Novatac flickers, low battery, full battery, primary battery

47 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
Novatac flickers, low battery, full battery, primary battery

Novatac flicker, visible with naked eye, and also on camera, on lowest mode, when 16340 battery goes below 3.6v


—-

Novatac flicker on lowest mode, when 16340 battery is fully charged.

Not visible to naked eye, (unless waving the light), yes visible on camera, both still shot and video.

—-

Novatac flicker on lowest mode, Visible to naked eye when waving, with full 16340 battery. Can be captured on Video and Still shot, with some difficulty.


this photo is one of the video frames:

Note this is Constant Current Flicker, not PWM.

Edited by: jon_slider on 09/30/2018 - 02:31
Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 1291
Location: France

I remember that the flickering was a problem that many encountered with Novatac flashlights…Did you tried a “battery detect reset” ?

EDIT : copy/past from CPF

Quote:
I prepared myself to the idea of returning a faulty flashlight but I tried a last thing: a battery-detect-reset* with 16340 within = no more flickering.

Battery-Detect-Reset*

Battery-Detect-Reset will not change any personal settings. Required when changing to or from a rechargeable battery. A rechargeable battery must be fully charged before installation.
1. Turn the light on.
2. Unscrew the battery case until the light turns off.
3. Screw the battery case back together; there will be one second of dim light.
4. During the one second of dim light, press and hold the button.
5. You will see five seconds of bright light, followed by dim light.
6. Release the button when the light goes dim.
7. The Battery-Detect-Reset is complete.
If the button is released during the brighter light period, the Error Flash Sequence of six rapid flashes will be displayed and the light will not detect the new battery configuration. If there is insufficient power to remember the detected configuration you will see two seconds of very rapid flashing. The battery configuration will not be detected and damage may occur to rechargeable batteries.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
Tally-ho wrote:
I remember that the flickering was a problem that many encountered with Novatac flashlights…Did you tried a “battery detect reset” ?

I believe what people were reporting is the behavior Im documenting in this thread, when the battery goes below 3.6v

Yes, the battery detection of the light I am testing, a Novatac SPA Defense 120T, is set to 16340.

If I insert a CR123, below 3v, the light steps down through all higher modes, and goes into visible lowest mode strobing and will not produce any of the other brighter modes. This is also true with the 16340 below 3v.

The point of this thread is that below 3.6v there is also a visible flicker signal, that can be used as a reminder to charge the battery, before losing access to all the other modes. The flicker Im posting about, just below 3.6v is separate from the Low Voltage Warnings, that start at 3.0v

a note about the battery detect reset on Novatacs
because the instructions require holding the button during the dim light that only lasts 1 second when the tailcap is tightened, I find it easier to simply hold the button when tightening the tailcap. But, be sure to release the button after 5 seconds, this will only reset battery detection. IF the button is held for 10 seconds, it causes a Factory Reset, and the 250 clicks will be required to reenable Programming.

iow, my Novatac 120T is cracked to act like a 120P.

FWIW, battery resets are not automatic, and the Novatac STAYS in 16340 detection mode, even after multiple battery swaps, even if the battery is removed to check for voltage, and it falls below 3v.

On a modern HDS, you cannot open the light and reinsert a LiIon that tests below 3v, or it will reset the battery detection automatically to CR123 Primary, thereby causing OVERDISCHARGE of the LiIon. This is why I prefer to use Protected LiIon, and I do NOT rely on the Low Voltage Protection built into an HDS, or Novatac. The Novatac remembers its 16340 setting, and an HDS will “forget it”, when inserting a LiIon below 3v.

FWIW, My Novatac will also flicker both visibly and photographable, when set to its 5.4 lumen mode. It does this even on a fully charged battery. The bottom line is Novatacs have lots of different Flicker Features Smile

Lithium
Lithium's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2012 - 06:01
Posts: 256
Location: Brittany

Actually, I think you can on a HDS, if for example you’re running a RCR123 and you switch to a CR123A within the 60s delay (for soft reset), the light simply won’t switch on….so if you open and close it within 60s with a depleted 16340, you’re still good to go !

But the contrary isn’t true, if you switch from a CR123A to a 16340, the light will immediately notice the difference (same behavior as the Novatac BTW).

The Novatac forces you to do a battery reset, the HDS does it automatically, but you have a 60s “grace” delay.

