Fireflies E07 preview

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SKV89
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I tried to test a NCR18650GA button top and it crushed the springs further.
Now w/ P26A, it measures 5,820 lumens
Now w/ Samsung 30T 21700, it measures 5,840 lumens

This is significant considering the 30T used to measure 7,570 lumens when the springs were brand new. Lesson learned, be very careful what batteries you put in and twist the threads in slowly to make sure you are not forcing in a battery that is too long.

SKV89 wrote:
I found out the mysterious reason why E07 drops in output overtime. The spring flattens out after being compressed and doesn’t return to the original length, which means it won’t push as hard on the cells. The weaker contact results in more resistance and lower output. I took some measurements with these fully charged cells. The 18650 cell uses a 21700 adapter, which makes them a good bit longer than the 21700 cells so the spring pushes harder on the 18650 cells.

Molicel P26A 18650: 6640 lumens
Molicel P28A 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC5D 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC6 18650: 5650 lumens
Molicel P42A 21700: 5600 lumens
Samsung 40T 21700: 5770 lumens
Samsung 30T 21700: 6500 lumens

This same E07 used to measure around 7,570 lumens with the same 30T and 7,017 lumens with the 40T. I swapped the tail cap with another E07 tail cap that is used less and the 40T measurements jumped from 5770 to 6000 lumens. There’s a possibility that I might have tried a 21700 protected cell which compressed the springs too hard causing permanent deformation, but I don’t remember. But now I know to never put protected cells in a flashlight not designed to accept protected cells.

These springs are not bad and all springs flatten out over time to a certain extent, but if Fireflies ever find any springs with better mechanical properties, they can sell them separately as an upgrade. There’s nothing we can do with the spring on the driver side but if Fireflies provide a longer tail cap spring, that will make up for the loss compression.

SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

Skylight
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I would highly recommend to anyone with soldering skills to swap out the thermal paste in the Fireflies E07. I had 6500K SST20 inside and swapped them for Luxeon V2 4000K. I removed all the old thermal paste and replaced it with 10W/mk new paste. You have to unsolder all the wires because they are too short to be pulled out.

Before, the E07 got hot only slowly even if it was running on full turbo. It was barely warm at the outside and the heat would not transfer to the head as known from other hot-rods like the Emisar D4.

Now you can feel the heat at the outside already after a few seconds and it moves along the light until it is hot all along. That’s much better because if the heat is stored in the MCPCB the leds are more likely to fail. This leads me to the conclusion that Fireflies is using a much worse thermal paste than for example Emisar or Astrolux.

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@Skylight Really? That’s the complete opposite for me, but I do have the V2 in which it has HY880 thermal paste.

The E07 gets hot insanely fast, even faster than my PL47, taking into account of course that the PL47 has a direct connection to the battery tube, so it doesn’t get as hot as fast, but the battery tube does get hot faster.

@SKV89, I would also agree. I advise anyone using any of Fireflies lights to not use protected/very long cells.

Like with Emisar/Amutorch lights, they use BeCu C17500 springs, so while they have some superb conductivity, their mechanical properties and resistance to plastic deformation(permanent) are bad.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

contactcr
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I’m hesitant to say this because i dont want to start a thermal pastegate again but even on my Ti+Cu model only ~half of the MCPCB makes good contact with the shelf (FWIW my Emisar D18 was more or less the same). I added good thermal paste and it seems to transfer heat ok but obviously it could still be better.

shirnask
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My two early edition E07’s had virtually NO thermal paste

So if you have the skills – check

SKV89
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BlueSwordM wrote:

@SKV89, I would also agree. I advise anyone using any of Fireflies lights to not use protected/very long cells.

Like with Emisar/Amutorch lights, they use BeCu C17500 springs, so while they have some superb conductivity, their mechanical properties and resistance to plastic deformation(permanent) are bad.

