[Optisolis/E17A/E21A] Jetbeam Jet-µ

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clemence
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Sorry I must have missed it while going through the thread, but both the Optisolis and E21A models work well with nimh rechargables correct?

Correct, and that’s the only battery I recommend. Never ever use alkaleaks battery whenever possible to save your flashlights.

- Clemence

BurningPlayd0h
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clemence wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Sorry I must have missed it while going through the thread, but both the Optisolis and E21A models work well with nimh rechargables correct?

Correct, and that’s the only battery I recommend. Never ever use alkaleaks battery whenever possible to save your flashlights.

- Clemence

Excellent, I know some still prefer lithium primaries for AA/AAA lights so wanted to be sure.

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E21A

E17A

Beam comparison. I shot under exposed (-2 stops) to show center beam better but that caused the tint over saturated

- Clemence

contactcr
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I consider myself an enthusiast but i’m starting to think clemence provides TOO much information about his products. Is that possible?

Pavlo
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I think its great. All the added beamshots and tint comparisons make it alot easier to select preferred LED both for his products and any custom builds you chose to do on your own.

I have a few lights with e21a at this point with 4000k and 4500k and they are by far the best tinted and colour rendering lights I own!

contactcr
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but that ruins the surprise when you order from a no name company and they describe the tint as “yellow-white” or something

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contactcr wrote:
I consider myself an enthusiast but i’m starting to think clemence provides TOO much information about his products. Is that possible?

Those are the pictures I promised from my earlier post. This is BLF, people value research, data, and test results. unlike the other forum out there.
Do you prefer I don’t share any information instead? I think I have a problem being an enthusiast and a seller at the same time. Can’t decide which one should I be.

- Clemence

contactcr
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Of course I think more information is better. I’m only joking

However, it does just drive me deeper into this rabbit hole digesting all of this new information

iamlucky13
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contactcr wrote:
I consider myself an enthusiast but i’m starting to think clemence provides TOO much information about his products. Is that possible?

Yes and no. I really like having the data to evaluate. However, it’s also possible to get the audiophile disease where you get lost in evaluating, and forget the real goal is to use and enjoy the product (it’s only a small percentage of audiophiles, of course, but they’re the ones who get noticed).

I’m currently thinking what I should do personally is just order each of the different emitters that potentially interests me on MCPCB’s, try them out on my work bench, and decide from that what my dream light is.

ma tumba
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iamlucky13 wrote:
contactcr wrote:
I consider myself an enthusiast but i’m starting to think clemence provides TOO much information about his products. Is that possible?

Yes and no. I really like having the data to evaluate. However, it’s also possible to get the audiophile disease where you get lost in evaluating, and forget the real goal is to use and enjoy the product (it’s only a small percentage of audiophiles, of course, but they’re the ones who get noticed).

I’m currently thinking what I should do personally is just order each of the different emitters that potentially interests me on MCPCB’s, try them out on my work bench, and decide from that what my dream light is.


Exactly what Ive been doing. Have already tried most combinations of e21a, and just ordered a number of optisolis to combine and see.

For now it is e21a at 3000k and optisolis 5000, but looks like I’ll end up at higher cct with optisolis

clemence
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ma tumba wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
contactcr wrote:
I consider myself an enthusiast but i’m starting to think clemence provides TOO much information about his products. Is that possible?

Yes and no. I really like having the data to evaluate. However, it’s also possible to get the audiophile disease where you get lost in evaluating, and forget the real goal is to use and enjoy the product (it’s only a small percentage of audiophiles, of course, but they’re the ones who get noticed).

I’m currently thinking what I should do personally is just order each of the different emitters that potentially interests me on MCPCB’s, try them out on my work bench, and decide from that what my dream light is.


Exactly what Ive been doing. Have already tried most combinations of e21a, and just ordered a number of optisolis to combine and see.

For now it is e21a at 3000k and optisolis 5000, but looks like I’ll end up at higher cct with optisolis

I will put E21A and Optisolis modules for DIY-ers to experiment themselves but take note:
- Jetusolis and JetuE21A lens holders are NOT interchangeable. I modified the lens holder of JetuE21A so much that you can’t use Optisolis with it. There’s a potential one could easily crush the Optisolis put in the JetuE21A.
- You can use E21A/E17A LED modules in Jetusolis but the beam will be about 50% narrower and you’ll lose ~20% output.

