Fireflies E07 preview

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Tally-ho
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Big Smile

SKV89
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I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

BlueSwordM
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Sadly, it can’t really be the driver.

It must be the LEDs getting super hot, but the light throttling down too soon.

The 1st gen didn’t have a good flat MCPCB with very poor thermal paste contact. That means the LEDs could easily be at extremely high temps without you knowing.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

SKV89
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I take measurements at 2second so it doesn’t throttle down. Just very strange.

Newlumen
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I havent notice any lumen decrease on my e07 xpl hi.. i got 7150, and 7310 lumen in two seperate measurement.

SKV89
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Newlumen wrote:
I havent notice any lumen decrease on my e07 xpl hi.. i got 7150, and 7310 lumen in two seperate measurement.

Do you leave batteries inside your E07? I’ve kept the aux lights on for half a year. Not sure if that is causing the lower output because the one that dropped output the most, I almost never use it.

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I click 3 times to do battery check and it was 3.9v and putting around high 5600 lumen.

clbell
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Does anyone know if the LEDs on the switch can be programmed individually?

TrueRMS
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clbell wrote:
Does anyone know if the LEDs on the switch can be programmed individually?

No, 2 are always on and the other 2 respond to FW (along with the main aux led’s in the head)
Ekstasis
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SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

Do you have any fresh cells to compare with ?
That they drop in lumens and if its not cell related does sound worrying… especially after such little use…
I am little bit disappointed with the lack of scientific reviews and tests. Sure… there was a kind of big flood of reviews earlier this year..but honestly..it feel like
all those old reviews are not as relevant today because manufacturing process have changed since then, we should see now much improved thermal performance for instance.
The most hardcore flashholics nad reviews did buy it very earily when it still had some manufacturing problems which should be fixed now… it would be interesting to see how the thermal performance compare with those that are sold today.

it feels like the E07 is not as hot anymore in terms of discussions etc, maybe people are just waiting for the astrolux MF01 Mini, which now seem to be delayed… if I am going to pull the trigger and buy the e07 it would be more confident how to see how the older version and the newer versions compare… it seem many of those flaws people have complained about have been fixed…

Fireflies had E07 IV on their banner for a short time..now its gone… I wonder if they will release a E07 with this branding so one can be confident that you don’t get something from the old batch (which I think is probably unlikely if you buy from their official store), but if they only have E07 from latest batch with perfected manufacturing I would not see why they would not rebrand it so people know its an updated version.

SKV89
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I just did a thorough cleaning with alcohol on both the flashlight and batteries and the lumens went back up but not back to brand new level though. With fresh off the charger 30T, it is now making 6,896 lumens instead of 7,327 lumens. With 40T, it is now making 6,424 lumens instead of 7,017 lumens. This is the flashlight I don’t use often.

The one I used often, the XP-L HI 5A also dropped from 6,465 to 5,991 lumens using 30T. But then 6,465 lumens was measured after it was already heavily used.

I’m guessing the cause is the void between the mcpcb and shelf due to inadequate thermal paste might result in the emitters overheating at those extremely high currents. I’m thinking E07 version 2 with adequate thermal paste should prevent the emitter degradation, especially with the upcoming copper version, the emitters should be pretty safe.

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SKV89 wrote:
I just did a thorough cleaning with alcohol on both the flashlight and batteries and the lumens went back up but not back to brand new level though. With fresh off the charger 30T, it is now making 6,896 lumens instead of 7,327 lumens. With 40T, it is now making 6,424 lumens instead of 7,017 lumens. This is the flashlight I don’t use often.

The one I used often, the XP-L HI 5A also dropped from 6,465 to 5,991 lumens using 30T. But then 6,465 lumens was measured after it was already heavily used.

I’m guessing the cause is the void between the mcpcb and shelf due to inadequate thermal paste might result in the emitters overheating at those extremely high currents. I’m thinking E07 version 2 with adequate thermal paste should prevent the emitter degradation, especially with the upcoming copper version, the emitters should be pretty safe.


may be the resistance of the flashlight somehow increased. Next time when you do the lumen test you should measure the current as well.

[update]
i found this picture that might explain your situation

BlueSwordM
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What Nitecore says doesn’t matter.

The BeCu springs inside of the are well below 30mOhms.

Of course its resistance would increase to 100mOhms. The spring would be melting at the kind of current Nitecore was pusing.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

AnhTran
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BlueSwordM wrote:
What Nitecore says doesn’t matter.