I wasn’t used protected cell, just standard length button top NCR18650GA with their 18650 adapter tube. Seems like it is only compatible with flat top 18650. I hope FF will increase the length of the tube slightly to avoid these issues and use the same springs you are using. That would result in the ultimate premium flashlight that should not degrade in performance over time.

fluke
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On the Fireflies website it states this.

 

 

  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 CW 6500K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness
  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 3A NW 5000K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness  

But isnt 5000K not as bright as 6500K?

 

contactcr
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If they are both V3 it wont be a huge difference. I think they have had v2, v3 and v4 in certain temps

SKV89
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fluke wrote:

On the Fireflies website it states this.


 


 



  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 CW 6500K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness

  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 3A NW 5000K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness  


But isnt 5000K not as bright as 6500K?


 

It’s all about the flux bin. I’ve measured warmer temps brighter than cooler temps. If both of the lights are the same flux bin (V3), then their brightness should be the same. Though some lux meters seem to be more sensitive to cooler temps so they measure higher output with CW than WW even if the brightness should be the same.

trailhunter
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Anyone familiar with replacing the button? My leds went out and I have a replacement but looks like the ring is press fit.

Mine is copper so I’m a little timid on being brute force on this, dont want to ruin the finish

AndreaW
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I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

contactcr
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AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

AndreaW
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contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

contactcr
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AndreaW wrote:
contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

Make sure your battery is charged? It could have drained it enough to allow the button/main LEDs to come on dimly but the aux board has its own low voltage protection so it will stay off.

AndreaW
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contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

Make sure your battery is charged? It could have drained it enough to allow the button/main LEDs to come on dimly but the aux board has its own low voltage protection so it will stay off.

Good idea, I’ll charge up the battery tonight. The light itself does come on and ramps up and down brightnesses as expected so I didn’t think about the battery since the light worked.

scosgt
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Is the light off or on or locked?
Locked is three clicks.
On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

contactcr
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scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

He is doing that right because the button LEDs are changing. I’m betting it’s just a low battery

scosgt
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contactcr wrote:
scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

He is doing that right because the button LEDs are changing. I’m betting it’s just a low battery

Or maybe there is a defect

AndreaW
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scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

I tried both ways – 7 clicks from off and also tried 3 clicks from lockout.

AndreaW
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Charging the battery brought the aux lights back. I feel like a dolt. Thanks, everyone.

I wonder if any of you could help with my Emisar D4S problem: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1567444#comment-1567444

saypat
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[quote=AndreaW]Charging the battery brought the aux lights back. I feel like a dolt. Thanks, everyone.

Wow, thats good news,, and you must be happy . I didn’t think that would be the solution. Great Forum we have lots of help.

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This thought struck me… there is a lot of functionality in the firmware… but yet..there is no mode to turn off leds…
For instance…as a power save mode you could choose to not activate all leds… for instance… you can sacrifice width of the beam in favor of throw. Cause not always you need this wide beam…
Plus it could save a lot power…

E07 is great.. but.. battery when using high lumen settings… will deplete kind of fast… but its not strange..
All I am saying is if you could turn off leds.. to make beam less wide but not sacrifice throw it could bee a good compromise should it would require more physical motion and focus with your hand to focus the beam to the objects..but… to save power it could be worth in in some situations..

Just some ideas for future products… 7 leds is good..but it might not be all scenarios we need to use it.. if we only want focus beam with long thru we could give full power turbo to just a few leds.. and let the other be off..

An other idea in this mode would be that the firmware would alernate the active leds.. when some led turn of some other turn on.. the idea would be.. as soon as one led get hot a new “cool” led would start and when it get hot it turns of and a new led start.. that is cool… it could maybe help thermal performance.

