OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG (1mm2) & Osram KW CSLPM1.TG (2mm2)

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Enderman
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I’m going to try putting the white flat into another flashlight with one of my 120mm lenses so I’ll let you know how much improvement I get over the optofire once it’s done.

Lexel
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Tom E wrote:

Is it just me, or is it a difficult thing to judge the white flats vs. the black flat? Seems like in theory the white flats should have better throw, but in practical mods, every head to head I’ve seen the black flat prevails. This thread mostly compares the white flat to the good dedomed XP-G2 but I don’t see apples to apples comparison in a real host to the black flat.


I understand the difficulties with the black flat with electrical isolation, but still, in a decent thrower host, has anyone proven the white is better than the black? Is it dependent on the host or maybe spending the time/effort on focusing a white flat for a particular reflector? Why would the white flat be more difficult to focus?

focus should be the same cant be that, maybe those LEDs are a tiny bit different in height but this should be so minimal not making a big difference
the main problem is getting this ultra low Vf LED driven at a current below 4.5A, DD driver cant do it even with Medium drain pulls too much

enderman measured at acceptable current about 300cd/mm² and 600 with collar, but this of course to the fact he uses a regulated supply
same measurement numbers on other testers

Jerommel
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…and so we should use a regulated driver for these Osrams.
But it seems many have been DD brainwashed..

2Q19

Tom E
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Not sure why, but the old tricks of simply adding resistance by using thin, long LED wires and higher resistance batteries should do the trick. The springs you have to be careful with because even 5 amps on cheap wires may be a problem. I'd choose to use the high quality Blue springs for example, and would rather up the resistance on the wires. Of course it would be better to have a great regulated driver but that's not so easy or cheap as a FET based driver.

 It's like those cheap SRK's that have the squiggle line traces all over the big driver -- they are only doing that to add resistance - bypassing the traces is an easy power boost.

Example in a 12X SRK clone (added jumper to circumvent the squiggles):

contactcr
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Got it, regulated, MOVING ON before we alert Barkuti

Jerommel
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Tom E wrote:

Not sure why, but the old tricks of simply adding resistance by using thin, long LED wires and higher resistance batteries should do the trick.

And then you eliminate all the benefits of low Vf LEDs.
You’ll only have full output on a freshly charged cell.

2Q19

Tom E
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Agree, not the best solution but it works, just like any other FET based driver we have in all the popular lights as of late (Emisar, Fireflies, Sofirn. etc.). On all of them you get the max on full cells, then slowly drops - sorry, but it's our only/best solution for a reasonable cost.

netprince
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I believe led4power’s driver uses a FET in its linear region. The driver must be constantly sensing how much current is passing, and adjusting the FET accordingly.

I am far from an electronics expert though.

Jerommel
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Tom E wrote:

Agree, not the best solution but it works, just like any other FET based driver we have in all the popular lights as of late (Emisar, Fireflies, Sofirn. etc.). On all of them you get the max on full cells, then slowly drops – sorry, but it’s our only/best solution for a reasonable cost.


I guess..
The LD25 driver is FET CC though, and not expensive.
Will need some extra cooling above 3 Amperes, but can be boosted with slapping on R030 (for 4 Amperes) or R020 (for 4.5 Amperes) on top of the R010.
But with high Vf LEDs on a single cell you might as well use a DD driver.

But with low Vf LEDs on a CC driver you can also optimize the electrical path (spring bypasses and thick LED wires) and have full regulated output for a long time of the battery charge.
With the White Flat 1mm² you can keep the max current on 4 or 4.5 Amperes (diminishing effect when going above that) and keep the Vf rather low in order to be able to have full output for even longer.

2Q19

Jerommel
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netprince wrote:
I believe led4power’s driver uses a FET in its linear region. The driver must be constantly sensing how much current is passing, and adjusting the FET accordingly.

I am far from an electronics expert though.


Nor am i, but you’re right. Smile

2Q19

contactcr
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Adding 4× 7135 to just about any driver you can salvage from a junk pile?

F.i.l.a.s
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i saw some reports (djozz), that 7135 amc are killing this led, is this true or is it even possible in some way? Maybe somebody can explain, cause I am really interested about this.
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F.i.l.a.s wrote:
i saw some reports (djozz), that 7135 amc are killing this led, is this true or is it even possible in some way? Maybe somebody can explain, cause I am really interested about this.

False info. I have 2 lights with AMC drivers with this led and no problem.
contactcr
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I have a 7135×12 in a Jaxman Z1. It doesn’t get a ton of use but it has always worked fine.

