Fireflies E07 preview

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SKV89
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DB Custom wrote:
And so because someone wants something they should have it? Regardless of the inherent danger? The Emisar lights have a focus on ultimate performance in a compact structure, the entire design concept leaves no room for the charging circuit being asked for nor the likely ensuing loss of performance. It is not so much WE should be happy to “mind our own business” as it is we should help protect muggles that do not know what they are doing. Cells such as the high discharge non- protected 21700’s this light is designed to use should be charged outside of the light, carefully monitored to preserve a safety margin the users life may well depend on. Li-ion safety is extremely important, one major incident where poor design costs lives could impact us all in ways we’d truly hate to see.

My vote, my experience, goes with no built in charger for ANY light, you want easy stay in elementary school. Life, and it’s inherent pursuits, is not easy.

And of course, that’s my opinion and you are welcome to it. Wink

I disagree. I believe it is far more dangerous to give muggles a lithium ion cell light because the likelihood of them charging the cell in a non compatible charger is far higher than a built in usb charger causing explosion. In fact I dont think anyone here has heard of a flashlight with built-in charging exploding.

Agro
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Yes, I think pipe bomb. It takes a lot to turn flashlight into one:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47092
I believe there were some later tests with similar conclusions.

Merely shorting one while disabling thermal protection is not enough to cause problems.
Similarly use of a weak and used but gnerally OK quality cell – you’ll just get less current and may wear the cell much faster than usual.

DB Custom
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So you believe in making a muggle safe gun instead of training the muggle?

Do you not see an inherent problem in the fact that even a cheap single bay charger is $5-7 while the built in charging circuit is pennies worth? Quality, at $0.30? And you’ve never seen a cell vent? Ever? Sorry bud, but it happens and it’s freaky even in a proper charging environment, possibly deadly encased in an aircraft aluminum tube.

The odds, think of the odds. It will happen at some point that a charger overcharges when left alone to charge, and in todays ever more populated environment it could well happen that when it does many many people will be affected. Plug it in and leave it, that’s what everyone wants to do, and that’s fine while everything is in top working order, but one little component goes wrong and the cell overcharges, it heats up, it vents… then what? Not YOUR light, but the guy in the same building several rooms over, or several floors away, and suddenly you’re evacuating because someone else bought a cheap a$$ light and left plugged into the wall… or maybe it’s your mom getting smoke inhalation and an extended hospital stay due to that guy… but it does happen, and sooner or later it will happen to you. Keep muggles, muggles… or educate them and attempt to eliminate the potential for massive problems?

The vape folks are seeing it more and more, and they will get our li-ion cells regulated beyond purchase soon enough that we probably won’t have to worry about this discussion.

DB Custom
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One test, one result. Multiply it by a million and see how many results you get… the combination of variables is beyond imagination. Murphy’s law prevails. How many li-ion fires in the underbellies of Airplanes did it take to cause us grief? No flashlight even involved. The cells are extremely powerful, the possibilities nearly endless. Proceed with caution or be prepared to pay a price.

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My wife has heard me extol the virtues of safe Li-ion handling for years, I have over 300 Li-ion cells and 6 chargers. She’s heard all this, she’s an educated Licensed Vocational Nurse, one would think… well, one shouldn’t. The other day she came into an exam room and the couple in there had thrown a hot wet 18650 on the floor! Cautioned her about it when she stepped into the room. The woman said it was loose in her purse and she was looking for something and found it wet and burning hot, almost too hot to grab out of her purse and throw on the floor. What did my LVN wife do? She grabbed a rag and picked up the cell and put it in …. the Sharps Container! I about fell out when she told me that! If the cell had exploded it would have been amidst contaminated needles in a plastic box.

Muggles come in all stages of enlightenment, some that know absolutely nothing about all this, and those that should know but don’t apply it. What if, just in hypothetical imagining, what if the light you are carrying vented and flamed and a building burned, people died? Would you go to jail for your beliefs that internal charging is ok? Might never happen, might not even be possible, but that could be in the same way said about you wrecking your car and killing someone, don’t drive and it can’t happen, right? Or learn to be careful and it probably won’t. Some of it is out of our hands, so all we can do is try. Complacency is the issue. People get used to the danger and begin to ignore it.