One thing that could be interesting to see on Novatac (if you’re eager to redo a 250 click routine to enable programming) could be to try if it can blink out it’s firmware version like the HDS. On the HDS you have to remove the battery 60s (or open the light while it’s on), then hold the button while screwing the battery tube. It will switch on dimly, then brighter for 10s, then go off for 10s (hold the button !), then after 10s should start blinking it’s firmware number, until you unscrew the battery compartment (number displayed with button clicked should be the version, for example 1.23, and the value displayed with the button released could be the lumen value rounded to 2 digit. My 100HC gives 10, then 1.23, my 140 gives 14, then 2.11. The button only has function for versions 1.xx.
(since the legacy clicky can be version 1.22 or 1.23, I guess Novatac could be like version 1.10 or something). To be tested on a “real” 120P, where you don’t need to click 250 times !

Sorry this is off topic. The Novatac also has a tendency to flicker more on CR123A than 16340.

Want DC-fix? PM me!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
Lithium wrote:
One thing that could be interesting to see on Novatac (if you’re eager to redo a 250 click routine to enable programming) could be to try if it can blink out it’s firmware version like the HDS. On the HDS you have to remove the battery 60s (or open the light while it’s on), then hold the button while screwing the battery tube. It will switch on dimly, then brighter for 10s, then go off for 10s (hold the button !), then after 10s should start blinking it’s firmware number

LOL, nope, not gonna do a factory reset
so, not likely to determine the Firmware version of my Novatac

I definitely appreciate your posts, no hijack at all, Im grateful to learn more from your experience with HDS, I have only tried a Novatac so far

suffice to say Novatac gives ample low battery warnings:
1. when the battery goes below 3.6v, low mode will flicker visibly, but other modes will still function
2. when the battery goes below 3v, low mode will strobe visibly, and no other modes will be available

then there is the meaningless visible flicker at 5 lumens, which is always there, regardless how full the battery is

I have no interest in using CR123, I dislike how they smell.
I am very happy with Protected 16340, no matter what the Novatac tries to do, it cannot overdischarge a protected cell.

I like Protection, and particularly the USB rechargeable Protected cells from Olight:

I recommend against the Fenix USB rechargeable version due to excess length.
CR123 Primary on left, Olight protected USB rechargeable 16340 middle, Fenix protected USB rechargeable16340 on right:

Lithium
Lithium's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2012 - 06:01
Posts: 256
Location: Brittany

It is true that CR123A smell! I have a bunch of them, need to use them before they expire…16340 have little capacity. Good thing with Novatac is you can perhaps using 18350 batteries, replacing the spring by a brass/aluminum contact bar.

Will try to have my Novatac blink out its version.

Want DC-fix? PM me!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Lithium wrote:
16340 have little capacity.

yes, about half of a CR123 Primary
they last a long time for me, as I dont use the maximum mode hardly at all. Most of my use is below 20 lumens and indoors.

Firmware versions are a new topic for me. I dont know what features they offer. Will be curious to learn more from you about that.

Lithium
Lithium's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2012 - 06:01
Posts: 256
Location: Brittany

It’s mostly hidden features, like a supposed better efficiency…also some change in the programming, the way the menu work the way the low battery indicator works. Also bug corrections !
I don’t know much about that, you have some details,on the HDS website, I can only see the visible part of the iceberg : electronic lockout, low battery indicator, and starting firmware 2.10 (or 2.11 ?), the soft start when the light has been off for a while. The, you can enter the details of the default programming, tactical modes, etc…I think the last 2.18 offers the best compromise so far Smile

Want DC-fix? PM me!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Lithium wrote:
efficiency

Ive read that Novatacs have “much shorter runtimes on the low settings” than HDS EDC models

Novatacs vary widely in runtime between each other too.. 4 samples with different runtimes (also not calibrated to the same levels)
pic is a link

.

meanwhile, I did a little exercise to determine at what lumen level my camera can no longer capture Novatac SPA Flicker.. the answer is, above 7 lumens, no Photo flicker.. noticeably different scan lines at 0.4 and 5 lumens…

.

and other fascinating trivia.. check out this Driver and UI description, doesnt it sound like HDS/Novatac?

Programming: Each mode can be configured to a one of the 24 available (visually linear) levels of brightness. There are also some special functions which can be configured to any brightnes level, too: strobe, beacon

Battery monitoring: Whenever the battery falls below 3V under load, brightness is reduced (about half). The reduced load usually brings up the voltage a bit. When it drops below 3V again, brightness is halved again – and so on, down to a very low level. It will not switch off and leave you in complete darkness.

thats actually H17f w lucidrv2
I wonder if H17f driver eliminates the Flicker the camera sees on Novatacs?
pic is a link

Lithium
Lithium's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2012 - 06:01
Posts: 256
Location: Brittany

Well, since the h17fw is using linear 7135 chips, it means the dimming is PWM (although it seems to switch to an only 7135 350mA for the moonlight modes). Maybe the PWM is fast enough so you can’t detect it ?

