OSRAM CSLNM1.TG 1mm, CSLPM1.TG 2mm, CULNM1.TG 1mm

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PML
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Plastic gaskets can melt too. In all my >4Amps flashlights I have to use pliers to remove gaskets which sticked to the board after some longer time. Maybe I am using some bad gaskets. Or can add some thin ptfe tape under to avoid sticking the reflector.

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Gaskets would best be made from electrically insulative materials that are somewhat hard and have a maximum continuous service temperature of around 150°C or greater such as PEI, G7, G11, etc. Acetal is only rated for 105°C or so.

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I’ve never had a white one melt but I have had 2 black ones melt

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Barkuti wrote:

Wellp, I’m no expert in this but, according to this advice from master djozz, should I file the gasket as low as possible? I think someone said somewhere he was sitting the reflector right over the led board for White Flats, using polyimide film for insulating purposes. I also have polyimide film but I’d prefer to leave some centering stuff for peace of mind in case some muggle unscrews the bezel and loosens the reflector.


I don’t even know how to make a photograph of the beam right now, that would help doesn’t it? This stuff:


 



Do I need to generate some good deal of smoke to attain this? 


 


Smile 


That picture was made by me Big Smile
My wife was cooking a lot in winter and everything closed in the house. I made this picture very close to the kitchen Wink
For centering rings in C8 I usually sand down the gaskets. It is not true they are self centering themselves on a white flat led. If the MCPCB is not in perfect center it will be no good. Also reflector can move sideways a little while tightening down. I used to shine to the ceiling while tightening the bezel last few turns and smack a little the side of the head and every time I just tightening a little and then smack again if the spot is not perfect.
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I’ve only been able to fins centring gaskets for the white flat at Mountain Electronics and Intl-Outdoor. Does anybody else sell them?

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it would be nice if someone can make some custom centering gaskets.
i am interesting to buy one for my KD 86mm reflector (19.5mm)

led4power
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KW CULNM1.TG is 4.0x4.0mm version of KW CSLNM1.TG (or 1mm2 version of Oslon boost HX), with lower thermal resistance, I tested two 5Q bin samples under same conditions (fan cooled heatsink), results:

 

So we got the first white LED that broke 1000lm/mm2 barrier (by a decent margin in case of higher performing sample)smile

What can be seen from numbers is two samples are within 5Q bin rating (710 - 800lm@3A), but one is at bottom and other is closer to upper level. 5Q bin is comparable to 6N bin of CSLNM1.TG (315-355lm at 1A).

Compared to CSLNM1.TG (white flat) peak current is just a litlle bit higher 6.0-6.5A vs ~5.75A. I was surprised by this, I expected more like 7A, but it seems droop effect at these current densities becomes so dominant that output stops increasing even if you cool LED die well.

But CULNM1.TG's lower thermal resistance does help and max. output is higher at high currents.

Also the other good thing about lower thermal resistance is lower junction temperature, at 6Amps die temperature is about 75C higher than ambient, CSLNM1.TG temperature at 6Amps would be ~96C higher than ambient. So CULNM1.TG should be more reliable /longer living at high currents.

Disadvantage is considerably higher price compared to CSLNM1.TG and the fact that it has been already "scheduled for obsolescence " by OSRAM due to lower than expected demand.

 

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“…lower than expected demand.” Sad

I know we can’t fix that with our paltry numbers, compared to corporate purchasers. But it would be nice if we could help it a little with a group buy or something. Wink

What is the price for these? Can they go cheaper because of otherwise low demand? Innocent

PS: Remember too, that the L4P Q8 replacement MCPCB has 4040 pads on it. Party

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A little less than I expected….but nevertheless HAIL TO THE NEW KING.
It makes 336 cd/mm², twice as much as XP-L HI (which needs > 4.2V to reach its max). And it’s better than Black Flat by a third.

L4P could you share the datasheet?

ADDED: BTW, according to my notes Enderman got 1115 lm out of White Flat. Though I guess this is more of a test setup difference, I strongly suspect that your lumens are different than his lumens.

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How long until 2mm boost hx?

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I’m definitely interested in 2

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led4power wrote:


KW CULNM1.TG is 4.0×4.0mm version of KW CSLNM1.TG (or 1mm2 version of Oslon boost HX)


KW CULNM1.TG is 4.0×4.0mm version of KW CSLNM1.TG!!!

