Tesla sanyo NCR21700A 5000mah amazing power beat samsung 21700 48G

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vapcell Dennis
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Tesla sanyo NCR21700A 5000mah amazing power beat samsung 21700 48G

Share our test results of Tesla sanyo NCR21700A 5000mah 15A

Some people also think this battery is Panasonic 21700A,not Sanyo

We have original packaging, with Sanyo markings.

Welcome to discuss Cool

Comparison of discharge performance with other batteries

It can be knowed that this is a very excellent medium rate discharge battery with 5000mAh.

It beat Samsung 48G, 50E, LG M50, Sanyo 20700B. Beer

But here are flaws positive pole are sunken, making many li-ion battery chargers incapable of charging

We know that the LiitoKala charger can charge it Facepalm

There is also the use of aluminum for positive electrodes, and laser welding is needed to make battery pack.

this battery without pvc,so we have vapcell 21700 5000mah 15A ,21700A rewarpped Blushing

If you need clear pictures, please visit.
https://www.facebook.com/VapCellIMR/photos/pcb.1868278116586853/18682756...
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Edited by: vapcell Dennis on 09/29/2018 - 11:32
HarleyQuin
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I’m impressed, thanks for sharing.

The EV development really suits us flashaholics, because they need a similar current and optimize for capacity. It’s interesting to see how the 30Q is diminished in comparison, as it is meant for a higher current – and is smaller.

I think we will see more 21700 flashlights in the near future.

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Enderman
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Yup, these are the cells tesla is using in the model 3 and powerwall 2.
They also are the highest density cylindrical cell, with a few percent better Wh/kg and Wh/L than the best 18650s.
Nothing amazing though, no 5500 or 6000mah.

If you want to use them for a battery pack you don’t need laser welding, soldering wires to lithium batteries is also possible.
As long as it is done quickly, there is no noticeable degradation or effect on its lifespan.

TheOnlyDocc
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@Enderman
He said :“There is also the use of aluminum for positive electrodes”
So soldering will be a bit trickey (or impossible).

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SKV89
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Wow this is the new Champ in 21700! I’m glad I only bought one of the LG M50. This has almost double the amps and much better performance!

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Positive pole is sunken and made of  aluminium, this is not exactly great news for DIY users. Looks sort of designed for specialized assembly lines. Even with Bi50Sn18Pb32 low temp solder and strange, nasty smelling probably toxic fume making aluminium flux I do not know if soldering it would be doable. Well, maybe in some sort of oxygen free chamber. 

On the other hand, a 21700 cell has (21²/18²) × (70/65) = 1.465811965812 times the volume of a 18650 cell. Long ago the Samsung INR18650-35E delivered 3350mAh typical down to 2.8V, with up to 10A continuous discharge rate. If we are to multiply that capacity figure by the volume multiplier we get 3350mAh × 1.465811965812 = ≈4910mAh down to 2.8V. Down to 2.5V we would probably get 5000mAh or so, and this is without saying a 21700 can eats up a tiny little less relative space than that of a 18650. Discharge performance wise same league too.

Same dog, uglified, fatter and with another collar. I'm soo thrilled! Facepalm

 

Cheers Party 

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You don’t need to solder the pos+ cap if you’re just using it in a flashlight with a driver side spring (or contact bump). But, it will be nice when someone decides to release this cell with an added button top. Innocent

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DavidEF wrote:
You don’t need to solder the pos+ cap if you’re just using it in a flashlight with a driver side spring (or contact bump). But, it will be nice when someone decides to release this cell with an added button top. Innocent

Even without the need for welding…I Wonder if the very fact that spring is contact with aluminum would create problems over time

Spread love, it pays off

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TheOnlyDocc wrote:
@Enderman
He said :“There is also the use of aluminum for positive electrodes”
So soldering will be a bit trickey (or impossible).

Why do you think it’s impossible to solder to aluminum…?
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“Some people also think this battery is Panasonic 21700A,not Sanyo

We have original packaging, with Sanyo markings.”

But he is where the one who was cleverly taking me verbally, like what is Panasonic and not Sanyo, it’s strange, he brings it back less now, which is who was right about —-> SANYO <—- NCR21700A, it was me !!! Tsssss ….

vapcell Dennis
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HydrAxx wrote:
“Some people also think this battery is Panasonic 21700A,not Sanyo

We have original packaging, with Sanyo markings.”

But he is where the one who was cleverly taking me verbally, like what is Panasonic and not Sanyo, it’s strange, he brings it back less now, which is who was right about —-> SANYO <—- NCR21700A, it was me !!! Tsssss ….

Congratulates Beer

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vapcell Dennis
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Enderman wrote:
Yup, these are the cells tesla is using in the model 3 and powerwall 2.
They also are the highest density cylindrical cell, with a few percent better Wh/kg and Wh/L than the best 18650s.
Nothing amazing though, no 5500 or 6000mah.

If you want to use them for a battery pack you don’t need laser welding, soldering wires to lithium batteries is also possible.
As long as it is done quickly, there is no noticeable degradation or effect on its lifespan.

Do you mean tin wire welding? Copper wire. It’s hard to weld

Special materials may be needed. Big Smile

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tatasal
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Sometime years ago Panasonic bought Sanyo, and eventually Panasonic teamed up with Tesla to exclusively manufacture batteries for Tesla in now, IIRC, considered as the largest lilo factory in the world.

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It would be nice to see a comparison chart between this cell and the 26650 PLB-55 (a.k.a. „Keeppower 6000“ or „Shockli 5500“).

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I’ve been disappointed with high capacity 21700 cells available so far. This one seems to be the winner.

I wonder how much does it weigh?