Want DC-fix? PM me!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
Lithium wrote:
Well, since the h17fw is using linear 7135 chips, it means the dimming is PWM (although it seems to switch to an only 7135 350mA for the moonlight modes). Maybe the PWM is fast enough so you can’t detect it ?

yes,
it would be intertesting to see a Novatac modded to Triple Nichia, w H17f driver. I believe CRX has built one like that for ven

The H17f driver seems to have some very similar features to the Novatac driver, including 24 power levels that each increase at the same rate that HDS ramping does. And like the Novatac, the H17f driver has a 3v low battery step down.. I wonder if HDS drivers are built by Dr. Jones?;-)

re the PWM, the H17f driver link says:
“16 kHz PWM frequency: Invisible and inaudible.”

the fastest I can detect with my eyes seems to be 2kHz

given that the stock Novatac driver flickers visibly, as well as on camera, my guess is it oscillates at less than 2kHz.., technically Novatac Flicker is not from PWM, its from Constant Current Ripple.. same difference, it causes photo interference, and is visible to my trained eye.

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1424
Location: Germany

Yes, Novatacs flicker in the lowest mode. My Wichita also does this. A guy on CPF who worked for Novatac acknowledged this problem in one of his posts.

ven
ven's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2016 - 11:39
Posts: 680
Location: Manchester

I have a few h17f’s Jon, in fact one of my fav drivers all this time on. Not in a Novatac though, I enjoy the beam as is ,with a nichia transplant thanks to CRX. It’s a good general use all rounder for me.

You can detect with a camera, but more importantly not by eye(for me anyway).

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
ven wrote:
I have a few h17f’s Jon, … You can detect with a camera, but more importantly not by eye(for me anyway).

excellent info ven, very helpful
@16kHz the PWM on the H17f is outside my vision range too
I can only detect visibly, up to 2kHz, as in my Olight S Mini on lowest mode

Im not as bad a flicker snob as I once was
I even tolerate the Novatac flicker now… in fact, I use it as a “recharge the battery” indicator, since the flicker becomes obvious to me, when the battery goes below 3.6v

I have also figured out which modes on the Novatac flicker Visibly, the most. I can avoid those levels.. the 5 lumen, and lowest low, are the worst Visible flicker sources. I can see the dots on lowest mode if I wave the light to check, but, LightWaving is not a primary use for me.. LOL.. I have mellowed with age, and dont wave my lights as much as I used to.. Wink

Your CRX modded Novatacs have inspired me to pursue a single N219b mod, despite the NovaFlicker features.

I find the Novatac a really fun little programmable.. It has one of the throwiest beams in my selection.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
The_Driver wrote:
Yes, Novatacs flicker in the lowest mode. My Wichita also does this. A guy on CPF who worked for Novatac acknowledged this problem in one of his posts.

My Novatac SPA 120T also likes to flicker on the 5 lumen level when the 16340 goes below 3.6v..

There is deep history regarding various types of HDS and Novatac flicker, here’s Henry talking about it, back in 2008

Some Flicker is Visible to some people, while others wont notice. Separate from Visible, there is also Flicker that can be photographed but is not Visible to the naked eye. I tolerate visible flicker in some lights, because I want to enjoy some of their other features. I feel that way about my Novatac, I like the UI, and I tolerate the flicker.

For reference here is a current model, 2018 HDS Flicker reference

maukka wrote:
I noticed some flicker on the lower levels 1-6 on my light. If someone’s interested in the output behavior measured OTF, here’s what it looks like. Measured levels 4 through 24. Sensor sensitivity / scope resolution not high enough for the lowest levels which also explains the low bit depth on the low levels.” The snob index”:http://budgetlightforum.com/node/57087 of 5%+ usually indicates that you can notice the flicker if you know how to search for it. 20%+ is getting to the distracting territory. The flicker on the HDS will probably never be visible in normal use.

https://imgur.com/a/vWucy5e

here is one of the HDS flicker measurements maukka posted in the above link

Here is an Olight S Mini, also from a post by maukka, to whom Im very grateful.

both of those Flicker rates can be visible to some people, but most wont notice.