- Clemence

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Updated some pictures and measurements in the product pages using final TIR optics selection.
Warning: big pictures, click to enlarge

- Clemence

malkoffdevices
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Thank You Clemence.

London !

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How to change the optics in JetuE17A/JetuE21A can be found in AppNote 190131




- Clemence

Pavlo
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My first review on BLF.

JetuE21A – VERY High CRI AAA EDCREVIEW
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/65785

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clemence wrote:
It’s funny how the Optisolis appeals more than E21A, unlike anticipated from the poll result. As per yesterday’s orders, JetuE21A/E17A orders were much less than Jetusolis.

I went back to look at this picture again, because it’s really cool to see the phosphors glowing under UV light, and I noticed something I missed before:

The E17A’s are all glowing, except what I assume is a blue one.

So I looked up the datasheets to see the spectrum graphs, and sure enough, they aren’t narrow monochromatic peaks, but relatively wide peaks. These are phosphor-converted color LED’s (except the blue).

I’m guessing the appearance is not the intense, highly saturated look we’re accustomed to with color LED’s, but more like a filtered incandescent? I’ve never quite liked LED Christmas lights as much as filtered incandescents, so I think that could be a good thing.

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iamlucky13 wrote:
clemence wrote:
It’s funny how the Optisolis appeals more than E21A, unlike anticipated from the poll result. As per yesterday’s orders, JetuE21A/E17A orders were much less than Jetusolis.

I went back to look at this picture again, because it’s really cool to see the phosphors glowing under UV light, and I noticed something I missed before:

The E17A’s are all glowing, except what I assume is a blue one.

So I looked up the datasheets to see the spectrum graphs, and sure enough, they aren’t narrow monochromatic peaks, but relatively wide peaks. These are phosphor-converted color LED’s (except the blue).

I’m guessing the appearance is not the intense, highly saturated look we’re accustomed to with color LED’s, but more like a filtered incandescent? I’ve never quite liked LED Christmas lights as much as filtered incandescents, so I think that could be a good thing.

You’re right. Although these colored LED aren’t as bright as normal colored LEDs, they have much wider spectrum coverage. I was surprised too how well I can see under the Red, Green, and Amber E17As. Unlike Blue which has very specific uses. Amber E17A renders color better than LPS and one could mistaken it from 1800K warm white if the object shone don’t contain too much colors. I also prefer PC Red for retaining night vision, because I can still somewhat see different colors better than with true single spectrum red color. Green although very relatively harsh to the eyes, brings out details extremely good and has the best color recognition among the other colored E17A. I can’t use the blue for too long, it hurts my eyes. Blue E17A, just like many failed dedomed LEDs in my collection, very useful for illuminating anything that normally glows under UV.

- Clemence

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clemence wrote:
You're right. Although these colored LED aren't as bright as normal colored LEDs, they have much wider spectrum coverage. I was surprised too how well I can see under the Red, Green, and Amber E17As. Unlike Blue which has very specific uses. Amber E17A renders color better than LPS and one could mistaken it from 1800K warm white if the object shone don't contain too much colors. I also prefer PC Red for retaining night vision, because I can still somewhat see different colors better than with true single spectrum red color. Green although very relatively harsh to the eyes, brings out details extremely good and has the best color recognition among the other colored E17A. I can't use the blue for too long, it hurts my eyes. Blue E17A, just like many failed dedomed LEDs in my collection, very useful for illuminating anything that normally glows under UV. - Clemence

Indeed, they are very surprising.

For each color, the datasheet has spectrum info at the page 10 (I mention 20% to 100% to 20% intensity of spectrum)

Blue (430nm - 447nm - 465nm)

Green (488nm - 521nm - 583nm) (slight deep blue, no near-IR)

Amber (543nm - 608nm - 691nm) (slight deep blue, very slight near-IR)

Red (598nm - 647nm - 735nm) (no deep blue /but figure doesn't contains range 400-450nm, slight near-IR)

Based on this, probably I need to take a red for sure in my next order cool

 

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Received a jetusolis 6500°k and 5000°k today (ordered on janv 24 (3 weeks ago)). Thank you clemence !
I usually don’t like cool white then each time i turn on the 6.5k, i need time to get used to it.
Once adapted, i have zero problem to consider it as one reference for colors rendition for myself. I will use it amply for inspections in the next days.
I really appreciate, at least, being able to check colors with a beam without a neutral or warm tint.
I can stand cool white…i’m cured !! Party
Thank you for your work, tests and dedication to high cri.