Whoa! More lumens plus more lux and yet Osram wants to discontinue that Facepalm ?

Nice find L4P!

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Agro wrote:
A little less than I expected....but nevertheless HAIL TO THE NEW KING. It makes 336 cd/mm², twice as much as XP-L HI (which needs > 4.2V to reach its max). And it's better than Black Flat by a third. L4P could you share the datasheet? ADDED: BTW, according to my notes Enderman got 1115 lm out of White Flat. Though I guess this is more of a test setup difference, I strongly suspect that your lumens are different than his lumens.

I measured 950-980lm for white flat if that helps, but neither of us have proper integrating sphere.

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twisted raven wrote:
How long until 2mm boost hx?

 

Boost HX is just CSPM1.TG in 4040 package, so you can expect similar difference - 5~10%, I don't know why people are hyping boost HX so much, like it's gonna perform 50% better than CSLPM1, it's the same die in bigger package.

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BTW, I have limited qty for sale (100 something pcs), I'll put listings tonight.

This LED is compatible with 16mm 4040 Cu DTP board, 20mm Cu mosDTP board and BLF Q8 4040/5050 Cu DTP board.

 

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led4power wrote:

twisted raven wrote:
How long until 2mm boost hx?

 


Boost HX is just CSPM1.TG in 4040 package, so you can expect similar difference – 5~10%, I don’t know why people are hyping boost HX so much, like it’s gonna perform 50% better than CSLPM1, it’s the same die in bigger package.


According to the datasheet it offers the same lm/A with lower Vf – so it’s more efficient. And thermal resistance drop is huge, to the point that K/W/mm² is better than that of White Flat.

Considering that thermals used to be the most important performance predictor for overdriven LEDs – yes, Boost HX looked revolutionary.
Your Boost HL results do curb my enthusiasm. Though I still expect it to be the best LED for large throwers.

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led4power wrote:
BTW, I have limited qty for sale (100 something pcs), I'll put listings tonight.

This LED is compatible with 16mm 4040 Cu DTP board, 20mm Cu mosDTP board and BLF Q8 4040/5050 Cu DTP board.

Hmm, exciting times for my Z1. Maybe I'll throw this in it. I'd been planning on reflowing a white flat from 16mm to 20mm board, since I damaged the one on my 20mm board.

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L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special
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Some efficiency chart:

Sample 1 of CULNM1.TG is clearly less efficient than White Flat but it holds up longer to achieve ultimate win.
Sample 2 is slightly more efficient and keeps its own early on while pulling farther ahead at high currents.

Nothing surprising.

BTW, sample 1 didn’t reach 1000 lm/mm². The die is 1.069 mm² so it’s a tad under 960 lm/mm². Sample 2 exceeded 1048 lm/mm².

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Agro wrote:
led4power wrote:

twisted raven wrote:
How long until 2mm boost hx?

 

Boost HX is just CSPM1.TG in 4040 package, so you can expect similar difference - 5~10%, I don't know why people are hyping boost HX so much, like it's gonna perform 50% better than CSLPM1, it's the same die in bigger package.

According to the datasheet it offers the same lm/A with lower Vf - so it's more efficient. And thermal resistance drop is huge, to the point that K/W/mm² is better than that of White Flat. Considering that thermals used to be the most important performance predictor for overdriven LEDs - yes, Boost HX looked revolutionary. Your Boost HL results do curb my enthusiasm. Though I still expect it to be the best LED for large throwers.

Yes, HX is more efficient than CULNM1.TG  - reason is 2x larger die, so you need 2x lumens for the same throw. I agree HX would be better for bigger lights, but for small and medium lights CULNM1.TG/CSLNM1.TG is better for maximum throw at still relatively low current of ~5-6Amp.

 

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led4power wrote:

Agro wrote:
led4power wrote:

twisted raven wrote:
How long until 2mm boost hx?

 


Boost HX is just CSPM1.TG in 4040 package, so you can expect similar difference – 5~10%, I don’t know why people are hyping boost HX so much, like it’s gonna perform 50% better than CSLPM1, it’s the same die in bigger package.