Cereal_killer
Cereal_killer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min ago
Joined: 07/22/2013 - 13:10
Posts: 3917
Location: Ohio
jon_slider wrote:
Lithium wrote:
16340 have little capacity.
yes, about half of a CR123 Primary…snip

More like two thirds. Since the voltage is different you can’t directly compare rated mAh, you have to compare watt-hours.
1500mAh CR123 =4.5Wh
700mAh 16350 = 2.59Wh
880mAh 16340 = 2.96Wh
Let’s average the best capacity and best output 16340s and we get ~790mAh.

The Wh of a 16340 with 790mAh rated capacity would be 2.92Wh which is 64.888% of 4.5Wh or ~2/3 the capacity.

I find in my use of 16340 / CR123 lights (not much) I greatly prefer the ability to charge the batteries and the increased output over that ~33% extra capacity. Infact I don’t notice the reduced capacity IRL at all.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

chadvone
chadvone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 08/28/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 1829
Location: Iowa

The Novatacs are one of my all time favorite lights. Had a few modded ones, modded a few myself. Did the bar trick for 18650.

I lost one and it bothered me so much I sold all but 2. Gave one to stepson and other is still in blister pack.

The H17F driver is a clicky switch driver, I couldn’t find room for a switch.

NOW this new driver that is coming out in the FW3A might be a option.

Make sure your positive spring doesn’t have the end of the spring exposed, I screwed a few into the holes on some cells.

If you do the bar trick, be carefull, I believe its how I killed a couple switches.

If anyone reading this bought I Novatac triple from me and wants to sell it back, Please PM me.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
Cereal_killer wrote:
More like two thirds. … I greatly prefer the ability to charge the batteries and the increased output over that ~33% extra capacity. Infact I don’t notice the reduced capacity IRL at all.

thanks, I like that
I dont find 16340 short lived, I came from AAA
I still use the same levels, under 50 lumens, they just last longer w 16340

chadvone wrote:
Novatac triple

thanks for the driver info.. Im actually a bit loyal to the Novatac UI atm

Ive been researching triple options, I just learned that
1. datiLED will mod a Nova to a triple, PM him
he uses a lathe to custom build a heatsink.. quality all the way

2. you can buy a Novatac SPA on Ebay, there are several

here is how one guy rolls his own triple, that has inspired my research
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1116907#comment-1116907

lumenzilla wrote:

Sorry I forgot to take picture during the process, but here’s the final result.

I use a coin sized copper as the base (heat dissipation won’t be great though) and using rubber silicon to wrap 20 mm TIR optic to fit the host.

Triple nichias and optic were bought from Kaidomain.

here is the preloaded 219c 5000k board he used for a cheap and dirty mod, no lathe work..

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r9050-d240-...

I would suggest a medium frost optic instead of narrow clear…

chadvone
chadvone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 08/28/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 1829
Location: Iowa

Its a great UI.
H17f can be set up to come close. Minus press-hold.

ven
ven's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2016 - 11:39
Posts: 680
Location: Manchester

I dont like PWM either, or certainly when i can see it Jon. I can not or will not have a light i can see flicker! Simple as that, luckily most(pretty much all i have thinking about it)that have PWM , i can not see it. To me thats what matters, if i can not see it, no distraction…………..not a problem for me. Malkoff(iirc the 3 mode) have PWM, again can not see it.
The 47’s mini have it on high , which i find kind of odd, now and then i can kind of pick something up. But i rarely use max anyway, so no big deal.

As with chadvone, the little novatacs are one of my all time fav lights. I just like the older designs, the feel/look and beam.

Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon, too add to the family Silly

219b 4000k/219c 5000k/219b 4000k

lumenzilla
lumenzilla's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 06/09/2015 - 04:18
Posts: 712
Location: DIY, Indonesia

jon_slider][quote=Cereal_killer wrote:

here is the preloaded 219c 5000k board he used for a cheap and dirty mod, no lathe work..

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r9050-d240-...

I would suggest a medium frost optic instead of narrow clear…

Well, I was using cheaper method back then, using Kaidomain’s triple Nichias.

Here’s my second attempt (left picture) using Noctigon and Carclo from Intl Outdoor.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnTf5FGgcgh/?taken-by=lumenzilla

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

ven wrote:
Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon

yes, and a triple Tana Haiku, and a Sundrop
so many lights, so little money.. LOL

lumenzilla wrote:
I was using cheaper method back then, using Kaidomain’s triple Nichias .