DB Custom
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Agro? I’m not talking about what is easy or hard, convenient or inconvenient, safe or dangerous even… I am talking about what is right and what is wrong. No blurred lines. Our world is full of “convenience” and look around, are you sure that’s the best idea? Virtually every convenience is in turn inconvenient to someone else. By short cutting to the easy way, someone else has it harder. Look around. Even if it’s “only” poor Hank trying to cram a Type C charger into a compact powerhouse flashlight… Why Type C? Because it’s faster, more convenient? How does it achieve this? By delivering more power? So the 0.6C charge rate can be overridden? Uh huh, right, put a low quality low capacity cell in and charge it at 3A… uh, well, probably not the best of ideas. Don’t think it won’t happen, what muggle wants a $15 premium cell? I know people that take the bargain route and buy crazy named ultra cheap cells and expect them to perform, and they’re experienced flashaholics!

Ok, done, peace out…

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DB Custom wrote:
So you believe in making a muggle safe gun instead of training the muggle?

Do you not see an inherent problem in the fact that even a cheap single bay charger is $5-7 while the built in charging circuit is pennies worth? Quality, at $0.30? And you’ve never seen a cell vent? Ever? Sorry bud, but it happens and it’s freaky even in a proper charging environment, possibly deadly encased in an aircraft aluminum tube.

The odds, think of the odds. It will happen at some point that a charger overcharges when left alone to charge, and in todays ever more populated environment it could well happen that when it does many many people will be affected. Plug it in and leave it, that’s what everyone wants to do, and that’s fine while everything is in top working order, but one little component goes wrong and the cell overcharges, it heats up, it vents… then what? Not YOUR light, but the guy in the same building several rooms over, or several floors away, and suddenly you’re evacuating because someone else bought a cheap a$$ light and left plugged into the wall… or maybe it’s your mom getting smoke inhalation and an extended hospital stay due to that guy… but it does happen, and sooner or later it will happen to you. Keep muggles, muggles… or educate them and attempt to eliminate the potential for massive problems?

The vape folks are seeing it more and more, and they will get our li-ion cells regulated beyond purchase soon enough that we probably won’t have to worry about this discussion.


External charger quality is exactly like internal one – variable. I remember reading about some “charger” which was just a set of resistors. Tried to find it and failed but I see something else: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32438

I never witnessed a vent myself but I read about a few. One was inside a flashlight others were outside. With that one the user tossed a flashlight together with some branches into a fire. Outside? Yeah, there were more, I remember one that caused serious burns.

But anyway: forcing muggles to use external chargers is not training. Any muggle can charge AA cells and from user perspective charging Li-Ion is not any different, except that some will fall into the “it doesn’t fit my charger” problem.
If you want them to be safe, the first step is to supply them with a quality charger and quality cells. The next step is to add a protection circuit to the cell. The last – to prevent users from removing the cells.
I don’t propose that E07 or any other enthusiast light goes this way – but if safety is the priority, I believe this is the right way.

mihlit
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Quote:
Do you not see an inherent problem in the fact that even a cheap single bay charger is $5-7 while the built in charging circuit is pennies worth?
I honestly doubt there is any quality difference between those. Anyway, charging lithium cell is super simple, any cccv module with termination can do that. Compared to that, charging “ordinary” NiMH properly is a rocket science. If you want something more, next safety feature in line is temperature monitoring which usually is not present at any cheap to medium priced chargers, definitely not in most of them (if any). I did not see the pictures of that charger that FF sells as E07 optional accessory, but I really doubt it’s better than any other CCCV (pennies worth) charger.
Agro
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DB Custom wrote:
Virtually every convenience is in turn inconvenient to someone else. By short cutting to the easy way, someone else has it harder. Look around.

True.
Adding a charger makes a light bigger. As already stated it affects waterproofing. Modding such light can be harder. Yeah, it’s not a pure win and I see why some don’t want it.
It adds advantages on its own and I believe both convenience and safety are among them.

But is it right?
I’m afraid the answer is “it depends”.

As of now we have a choice, there are many lights that come with charging but still many that don’t. I like it like that.

contactcr
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I wouldn’t have bought this light if it had USB charging. The Astrolux is ugly and bulky looking but if someone wants charging they have that as an option.