The BeCu springs inside of the are well below 30mOhms.

Of course its resistance would increase to 100mOhms. The spring would be melting at the kind of current Nitecore was pusing.


I use this picture because it has a hint that might explain SKV89’s problem that his E07 reduce brightness overtime. i think the contact might be oxidised so resistant increase.
BlueSwordM
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No, it’s not that. Gold plated contacts don’t oxidize unless the metal underneath melts.

And since the E07 is very recent, the E07 wire/traces/springs can’t really degrade much electrically, so it must actually be the LEDs that are stressed out.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

AnhTran
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BlueSwordM wrote:
No, it’s not that. Gold plated contacts don’t oxidize unless the metal underneath melts.

And since the E07 is very recent, the E07 wire/traces/springs can’t really degrade much electrically, so it must actually be the LEDs that are stressed out.


maybe the contact between body tube and tailcap, between tube and the driver is worn out after screwing-unscrewing many times, that why it can be oxidized
contactcr
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Plus the top spring is bypassed with a big mess of solder. That isn’t gold.. Batteries and other contacts can get plenty dirty without being oxidized.

contactcr
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Has no one tried to retrofit a new, more clicky, e-switch on this light yet?

Ekstasis
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I did order my E07 couple of days ago. I did check out as guest. I have asked about the tracking number how long can you expect to wait until you get a reply?

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contactcr wrote:
Has no one tried to retrofit a new, more clicky, e-switch on this light yet?

Do you perhaps know if this light has a separate switch or if it is mounted on the driver?

Astrolux MF01 Mini, BLF Q8, BLF A6, BLF FW3A, BLF FW3C, Convoy L6, Convoy C8+ , Convoy S3, Convoy M21A, Convoy S11, Emisar D4, Fireflies E07, Jaxman E2L, Lumintop EDC18, Manta Ray C8.2 long version, Olight S1R Baton II special edition series, S2R Baton II, Nitecore HC65, Olight H1R Nova.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JaJaDv4V838AEJf39

Ekstasis
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I did receive my flashlight couple of days ago.

Some Impressions of the flashlight.

First impression, it feels smaller then what I did imagine, this is positive, it defintly belong in EDC family, but the pictures online makes it hard to know the real size, so I am glad it turned out to be this size.
It also is very sexy to look at, I bought mind in gun grey color and I don’t regret the choice.
Second impression, with SST20 4000k I find the turbo very impressive, as usually you need to have surfaces to reflect light on to get the wow effect then it will really light up the whole surroundings in a very impressive way considering the size of the flashlight, so yes performance does not disappoint this 7 led configuration really adds that wow factor that I have missed in all my quad led lights.
I really dig the ramp/dim functionality, makes it perfect especially for indoor use, in a seamless way you and adjust brightness according to distance and as you get closer to doors you lower the brightness etc.
Battery life seem to be kind of good, as always it always depend on your use, all these brightness modes and ramp functionality is there for a reason, both in terms of heating protection and battery consumption the whole purpose is to change brightness all the time according to need, the more you do that the better battery life, if you use turbo a lot dont expect any good battery life, but if you use it for short flashes and then go down to high it will be good. I dont have any exact number of the battery life, but ofc you need to compromise you might be in scenario where you want to use turbo majority of the time with this flashlight you simply cant both because of heating and battery consumption, but this is where 7 led configuration and 21700 battery come to play, the “high” mode is even better then last generations quad led flashlight in turbo, and the difference in heat/battery is very big between high/turbo, also the 7 led config makes the “the eye” very wide and big so wow effect is still present in high mode but ofc not as much as turbo.

I still give this flashlight 10 points, it still the most beautiful and powerful flashlight in this size but I will list a few things I don’t like.

1. Aux leds, is nothing for me, it takes away the professional feel when having them on, gladely I can turn it off, the leds on the button I have no problem with it fills a purpose the other aux leds are only for bling bling.
2. Manual and configuration routines are a big nightmare, the manual is very hard to understand, I pretty much need to take help from youtube videos, in one video the person say that the manual included with E07 is not complete, some important information is missing so I will need to check that out… I can understand flashoholics don’t mind this complex configuration options but the truth is no normal person will never use it, they will never change the sensor above 50 degrees etc, or even manage to turn off the aux lights. Yes to summarize while config options are big the whole config system is still a joke to me and laughable. What is missing here is a atleast a secondary button that would help to config, doing all with just one button is a big pain in the ass. I would also like a LED screen like TM26, so I can see more easy what menu in the options I am in etc…

3. The button is not perfect even do it fills it purpose it is not as responsive as you would like it to be, I would want a more tactile one. For the ramp/dim I would like half press option like Nitecore TM26.