Here’s my second attempt (left picture) using Noctigon and Carclo from Intl Outdoor.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnTf5FGgcgh/?taken-by=lumenzilla

thanks for sharing info, I fixed your Kaidomain link, I see it was a 4000k N219c
while the one from International Outdoor is a 5000k 219c

Your triple mods are an inspiration to me.

Do you have any preferences between the 4000k and 5000k LEDs you tried?
Can you please also share your thoughts, and a link, for which Carclo lens you like?

ven
ven's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2016 - 11:39
Posts: 680
Location: Manchester

jon_slider wrote:
ven wrote:
Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon

yes, and a triple Tana Haiku, and a Sundrop
so many lights, so little money.. LOL

You read my mind! Silly

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

lol

I wish Novatac had a battery charge level indicator

Here is another type of Flicker,
the Novatac Low 16340 Battery Warning, its actually a flashing mode, on the lowest setting.

With 1634O detected, installing a cr123 also causes the light to step down to a flashing low mode.

That is the 16340 low battery warning being triggered by a 3v Primary cell.

Novatac battery detection is memorized.
Battery Detection is not automatic.

Here are the battery detect instructions for Novatac.
Battery Detect Reset is needed to switch between Primary batteries and 16340.

—-
https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/NovaTac/NovaTacUsersGuide.pdf

NovaTac 85P/120P Flashlight User’s Guide
Copyright 2013 by Henry Schneiker All rights reserved
August 8, 2013
—-
Soft-Reset – fix an unresponsive state or part of a higher level reset. If your light is working normally, turn your light on and unscrew the battery case until the light goes out, count to three and then screw the battery case back together. If your light is in an unresponsive state, remove the batteries for 2 minutes and then reinstall them. Identified by 1 second of dim light. Does not change your settings.

Battery-Detect-Reset – required to detect battery configuration changes. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 5 seconds until your light dims. Release the button when your light dims. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light followed by dim light. Does not change your settings.
—-
How I do it
1. turn on light, with full battery of your choice, 16340 or Primary
2. unscrew tail cap a couple of turns, til light turns off
3. Hold the button and screw tail tight (hold button because its easier than trying to catch a 1 second dim light signal), keep holding for 5 seconds of bright light, let go when the light goes dim.

done!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Novatac Gold Storm Flicker report

Today My Storm decided to inform me, prematurely, that it would be good to recharge the battery:



Thereby becoming a candidate for a driver swap, possibly to H17f.. or signal spring eliminator:
CRX wrote:
I made a prototype brass sleeve to contain a copper sliding bar with a spring on the end so the light can run on 18350 cells and dispense with the signal spring.

HDS decided to turn the Flicker into a feature, not a bug, lol

update
upon further investigation, suspecting a problem with the signal spring shorting to ground, I slapped the light around a few times, and she got turned ON! I just cannot abide a masochist, so I grabbed a Q-Tip and some Alcohol, and proceeded to rectify the situation.

Problem solved.

Note dirty contacts, and flicker, are a documented point of failure in HDS designs that use a signal spring such as the B42 and U60 that preceded the Novatac:

B42 manual https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/EdcBasic/EdcBasicUsersGuide.pdf
“Note: you may notice a slight flicker on the Minimum brightness setting. This is normal. “

U60 manual: https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/EdcUltimate/EdcUltimateUsersG...
“Note: you may notice a slight flicker on the very low brightness levels. This is normal.”

.

elsewhere in the manual, in reference to low batteries it says:
“The same behavior can also occur if the battery contacts become dirty. Gently wiping the battery contacts with a clean dry cloth is normally sufficient to remove dirt. If in doubt, please replace your batteries.”

So I decided to clean the contacts, and after that I could no longer turn the light ON by slapping it.

..

Note to self, too much lubricant can ground the switch signal wire erratically..

fwiw, I have also had twisties become flickery and unreliable after too much lubrication, and the solution was the same, clean the contacts..

this is not an HDS/Novatac specific issue.. Too Much Lube is Bad!

chadvone
chadvone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 08/28/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 1829
Location: Iowa

Just checked my Novatac 120E. It has horrible flicker,buzz, noise, etc etc.
Doesn’t matter what cell or what battery configured.

Might make a good host for a mode someday.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia
chadvone wrote:
Just checked my Novatac 120E. It has horrible flicker,buzz, noise

sad, but glad you have something to work on Smile

So far every single flicker incident I have had with my 4 Novatac, and 1 EDC Basic (body tube), was traced back to the signal spring shorting out

cleaning the contacts, and replacing, or reseating the spring has solved the issues.. for me
Unique Titanium has springs for $4

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Ok, Another Novatac Gold Storm Flicker report

today the light started flickering at the 13 lumen level, same as described in Post 25. Like last time, it also flickered on minimum.. Im talking about flicker so obvious a child could see it… not just something my snobby trained eyes can detect in rare circumstances.. I mean like, no, I cant use this light like this, kind of flicker.