I’m not against it on all lights. The Astrolux FT03 I got isn’t so bad with USB charging but the light is already big so it adds no size overall. It’s also a light I could see myself leaving a battery in and not wanting a higher or lower drain/capacity battery for some period of time. Still, even in this light, I feel it’s very waterproof and flush but my finger catches the tag edge of the stupid silicone cover every time i grab the light.

teacher
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SKV89 wrote:

I disagree. I believe it is far more dangerous to give muggles a lithium ion cell light because the likelihood of them charging the cell in a non compatible charger is far higher than a built in usb charger causing explosion. In fact I dont think anyone here has heard of a flashlight with built-in charging exploding.
Here’s a thought….. Instead of ‘dumbing down’ a Li Ion light so you can
“give it to a muggle”, e-d-u-c-a-t-e them on the safe use of Li Ion lights. Or, as DB Custom said; “let them remain muggles”.

Give them a AA light. Not everyone should have or own a Li Ion light.

To dumb down a good light with USB charging (or others bells & whistles) so as to muggle or idiot proof it is ridiculous in my opinion.

It would be somewhat like limiting (dumbing down) every 4 wheel vehicle on the roads to 89 horsepower so they would be safer for everyone to drive.
R-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s. Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm <— Yep, a triple face palm.

Either educate or do not gift Li Ion…. simple as that.

And for ‘flashaholics’ who actually desire USB charging on a high power Li Ion light…… I personally am at a loss for words. Facepalm . Innocent

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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BlueSwordM
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AGAIN, do people know about the MF01S Mini?

It has the same number of emitters as the E07, NarsilM, and USB-C charging.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
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BlueSwordM wrote:
AGAIN, do people know about the MF01S Mini?

It has the same number of emitters as the E07, NarsilM, and USB-C charging.

Perfect, for those who do not want want to educate a“muggle”; to gift to a uninformed “muggle”. Facepalm

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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Ekstasis
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teacher wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
teacher wrote:
Thumbs Up .. I understand that, it’s just my opinion on the matter. Just as your preference is yours.

I could say the same thing to you…. Just because you want it, don’t ruin it for others who see it as a useless feature that is not wanted. Consumers appreciate functional simplicity more than unneeded bells & whistles.

See what I did there??…. Neither one of us is right, or wrong; completely.
It is simply “our individual opinions”.

No it is completely not the same. You are telling them not to create a usb alternative when there is already a non usb version. There does not exist a usb version for those who want one. We want the option to buy a usb version which is none of your business if you dont want one. Why dont you just go buy the non usb version and be happy?
Sure it is completely the same thing.

I have no problem at all if they want to create another version of the E07 that has USB & whatever else. (Call it the ‘E07-b&w’ maybe)

But that is not what Ekstasis asked for. He asked for a new updated version. That would take away our choice to buy more E07’s without USB, which many consumers consider a useless/unneeded feature in a light. I am proudly one of those consumers.

Ekstasis wrote:
For the new updated version they should add usb c charging, this should be standard..cant be that expensive to add ? I gladly pay 10 dollars extra for it

Well it was on the official website on the banner for a while E07 IV, it is supposed to be somewhat refined manufacturing, but no usb charging as far as I know..
I do not understand the big resistance against usb charging, it seem to work perfect on those devices that have it. that usb charge circuit board cant add much space, if the people who talk loud about it please post how big it is and and then give us an argument that its not work to add a non-noticeable size difference.

If my Manker E14 II which is super small and power can have have usb charging then I think E07 have no problem to have it. Same with Acebeam EC65 it works perfect. One of the biggest benefit is that I can charge the flashlight in the car.

I think there is benefits in safety too, cause many people will buy from china dangerous charges and maybe counterfeit, to have a built in charger would mean people don’t need to risk to buy a dangeorus charger, also if it becomes a explosion I rather have tha battery inside the tube then open in the air, it will for sure reduce the damage.

Also economically it will be cheaper. E07 does not come bundle with a charger, 55 dollars is good price but if you have to buy a charger too including shipping etc you will end up paying more money.

Its a lot easier to just put in a cable rather then having the to unscrew the tube and put batteries in the charger. I think what ever people think usb charging is the future for many reasons. I can understand that many flashoholics dislike it cause they have their super good chargers with LCD displays that of course is better then a built in one but I think the need for external charger will get smaller and smaller.. as usb charging become standard.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
AGAIN, do people know about the MF01S Mini?

It has the same number of emitters as the E07, NarsilM, and USB-C charging.

is the MF01s about the same size as E07 ?