I believe you are referring to this comment but even djozz says he doesn’t know why his 7135 died (note the 7135 died too, NOT the LED)

edit:

Note that it was also a 2mm2 white flat with a FET+1 driver so quite a bit different scenario

Tom E
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The thing is with specific regulated/linear drivers, they are fixed size. Right now I can do about any size in a FET+1, from 15 mm all the way up to SRK size, and lots in between combined with filing down, etc., plus I can configure them for power or e-switch lights.

Sort of related, looking for a decent host for these LED's, I do have a couple Cometa's and one B158. I did find FT has the B158 in stock at $29 with the BLF code, but I'd prefer a B158B and it seems no longer available at GB. I only have one B158, wish I got the B158B's when they were there. Now, Brinyte is under new ownership or something, or sold the B158 line - looks like they gave up on the B158. I messages with a rep a few weeks ago - the Brinyte that is now is not the old Brinyte, so not looking good for the B158's - what a shame... I think/believe the B158 is still bout the best throw for it's size around.

Of course there are many other lights/hosts that would do.

Oops, here for $26: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brinyte-B158, and here w/red for $25: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brinyte-B158.

 

 

 

 

luminarium iaculator
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Worth to mention that B158 beats all commercial available 50mm aspherical flashlights when it comes to throw… All that with super cheap 2$ acrylic lenses.

When I was telling that to certain Copyfire factory they just ignored me… They stick to their production and lenses vendors and that’s it.

Also worth to mention that B158 lens will give less die projection than other 50mm aspherical lights.

How much you can expect with White Flat? Mine cheap Uni-t Light meter says 420kcd! Yes with FET DD setup( I am obviously brainwashed hehe Smile )

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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contactcr
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Tom E wrote:
but I’d prefer a B158B

If you find one please let me know

djozz
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contactcr wrote:
Tom E wrote:
but I’d prefer a B158B

If you find one please let me know


I searched for it less than 2 months ago and it appeared gone everywhere.
Swib
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So here’s my 2 cents.

I Built a C8+ (stock AR lens) with white flat CSLNM1.TG on Noctigon xp and LD-4 driver. After doing measurements hand-held at 5 meters I decided to get out my tripod for more accuracy in measuring lux at different currents.

Keep in mind that the led is very close to center but not exact with stock xp centering ring not yet focused.

So here are my numbers:

At 4.50 amps – 160,500 cd – 801 m 4.75 amps – 163,700 cd – 809 m 5.00 amps – 167,500 cd – 818 m 5.25 amps – 168,575 cd – 821 m 5.50 amps – 169,750 cd – 824 m 5.75 amps – 166,250 cd – 815 m

Measurements done with 1330 lux meter corrected to .93 to match known lights.

For some reason I can’t get the driver to do 6 amps but as you can see with my setup the output peaks at 5.5 amps and starts to fall after that. Normally I’m a numbers guy but it doesn’t make any sense to drive this led harder than 5 amps. I’m inclined to run it even softer at 4.5 just to give it better battery life and generate less heat. The loss in candelas is a negligible trade off.

As noted before the led doesn’t like to self center on an xp MPCB so that is a challenge. I look forward to trying on a 3030 board. The stock xp centering ring is also sloppy because the hole is larger than the led. It takes time and effort to get this one even close to center. As you can imagine I’m not crazy about sanding the ring to achieve better focus.

Pros:

Very low Vf. Longer runtime at top output. Higher candela than dedomed xp-g2 without the hassle of dedoming and tint shift. Throws further than any single cell C8 I’ve seen to date.

Cons:

A little too white for my taste. Needs a custom centering ring.

As a comparison, the same light with XPL-HI V3 3A direct driven at 5 amps gives me 650 meters throw. A 2S dedomed XP-G2 driven at 5.1 amps shows just under 800 meters.

If you don’t like what it looks like on the wall, take it outside.

contactcr
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Are those numbers tail reading or what you have set in the LD-4 driver firmware?

Swib
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Tail reading with a uni-t clamp meter. I’m reading .25 amps below what the driver is set at.

If you don’t like what it looks like on the wall, take it outside.

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contactcr wrote:
Got it, regulated, MOVING ON before we alert Barkuti

 

Possible solution for using a bigger reflector insulation gasket/centering ring with a smaller emitter: glue it using a slow curing glue. I've been succesful using Zhanlida B-6000 transparent glue to attach XM/XHP50 centering rings over 3535 emitters, for example.

Did you say the tint of these Osram emitters is angry blue? 