And other idea… is in situation when throw is more important then flood… maybe we could give specific leds extra turbo power which might be possible cause not all 7 leds are running at the same time…

Just some ideas.. I like to think outside the box…
With a a firmware complex like this… this kind of functionality is not to far off I think…

E07 is a very good flash light that gives both of best worlds its a flood and throw light in one…
if we could deactivate we could control flood level and maybe even surpass throw with more narrow beam…
The whole idea is to make the flash light even more versatile ofc..
As it is it s already the most balanced and versatile flashlight.. ist flood and throw in one.. but atleast witht the SST20 the throw could maybe be better…considering the lumen output…

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Being able to select any amount of LEDs requires separated channels per LED, which means each channel needs it’s own regulator/FET and enable signal from MCU, or some logic chip to route the signal to the selected channels. As a hobbyist driver designer myself I can only say man, what a nightmare.

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Ekstasis wrote:
if you could turn off leds.. to make beam less wide but not sacrifice throw

If it used only 1 of the 7 LEDs, the beam would still be just as wide. Increasing the throw isn’t done by using fewer LEDs, it’s done by using larger optics or smaller LEDs. Even if it could turn individual LEDs on/off, the firmware can’t change the physical beam pattern.

Turning most of the E07 LEDs off would only produce this effect, which doesn’t help at all with throwiness:

scosgt
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AND if you want a thrower of the same size the E01 is it!

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What could be done however, would be to place a very throwy LED in the center(SST-20) with a low angle emission optix, and pick floody LEDs(LH351Ds) with floody optics.

Best balance between flood and throw.

Only problem is the driver as MikeC stated, along with making a custom optic.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

contactcr
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With 1 battery and 7 LEDs in parallel it’s hard to drive any single LED to its max current though (and therefore max throw).

It’s not really worth it on this light but the idea isn’t completely without merit.

ToyKeeper
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There are designs which can do both flood and throw. For example, the lights shown below. But the E07 isn’t like that. All of its optics are the same, so turning individual LEDs on/off doesn’t really change the beam pattern at distances greater than ~20 cm.

sungar
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I noticed there is generation II of ROT66 and PL47. Any plans for new version of E07 soon?

SKV89
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I just got the E07 w/ the SST-20 2700K. It has a really pleasant rosy tint. The SST-20 2700K seems a bit rosier than the 3000K. I ordered it with red Aux light but it came with purple Aux Facepalm The SST-20 2700K w/ Red Aux lights would make for a perfect bedside light due to it’s very low blue wavelength emittance so it won’t suppress melatonin as much as other lights. Also red light is known to induce sleep among other benefits.

I noticed an issue with the translucent o-ring between the battery tube and head seems to keep squeezing out when tightening the head and sometimes it prevents electrical contact. I think a thinner O-ring would fix the problem.

Here are test results using fresh off the charger Samsung 40T.

Turbo (with stock lens)
Output: 3,845 lumens (at 1s)
CCT: 2629K
DUV: -0.0023
Ra (CRI): 93.6
R9: 70.3
Rf: 88
Rg:105

4th lowest stepped mode (with stock lens)
Output: 119 lumens
CCT: 2661K
DUV: 0.0001
Ra (CRI): 97.5
R9: 85.2
Rf: 95
Rg:102

Turbo (with UCL lens)
Output: 4,043 lumens (at 1s)
CCT: 2629K
DUV: -0.0024
Ra (CRI): 93.6
R9: 70.3
Rf: 88
Rg:105

4th lowest stepped mode (with UCL lens)
Output: 123 lumens
CCT: 2682K
DUV: -0.0002
Ra (CRI): 97.6
R9: 86.3
Rf: 95
Rg:102

I’m surprised this time the UCL lens hardly lowered the DUV. I saw much larger improvements from switching to UCL lens in the several older E07 that I tested. Maybe Fireflies got a new/better batch of lens. Overall, the E07 is still one of the best single cell flashlight money can buy.

For the E07v2, I hope to see a slightly longer battery tube with longer springs with better mechanical properties so it does not get permanently crushed when using longer batteries; permanently deformed (shortened) springs results in poorer electrical contact, higher resistance, and less output.

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