Is there an E21A and optisolis, both 6.5k beamshot somewhere ?
What to expect of a triple E21A 6.5k in the FW3A ?

Is it too much to hope for a tir lens combined to your Wizard/Tiara E21A module that would fit the FW3A ?

EDIT : blue tones with the jetusolis 6500°k look real good Thumbs Up

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Tally-ho wrote:
Is it too much to hope for a tir lens combined to your Wizard/Tiara E21A module that would fit the FW3A ?

If the Wizard/Tiara quad E21A module fit the FW3A, I’m going to buy a bunch of them! Big Smile

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adam7027 wrote:
Indeed, they are very surprising.

For each color, the datasheet has spectrum info at the page 10 (I mention 20% to 100% to 20% intensity of spectrum)

Blue (430nm – 447nm – 465nm)

Green (488nm – 521nm – 583nm) (slight deep blue, no near-IR)

Amber (543nm – 608nm – 691nm) (slight deep blue, very slight near-IR)

Red (598nm – 647nm – 735nm) (no deep blue /but figure doesn’t contains range 400-450nm, slight near-IR)

Based on this, probably I need to take a red for sure in my next order cool

I only have Cree XPE2 Green from my Armytek Dobermann to compare with. You can see the difference between Cree XPE2 pure green LED and phosphor converted green E17A. The much wider spectrum coverage makes for better color rendering other than green itself. Depending on the applications, this could be a bad or good thing.

Note: you can clearly see which is Red, Blue, or Yellow under PC Green E17A. It’s impossible to check colors under Green XPE2 (except for the false orange bottle cap which actually pink under white light)

Tally-ho wrote:
Received a jetusolis 6500°k and 5000°k today (ordered on janv 24 (3 weeks ago)). Thank you clemence !
I usually don’t like cool white then each time i turn on the 6.5k, i need time to get used to it.
Once adapted, i have zero problem to consider it as one reference for colors rendition for myself. I will use it amply for inspections in the next days.
I really appreciate, at least, being able to check colors with a beam without a neutral or warm tint.
I can stand cool white…i’m cured !! Party
Thank you for your work, tests and dedication to high cri.

Is there an E21A and optisolis, both 6.5k beamshot somewhere ?
What to expect of a triple E21A 6.5k in the FW3A ?

Is it too much to hope for a tir lens combined to your Wizard/Tiara E21A module that would fit the FW3A ?

EDIT : blue tones with the jetusolis 6500°k look real good Thumbs Up


I can’t stand low CRI cool white, it’s too harsh with no real benefit. With very high CRI cool white, the harshness pays off. Truest whites, clean colorful objects. Here’s the beamshot, taken from the product page:

If someone can give me a detailed technical drawing of FW3A MCPCB, I can do that. What I learnt: E21A only benefit from nano-ceramic MCPCB in tightly packed setup. For conventional wide spaced triple or quad, we only gain 300mA extra peak current which already very inefficient. My early test with heavily cooled direct thermal path confirmed that too. Below OEM rated current (1400mA), E21A is very tolerant to any MCPCB types. Looks like it’s time to make another triple and quad E17A/E21A MCPCB!

- Clemence

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clemence wrote:

If someone can give me a detailed technical drawing of FW3A MCPCB, I can do that. What I learnt: E21A only benefit from nano-ceramic MCPCB in tightly packed setup. For conventional wide spaced triple or quad, we only gain 300mA extra peak current which already very inefficient. My early test with heavily cooled direct thermal path confirmed that too. Below OEM rated current (1400mA), E21A is very tolerant to any MCPCB types. Looks like it’s time to make another triple and quad E17A/E21A MCPCB!