 

Cheers Party 

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Swib wrote:

So here are my numbers:

At 4.50 amps – 160,500 cd – 801 m 4.75 amps – 163,700 cd – 809 m 5.00 amps – 167,500 cd – 818 m 5.25 amps – 168,575 cd – 821 m 5.50 amps – 169,750 cd – 824 m 5.75 amps – 166,250 cd – 815 m


Those are some sweet numbers, mine does only 120kCd @ 4.5A (LD-B4 + MOSLED 3030 MCPCB).
I’ll have to try a 3D printed centering ring to see if I can focus the LED better

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Enderman
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Swib wrote:
So here are my numbers:

Those numbers are at turn on, right?
There’s no way you’re getting peak performance at 5.5A after several minutes of runtime.
led4power
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Swib wrote:
Tail reading with a uni-t clamp meter. I'm reading .25 amps below what the driver is set at.

My UNI-T clamp meter usually reads too low, so I believe currents are closer to UI set values, which means peak is actually at ~5.7Amps, just like I measured.

 

Enderman
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led4power wrote:

Swib wrote:
Tail reading with a uni-t clamp meter. I’m reading .25 amps below what the driver is set at.

My UNI-T clamp meter usually reads too low, so I believe currents are closer to UI set values, which means peak is actually at ~5.7Amps, just like I measured.


 


What meter is it?
Have you compared it to a fluke?
If it’s a 210E then I would trust the clamp meter much more than the driver UI settings.
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Yes, 210E. The thing is, I test every driver before shipping ,one of tests is current check (with Rigol DP811 PSU which has 0.1% current reading accuracy), for ex. 1.20A medium is in 1.17-1.22A range for 95% of drivers. Similar applies to other modes, but due to test connectors limitations I can check high mode for 3Amp driver versions.

Anyway, his numbers are pretty close to what I measured on bench test, peak is definitely higher than what djozz' test shows, and conclusion was that djozz' test rig has some additional thermal resistance which is not negligible, which causes lower peak outputs on higher power LEDs.

EDIT: just tested my 210E clamp meter with Rigol DP811 which confirms it's not that great for current measuring: at 5.00A CC set on PSU, it reads 4.88A, at 6.00A CC it reads 5.87A, at 7.00A CC it reads 6.82A!

Error is quite big, and zero-ing doesn't help at all since offset it is already +-0.01A during measurements.

 

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led4power wrote:
… just tested my 210E clamp meter with Rigol DP811 which confirms it's not that great for current measuring: at 5.00A CC set on PSU, it reads 4.88A, at 6.00A CC it reads 5.87A, at 7.00A CC it reads 6.82A!

Error is …

Predictable and cancelled out if multiplying by ((5 ÷ 4.88) + (6 ÷ 5.87) + (7 ÷ 6.82)) ÷ 3 = 1.024376544492, Innocent at least in your given case.

 

Cheers Smile 

luminarium iaculator
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Tom E wrote:

Not sure why, but the old tricks of simply adding resistance by using thin, long LED wires and higher resistance batteries should do the trick. The springs you have to be careful with because even 5 amps on cheap wires may be a problem. I’d choose to use the high quality Blue springs for example, and would rather up the resistance on the wires. Of course it would be better to have a great regulated driver but that’s not so easy or cheap as a FET based driver.


 It’s like those cheap SRK’s that have the squiggle line traces all over the big driver — they are only doing that to add resistance – bypassing the traces is an easy power boost.


Example in a 12X SRK clone (added jumper to circumvent the squiggles):


I also don’t see any issue using WF1mm with FET DD single 18650 setup.
As you said we just have to add more resistance like longer thinner wires, no spring bypass, low current batteries…

For example FET DD setup will work this way(with low current battery) 4.2V > 3.5V = 5.7A > 3.5A

Proportional current drop happens when we turn on the light so no freaking chance of overcooking the led and very constant performance on lux meter to… Thumbs Up Yes! Lux performance should not drastically drop… It will not drop even 10% from 5.7A-5A…

Since led has very constant performance we will not notice significant performance drop even up to 3.5V/3.5A of battery discharge, and even beyond that mark.. FET DD cools itself naturally when performance starts dropping. So what is bad in that? Smile

So even with unregulated setup like WF1mm + FET DD can work just fine.

Now since I also use Uni-T clamp meter it seems that current measurement are bit lower than originally measured on UNI-T clamp meter but that does not changes anything… In fact… Even Better!

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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Jerommel
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luminarium iaculator wrote:

I also don’t see any issue using WF1mm with FET DD single 18650 setup.

And then you go on describing the somewhat ambiguous solution to resolve the issues…
I mean, you choose to over drive the LED up to 5.5.Amperes on a freshly charged cell, which doesn’t even add output anymore.

Sorry, but i just don’t get it.
It’s not as if there are no proper CC drivers out there.

2Q19

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