BlueSwordM
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Yes.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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MF01S is so much smaller it doesn’t exist. Astrolux trying to keep up with the Jones.

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THIS IS A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY OFF-TOPIC BROADCASTING SYSTEM.
THIS IS ONLY A TEST.
WE NOW RETURN YOU TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED O.P.-TOPIC PROGRAM ALREADY IN PROGRESS

SKV89
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The reason I loke usb charging is not only because it is muggle friendly but convenient to bring on trips so I dont have to bring a separate charger. Im travelling in Europe right now and decided not to bring the E07 because it has no usb charge.

The EC65 is the smallest 21700 light I own and I have many 21700 lights. The EC65 is very refined with usb c charge. Therefore I dont understand why everyone thinks usb chargeq makes the light so much bigger.

Agro
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SKV89 wrote:
The reason I loke usb charging is not only because it is muggle friendly but convenient to bring on trips so I dont have to bring a separate charger. Im travelling in Europe right now and decided not to bring the E07 because it has no usb charge.

The EC65 is the smallest 21700 light I own and I have many 21700 lights. The EC65 is very refined with usb c charge. Therefore I dont understand why everyone thinks usb chargeq makes the light so much bigger.


Yeah…and aside from having charging it actually supports 21750 cells which gives it a 5mm disadvantage over some competitors.
But sometimes it does add size. Smaller lights…Ones that desire it on a separate PCB (to make changing the main driver)…Extremely compact lights (FW3A)…
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People make a huge stink over the safety of lithium ion batteries and built-in chargers but I bet most people here carry a Li-ion-powered smartphone in their pocket every day and plug it into different chargers throughout the day. It all comes down to the quality of components used.

The reasons I’m not fond of USB charging in a flashlight are because it usually adds size and usually compromises the waterproofing. But even that’s not always true. Everybody is familiar with the relatively new to the market 10180 flashlights, like the Maratac Peanut or the Olight i1r, for example. Those have built-in USB charging and if the charging functionality adds size, the flashlights still end up being some of the smallest 130 lumen lights on the market. Also, the way that USB charging is implemented can be perfectly waterproof, too. The Acebeam H30 headlamp, as another example, hides the charging port under the threads at one end, which is sealed up with an o-ring. If you never charge it via USB, you never have to unscrew that cap.

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As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

koziy
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Agro wrote:
As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

The Peanut Rev 2 has charging built in.
https://countycomm.com/products/copper-peanut-led-flashlight-kit-by-mara...

But this is nitpicking at its finest. How would that invalidate what I said even if you were right?

teacher
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I am loving This E07 I got from contactcr.

Fireflies E07 with Samsung LH351D LED swap & mods

This is contactcr’s Mod Post with more details about this light.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

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G.P.
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I see both sides of the USB argument, but I call BS on the issue of the E07 not being big enough, or USB charging adding to its size. The smallest flashlight that I own is the Helius Sigma vi, and they managed to include USB charging on it.

Relampago
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It also seems like they protected the port by keeping it in the threads.

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
― George Carlin

contactcr
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Looks like they made a mediocre battery (10180) even worse by making it 10150 and adding a charging port. Not convinced this is a good example at all.

Relampago
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How long before we can get wireless charging in these flamethrowers?

Edit: Lol, ORCA beat me to it. https://www.amazon.com/ORCATORCH-Wireless-Charging-Emergency-Blackouts/d...

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
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koziy wrote:
Agro wrote:
As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

The Peanut Rev 2 has charging built in.
https://countycomm.com/products/copper-peanut-led-flashlight-kit-by-mara...

But this is nitpicking at its finest. How would that invalidate what I said even if you were right?


Yes, in my eyes it invalidates what you said. Becuase that Peanut Rev 2 is 29% larger than Fairy. This is a huge difference and at least for me it clearly puts it in another size class.
BTW that Helius Sigma Li that G.P. has shown is even larger than that.

My point is: when a light is small, there is a big size increase caused by adding a charger.
At larger sizes, the minimal increase is pretty much meaningless – but some makers choose to have a separate charger board (and some BLFers advocate that for the sake of easier driver replacement). Such construction is advantageous for modders but it add some size to larger lights as well. At larger sizes users often request Type-C. Which is another small size increase.

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Protip: I have a Nitecore F1 in my car. Problem solved Smile

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