According to the datasheet it offers the same lm/A with lower Vf – so it’s more efficient. And thermal resistance drop is huge, to the point that K/W/mm² is better than that of White Flat. Considering that thermals used to be the most important performance predictor for overdriven LEDs – yes, Boost HX looked revolutionary. Your Boost HL results do curb my enthusiasm. Though I still expect it to be the best LED for large throwers.

Yes, HX is more efficient than CULNM1.TG  – reason is 2x larger die, so you need 2x lumens for the same throw. I agree HX would be better for bigger lights, but for small and medium lights CULNM1.TG/CSLNM1.TG is better for maximum throw at still relatively low current of ~5-6Amp.


 


No, Boost HX was supposed to be more efficient than CSLPM1.TG. See the datasheets. Both have about the same output at any given current, from 1A all the way to 6A, both with the lowest and the highest bins.
But Boost HX has ~2.89V at 1A and White 2 has ~2.94V. Small but grows with current. At 4A it’s ~3.2 vs. ~3.29. At 6A ~3.35 vs ~3.52. That’s where the datasheet ends, about 5% difference. If the trend continues this should be about 7% efficiency boost at high current. And considering that peak output for all new Osrams is just below 50 lm/W – this lower Vf should push the peak intensity up by about 7%.

Actually even if the Vf difference is not there – it should still gain more from the bigger package than the 1 mm² die. Because it was more thermally limited at 3030 format in the first place.

I expected Boost HX to seriously undermine the XHP35 thrower market. Now….I still think it will make a splash. Just not that big one.

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Datasheet Vf curves are usually given for some typ. Vf bin, what I see in real life is CSLNM1 and CSLPM1 come in lowest "15" Vf bin, while CULNM1 (my samples) are middle "B5" Vf bin.

This means you can't really make predictions using datasheet numbers, Vf values of "15" binned CSLPM1 are considerably lower that what datasheet suggests.

 

Agro
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Another picture, rescaled each curve so they start at the same point.
This way we can see clearer how does performance scale with current, abstracting away efficiency of individual LEDs. Here some samples are clearly better than the others, such test hides this difference.

The curves for Boost HL nearly merge into one, that’s good…much better than I’d expect…this hints at very good test setup.

I would expect Boost HL and White Flat to score pretty much the same at low currents but pull ahead later on.
That’s not the case, they start the same, White Flat is actually better at middle currents and Boost HL pulls since 4A (which is about 6.5 at the X axis).

I would think this win in the middle to be a test fluke but the consistency of Boost HLs makes me wonder it’s actually real.
I don’t know and I don’t have an explanation.

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Thanks for these graphs Agro.

Which numbers did you use for cslnm1.tg? You have mentioned Enderman got 1115 lm, I got considerably lower max. (950~980lm) for the same 6N bin, djozz' numbers seem to be also <1000lm from last test.

Also it's worth mentioning that 6N bin is second highest datasheet bin fom cslnm1.tg, while 5Q bin is second lowest  datasheet bin for culnm1.tg.

We don't know what bins are practically possible, but we can realistically assume culnm1.tg could come in one bin above 5Q.

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I used to use your lower numbers because you highlighed them.
But since you mentioned getting 980 lm a couple of days ago I went with that in these 2 charts (though in the latter it doesn’t matter as it’s linearly scaled anyway).

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led4power wrote:

BTW, I have limited qty for sale (100 something pcs), I’ll put listings tonight.


This LED is compatible with 16mm 4040 Cu DTP board, 20mm Cu mosDTP board and BLF Q8 4040/5050 Cu DTP board.


 


Have they been put up for sale yet? Or already sold out?
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Added to site, sorry for delay, busy as usual:

CULNM1.TG

 

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I’m surprised but quite large price hike.
It is the throw king and for quite a few uses – well worth the price. But I’m still wondering.
Is it that Osram charges much more? Or is poor availability the reason? Can we expect the same hike from Boost HX?

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Price of reels is significantly higher than white flats, and reel is 2000pcs, I guess higher price is mainly caused by the fact that LED is not mass produced.

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I see, thank you. So…you’re not short of them yet Smile

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This is going straight into my L2. It should centre a lot easier than it’s 3030 brothers. With the Luxeon V’s, I reamed a 3535 gasket with a 5.5mm drill bit and it fitted perfectly. It should work with this one as well….

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