Nothing I tried solved the problem, not a flash of high mode, not cleaning all the contacts again, not slapping it.. nothing.. this light just Flickers!

The flicker went away when I installed a fresh battery.

The one I took out was at 3.82v.. note that yesterdays flicker report was coincidentally at a very similar voltage, 3.84v. Two different 16340 batteries. My current belief is that this Novatac just does not like 3.8x volts. It works without flickering at lower voltages, including on Primary batteries…

fwiw, I started this thread with a report of Visible flickering on a different Novatac, in that one the battery was at 3.57v.

So, it seems as though there is a Flicker issue with the Novatac circuit, when a LiIon is about 1/2 discharged, not just on one light.

.

I did already do a battery detect reset for LiIon prior to the last 2 Flicker events.
there is more detail about that in this thread
Novatac LiIon Low Battery Voltage Warning System features

At this point I dont think this Flickering is an issue that can be eliminated.
imo The solution is simply to use a fresh battery.

Its a Feature, not a Bug
An undocumented Low Voltage Warning

if there was a line in the manual that said something like:

Note, when using LiIon below 3.85v, the light will flicker to remind you to replace and recharge.

it would have saved me a lot of grief

Im moving on from Clicky UI’s
My next adventure is to experience the HDS Rotary interface.. stay tuned for those Investigative Reports of flickers, tints, beams, ergonomics, and UI’s Smile

Now that the Gold Storm is out of my pocket, what took its place?
I went back to my Utorch S1 Mini, modded w N219b 4500k 9080
I love the Aspheric Beam! I call it my Budget Sundrop

Its the one in the middle:

and on the left:

totally different beam, size, weight, than the Novatac.. each has its pros and cons.. choices are good

.

New Experiment

I changed the Battery Detection on the Gold Storm to Primary

ran the light on its maxiumum of about 85 lumens for 35 minutes, and got the battery down to 3.84 volts.

turned the light on at 13 lumens, and it started to flicker,


just like when it was set to LiIon Battery detect

sooo.. I ran it on high for another 5 minutes, to see if I can have some NoFlicker time, below 3.84v..

YES! after 5 minutes on high the battery is at 3.77v and the light does not flicker on the 13 lumen mode anymore

so, the type of battery detection has nothing to do with the 3.8x flicker, and it not only has an identifyable start of flicker voltage, theres a point after which it no longer flickers.. about 5 minutes on high, or less..

so I reset battery detection to LiIon

and to confirm it was enabled I inserted a battery that was at 3.04 v and as expected, the light stepped down from High and refused to give more than 27 lumens.. I knew where this was headed.. to the 3v low mode blinking, where no other mode works..

then, to see if I could get under the low voltage blinks, I inserted a battery at 2.92 volts and found it would power the light with no low voltage warning.. except that it stepped down to 64 lumens, and would not give more, but it also did not blink or flash

so again, there is a cut off below which the Low Voltage warning stops interfering with normal use..

.
moral of the story, if a Novatac blinks at you when the battery is up around 3.8v, and you want it to stop, force high mode for a while, maybe it will get over its need for attention..

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Todays Update

since it is now clear to me that the Gold Storm has a LiIon flicker problem at 3.84v, I have decided not to use LiIon in this light.

I reset the battery detect to Primary, and inserted a Primary CR123… all is well.. No Flicker to report today.

In this Battery Detect mode, there will be NO Low Voltage warning at 3v either. I can still use LiIon, and since I only use Protected cells, it matters not at all, to me, that the 3v Low Voltage Blinking is DisAbled.

In fact, its better with NO LiIon Battery Detection, since I can use a 3v primary without ending up with a light that is Blinking on Lowest mode.

On to the next Adventures!:-)

Lithium
Lithium's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2012 - 06:01
Posts: 256
Location: Brittany

Jon,

Please send that Gold Novatac to me, I’m willing to make it a triple with H17f driver…or probably more realistically, keep the single led and just change the driver Big Smile

Want DC-fix? PM me!

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 51 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 2342
Location: Crowdifornia

Thanks for the offer to help. Very much appreciated.

I will think on that H17f after i hear how the black 120t works out. I have been offered the stock driver that CRX is replacing w H17f

Pages