- Clemence

I remember reading the FW3A will be using the Noctigon 20mm triple mcpcb and will be compatible with Carclo optic. Are you planning to make a traditional quad for the E21A/E17A to fit Carclo optics?

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SKV89 wrote:
clemence wrote:

If someone can give me a detailed technical drawing of FW3A MCPCB, I can do that. What I learnt: E21A only benefit from nano-ceramic MCPCB in tightly packed setup. For conventional wide spaced triple or quad, we only gain 300mA extra peak current which already very inefficient. My early test with heavily cooled direct thermal path confirmed that too. Below OEM rated current (1400mA), E21A is very tolerant to any MCPCB types. Looks like it’s time to make another triple and quad E17A/E21A MCPCB!

- Clemence

I remember reading the FW3A will be using the Noctigon 20mm triple mcpcb and will be compatible with Carclo optic. Are you planning to make a traditional quad for the E21A/E17A to fit Carclo optics? Also, please don’t neglect the 16x E21A MCPCB Big Smile

Shhhhhhh……

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An FW3A with E21A’s might be very interesting.

However, the FW3A is FET driven for its highest outputs. Isn’t that a concern with the E21A due to their low forward voltage?

Texas Ace tested an E21A quadtrix as peaking around 2.5A per emitter. I assume you want to stay below the peak, but the FW3A is likely capable of providing more than that.

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iamlucky13 wrote:
An FW3A with E21A’s might be very interesting.

However, the FW3A is FET driven for its highest outputs. Isn’t that a concern with the E21A due to their low forward voltage?

Texas Ace tested an E21A quadtrix as peaking around 2.5A per emitter. I assume you want to stay below the peak, but the FW3A is likely capable of providing more than that.

The actual peak current of E21A is 3,3A for both R70 and R9080. But in R9080 the curve is almost flat from 2,5A to 3,2A. Making it’s not worth the heat/risk upping to more than 2,5A.
You’re right about the FET. E21A is better suited for more refined current controlled drivers.

- Clemence

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http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1130073#comment-1130073
Those above was a single E21A R9080 tested on a copper DTP. Indium solder will provide a teeeeny bit more current. Not worth the hassles …
With “normal” non DTP MCPCB, four E21A packed closer together can only output about 1A max per LED. With nano ceramic MCPCB such as VR16SP4 we gain back the 2,5A max for each LED.

- Clemence

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Efficient buck/boost cc drivers that can be readily bought for e-switch lights seem non-existent unless you build it yourself or you’re willing to sacrifice an expensive light which has one. One option might be loneoceans’ boost driver driving triple in series if somebody can make those available with appropriate e-switch firmware.

But for the meantime, I personally wouldn’t mind an FW3A with triple E21A running on just the 1+7 7135 chips with FET disabled or removed. IMHO It would still be totally worth it despite the added heat and loss of output and efficiency. But that’s coming from an E21A fanboy whose willing to sacrifice everything else for these emitters. I blame Clemence for that Silly .

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Thanks for the neat light, Clemence!

My Optisolis showed up today and I’ve been experimenting with it since then. I was not expecting a huge difference from my other high CRI lights, but it’s clear I need to recalibrate the brain with this one: a couple of times when I directed it toward a variegated target I got a strange feeling, like “somethings not right”, and realized it was internal sensory confusion at seeing the colors correctly and the brain puzzling over “but the Sun’s not out…”.

This is going to be a neat reference source when evaluating other lights.

Well done!

R

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Adhara wrote:
Thanks for the neat light, Clemence!

My Optisolis showed up today and I’ve been experimenting with it since then. I was not expecting a huge difference from my other high CRI lights, but it’s clear I need to recalibrate the brain with this one: a couple of times when I directed it toward a variegated target I got a strange feeling, like “somethings not right”, and realized it was internal sensory confusion at seeing the colors correctly and the brain puzzling over “but the Sun’s not out…”.

This is going to be a neat reference source when evaluating other lights.

Well done!

R

You’re welcome and thanks for your support. I also keep 3000K and 6500K Maukka calibrated Jetusolis for my reference lights.
Next project in the making …

- Clemence

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clemence wrote:
Next project in the making …

Any news about configurable multi-emitter Optisolis floodlight PCBs? Party

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