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Agro wrote:
I’ve been disappointed with high capacity 21700 cells available so far. This one seems to be the winner.

I wonder how much does it weigh?


69g +0.5/-0.5

Wh/kg is currently the highest I’ve found.

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Looks to be within error margin from 35E.

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Agro wrote:
Looks to be within error margin from 35E.

These are my numbers: Wh/kg Wh/cm^3
35E: 257.2380952 0.659077139
21700: 268.115942 0.691997407

A fairly significant difference, there are other 18650s that are slightly above or below the 35E, but the highest Wh/kg I’ve found is 264.

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18.5 Wh for 21700 cell? I see above that it’s 18.23 at 2A down to 2.5V. So I suppose you use 2.5V terminal voltage and even lower discharge rate.
Where did you get Wh for 35E down to 2.5V?
I didn’t find a source for the same voltage, so estimated from Ah to 2.8.

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Oooh yeeesss! Facepalm This is the best cell in the w…

Nothing really new here. Now move on fellows, thanks.

 

Cheers Smile 

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Agro wrote:
18.5 Wh for 21700 cell? I see above that it’s 18.23 at 2A down to 2.5V. So I suppose you use 2.5V terminal voltage and even lower discharge rate.
Where did you get Wh for 35E down to 2.5V?
I didn’t find a source for the same voltage, so estimated from Ah to 2.8.

Yeah sorry those were estimated values using V * Ah
Here’s a test for the 35E down to 2.5v: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/batteries/18650/52414-3500mah-leagu...

And here are the numbers comparing both cells down to 2.5V at a 2A load:
35E: 246.3768116 0.631249131

21700: 264.2028986 0.681897986

Even bigger difference Smile

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Whats the difference between that and LIR ?.

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Enderman wrote:

Here's a test for the 35E down to 2.5v: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/batteries/18650/52414-3500mah-league-sanyo-ncr18650ga-panasonic-ncr18650ga-lg-mj1-samsung-inr18650-35e

And here are the numbers comparing both cells down to 2.5V at a 2A load:
35E: 246.3768116 0.631249131

21700: 264.2028986 0.681897986

Even bigger difference Smile

Curious test in which the NCR18650GA won the match. According to HKJ's reviews the GA is inferior to 35E. No big deal either. If HKJ lays it hands over an NCR21700A we'll see. An I'd prefer for him to get a couple from some random place anonymously. Just in case.

The difference is small, now compare it to NCR18650GA figures from that test and they're even smaller. On the other hand, due to cell size differences comparing the cells at a fixed discharge current is unfair, it needs to be C-rate tared. Like discharging the NCR21700A at 3A versus 2A for the NCR18650GA, for example. I wonder how much would then be the difference, probably nothing once we take into account the thinner and lighterwheight NCR21700A cell can.

Unbiased facts.

Cry me a river. Unsubscribing from this #@¢ell Dennis sponsored thread. 

 

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Enderman
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Barkuti wrote:

Curious test in which the NCR18650GA won the match.


It did not, at least not at the current we were looking at.

Yes comparing at same C rating would be more accurate however the 21700 wasn’t tested at .2C so I can’t compare it to the 35E at .2C.
Also, in the real world your flashlight will not magically change it’s current draw depending on what size cell you’re using, so it’s a more fair comparison to do at equal current than equal C rating.

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Show some love here, it’s 1.5 18650’s in 3 extra mm’s. I’m loving it for its single cell uses and extras over single cell 18650’s.

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texas shooter wrote:
Show some love here, it’s 1.5 18650’s in 3 extra mm’s. I’m loving it for its single cell uses and extras over single cell 18650’s.

Sorry but that’s not how volume works.
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He’s saying the 5000mAh is 1.5 x more than 3000, I think. It does bring a substantial capacity gain to the table, will be great for some headlamps and emergency lighting.

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:
He’s saying the 5000mAh is 1.5 x more than 3000, I think. It does bring a substantial capacity gain to the table, will be great for some headlamps and emergency lighting.

It is definitely not just “3 extra mm”
It’s like 1.4x more capacity in 1.3x more volume so it’s not super impressive like people thought it would be.
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I am Wink back! 

Enderman, mmmkay, the 35E won by a hair at 2A. At higher current rates the GA took the lead.

It is clear the technology inside is the same, let's settle this. It was high time. 

So, what good stuff did 21700s brought us consumers? Let's recap:

  • Longer cells which a lot of existing chargers cannot handle because of increased lenght. Money out. Strike one! 
  • Since it is a new kewl format, now there's the need for a complete new range of flashlights with a little bit longer and fatter tubes. We had plenty of 26650 stuff, but guess Elon Musk probably was scared of it because Sony and other cell OEMs already had their gears well lubed in that cell format. Money out, strike two! 
  • At last but not least, this new format (20700s and 21700s) together with the surge in the vaping industry has lead to an increase in cell prices to us consumers, of course because the newer cells are quite more expensive (not just a mere additional 50%), and with cell rewrappers buying the whatever available stocks they can handle to promote an innovation which would have reached us anyway in an already standardized format like 26650s, and with even bigger figures. And no comments with regards to the undue figures in some rogue rewrapper wraps and with the straight bad practice of some of putting the same wrap over different cells. Money out, strike three! 

Yes I am the light, thanks. Big Smile

 

Cheers Party 

Barkuti
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Now that we're here, look, just found the kind of award Elon Musk deserves for his innovation. Hope he gets one soon:

 

Source: http://www.diploma-degree.com/106289-A-swift-kick-in-the-ass Big Smile

 

Cheers Smile 

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1… Well said Barkuti, I agree!! . . Beer

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