That guy was cracking me up.

ggf31416
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Is the original driver soldered and the pill easy to remove?

Edit: beyond the blinky modes, what makes the driver ‘bad’, compared with a 3/5 convoy driver?

toddcshoe
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ggf31416 wrote:
Is the original driver soldered and the pill easy to remove?

Pill is super easy to remove and the driver is just held in with a retaining ring. No solder. Had to solder the new drivers in but getting the old ones out was a breeze.

ggf31416
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Beyond the blinky modes, what makes the driver ‘bad’, compared with a 3/5 convoy driver or the typical 105C?

toddcshoe
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ggf31416 wrote:
Beyond the blinky modes, what makes the driver ‘bad’, compared with a 3/5 convoy driver or the typical 105C?

Oh the driver works just fine. I probably shouldn’t have called it bad, just not my liking. The blinky modes in the mode set drives me batty. Medium and high are a bit too close in output for my liking. Other than that it works just fine. Nothing wrong with it out of the box. I just wanted to get rid of the blinky’s.

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For the price its not bad for giveaway for friends who wants to own a ‘decent’ light. And maybe you can put one in the garage one in bathroom on in the kitchen etc

FL Newbie

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Agreeing with above. Convoy are NOW. well made. reliable and fairlty cheap.
I bought 3 coloured S2’s for $9 something last week for kids. Boring as, but will do a good job.
Every time you press the sw. Yeay. Light… Unlike some I’ve bought.
Same with their C8’s . and the L2/L6 are as good as anything else I’ve seen on market.
I tried a coupla U-Torches but passed them on. Didn’t suit. Shape and feel mainly.
I’ve sealed/potted half a doz of my drivers on the better ones.
Used “ceramic Epoxy” white. has no Metallic anything in there. completely inert.
Just leave open O/Night to go off.
Just mix. drip on, then leave stand on bench. Simple.
Time will tell.

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