I still give 10 points because this is as far as size to performance ratio have come right now, its the most powerful in the size and looks good, configuration is a nightmare but probably worth it. having it set to 50 degrees most likely have a positive effect on the longevity of the leds, since I read people have problem with the leds loose lumen after a while it might be related to having them run too hot…
But 50 degrees I still think is very low, 70 degrees Celsius atleast…but 50 is the default setting now I have to watch youtube videos how to change the sensor myself and calibrate etc.. its not fun but I must do it..

I wish they could calibrate the sensor before shipping and also that you would be able to ask them to set the sensor higher so you dont have to do all that yourself.
Putting off aux lights and change the sensor temp is two things you must learn how to do.. after this you really dont need to change anything in the config…

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2 switches and half presses is obviously adding a 2nd switch input which the firmware can't handle yet, and this driver is out of spare I/O pins (this is a 3 channel driver, not 2), so can't happen with the current driver design.

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Ekstasis wrote:
things I don’t like.

1. Aux leds
2. configuration

Putting off aux lights and change the sensor temp is two things you must learn how to do.. after this you really dont need to change anything in the config…

Their newest light, the E01, has no aux LEDs and no ability to configure the interface. I guess less is more?

It still has a thermal calibration option though, because it’s really hard to get a factory to calibrate it.

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TK, did you configure it that way for them with limited UI config? And looks like no candle, lightning modes, etc? I don't see a cfg file for the E01 in the repository?

I've had an E01 on order from Neal for a while now, but it's held up because the trits I ordered with it aren't in stock frown.

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Tom E wrote:
TK, did you configure it that way for them with limited UI config? And looks like no candle, lightning modes, etc? I don’t see a cfg file for the E01 in the repository?

Yes, the UI was created to match a spec from Fireflies. I guess they got enough comments like the one a couple posts ago that they wanted to remove some options.

The E01 config file is there, but it may not have landed in trunk yet. It’s at least in the fsm branch though. And with a pogo pin adapter, it’s really easy to reflash. It’s a FET+3 driver like the PL47 and E07.

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Ohh, cool! Boy, I need a pogo pin setup. Is there any good info to make/build/buy a setup here on BLF? Don't know all that much bout them but think the pinout layouts vary. Still unclear how they connect in to stay - hope they don't have to be held in place.

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Tom E wrote:

Ohh, cool! Boy, I need a pogo pin setup. Is there any good info to make/build/buy a setup here on BLF? Don’t know all that much bout them but think the pinout layouts vary. Still unclear how they connect in to stay – hope they don’t have to be held in place.

This is what I’m using:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/63230

This one is designed to make it pretty easy to handle different pin layouts.

It does have to be held in place, but it’s fairly easy to do… especially on drivers which have a few vias among the flashing pads. The vias align the pogo pins correctly and keep them there. Even without though, it’s not difficult.

hank
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Quote:
pogo pin setup. … think the pinout layouts vary.

Yeah, this deserves one’a them industrial standards everyone would agree on.
Or a new kind of connector. There’s alternatives like short range wireless: http://www.keyssa.com/technology/

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I gotta read up on this, and where to get parts, etc. Think we may have pogo pins at work - probably DigiKey sourced.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Ekstasis wrote:
things I don’t like.

1. Aux leds
2. configuration

Putting off aux lights and change the sensor temp is two things you must learn how to do.. after this you really dont need to change anything in the config…

Their newest light, the E01, has no aux LEDs and no ability to configure the interface. I guess less is more?

It still has a thermal calibration option though, because it’s really hard to get a factory to calibrate it.

For me who work as security gurd E01 looks like a good option but it pales in performance… also… it looks to have a lot bigger candela judging by the beam shot on the website.
For a security guard you want less candela and more lumen. Anyway E07 and ST20 gives a good balance between flood and throw. Throw is overrated I think… for most situations lower candela and high lumen is to prefer..how ever for some people they require good throw all the time… depending on activity… E07 and ST20 give good balance between the two.. I dont have exact numbers how much it throw etc…

I might consider the E01 as secondary flashlight… the batterylife should be very good since its only one led and 21700 battery. The price is very good.

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