【convoy】OP reflector for M21C/M26C,12groups xhp70.2 driver for one cell,available now

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andr3w
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oweban wrote:
I’d just love to get a flashing kit for the 17mm 5A one! Would be good to try and write custom firmware.
Looking for that as well. Need such a kit, as far as I understand (not sure): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32725360255.html
Di_Joker wrote:
Hi, will there be XHP50.2 3V emitters and flashlights with it on sale?? I would be interested in Convoy S2+ (17mm driver for SST40 5A) XHP50.2 3V

Supporting this question. I was looking for 6V 17mm or 20mm drivers for XHP50.2, but it’s not easy to find it small enough to fit S2+
This is the closest, but not available for sale: http://www.loneoceans.com/labs/gxb172/

Sirstinky
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andr3w wrote:
oweban wrote:
I’d just love to get a flashing kit for the 17mm 5A one! Would be good to try and write custom firmware.
Looking for that as well. Need such a kit, as far as I understand (not sure): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32725360255.html
Di_Joker wrote:
Hi, will there be XHP50.2 3V emitters and flashlights with it on sale?? I would be interested in Convoy S2+ (17mm driver for SST40 5A) XHP50.2 3V

Supporting this question. I was looking for 6V 17mm or 20mm drivers for XHP50.2, but it’s not easy to find it small enough to fit S2+
This is the closest, but not available for sale: http://www.loneoceans.com/labs/gxb172/

I had run a 3v xhp50.2 in my UF-20 host with the 17mm (old fet driver that doesn’t have Biscotti) and it runs great! Single Vapcell VTC6 rewrap and it’s crazy bright. That driver will do 6+ A on a fresh high drain cell, more than the new version driver with Biscotti. Yes, the UI isn’t as easy to master as Biscotti but I’ll take power over function sometimes!

Barkuti
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Sirstinky wrote:

That driver will do 6+ A on a fresh high drain cell, more than the new version driver with Biscotti. Yes, the UI isn't as easy to master as Biscotti but I'll take power over function sometimes!

Solder some additional proper value sense resistor in parallel with the stock one, and have both Biscotti and (PWM free) regulation. Problem solved, Sirstinky.

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Sirstinky
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Hmm so I can make the output as good as the older one? How do I do that? What resistor do I need to add? If it’s easy I might take that nlon since I like Biscotti quite a bit over that other UI. Thanks

Funtastic
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Barkuti wrote:

Small, important question:


Can the newer, Biscotti powered SST-40 linear drivers, work with bleeding resistors and lighted tailcaps?

Where is this driver? I can’t find it on the Convoy store

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EasyB
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Funtastic wrote:
Barkuti wrote:

Small, important question:


Can the newer, Biscotti powered SST-40 linear drivers, work with bleeding resistors and lighted tailcaps?

Where is this driver? I can’t find it on the Convoy store

I believe it is the 4 mode driver 0.1, 3, 30, 100%, but have to you ask for biscotti when you order it.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1628420#comment-1628420

Funtastic
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Okay, I’ll message Simon and inquire. It would be perfect for the Osram whit flat on my hunting light, 100% only

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Barkuti
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As EasyB says, the newer linear driver which can now be ordered with Biscotti is the ∅17mm SST-40 5A. The ∅20mm 6A and ∅22mm 6A SST-40 drivers will also be available with Biscotti, as Simon said here.

On the topic of raising the maximum output current for these drivers, and answering Sirstinky's question, since the drivers are regulated it must be noted that each driver mode implies a proportional voltage drop at the current sense resistor. Given that the ∅17mm 5A driver uses a 10 mΩ sense resistor (along with the ∅20 and ∅22 mm versions), we can calculate the driver's sense voltage(s). For the highest mode, 5 A, V = I × R = 5 A × 10 mΩ = 50 mV. So, the driver allows up to 50 mV of drop in its sense resistor (not verified by me yet), with proportionally less sense voltage in the lower modes.

I made a search in AliExpress for 1210 “sense” resistors of adequately low value, found 3 advertisements worth mentioning. From cheapest to most expensive as I see them, including shipping and handling:

  1. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000052318048.html Chinese Super Electronic market.
  2. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947351635.html Longqi store.
  3. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/644897575.html C&G Semiconductor.

All of them sell values which matter here. A few examples for 50 mV sense voltage:

  • A 56 mΩ (R033) resistor adds I = 50 mV / 56 mΩ = 0.893 A (0.892̅8̅5̅7̅1̅4̅).
  • A 33 mΩ (R033) resistor adds I = 50 mV / 33 mΩ = 1.515 A (1.5̅1̅).
  • A 30 mΩ (R030) resistor adds I = 50 mV / 30 mΩ = 1.667 A (1.6̅).
  • A 22 mΩ (R022) resistor adds I = 50 mV / 22 mΩ = 2.273 A (2.2̅7̅).
  • A 20 mΩ (R020) resistor adds I = 50 mV / 22 mΩ = 2.5 A.

All of them can be combined in parallel. And bear in mind that while this increases the maximum possible output, remember that you will only reach it for as long as there's enough voltage difference headroom between the input from the loaded battery and the emitter Vf at that current, after spring and contact losses and etc. You also may not want to raise the maximum current excessively, as it will affect the remaining modes proportionally. After adding an R020 in parallel with the stock R010, for example, the 30% mode will raise to 2.25 A and 3% mode to 0.225 A.

At last I'll just add that, if you remove the onboard negative thermal coefficient resistor used for temperature control, please make sure you reinforce driver cooling as much as possible, and take proper care. 

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Simon Mao
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Di_Joker wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
Hi, will there be XHP50.2 3V emitters and flashlights with it on sale?? I would be interested in Convoy S2+ (17mm driver for SST40 5A) XHP50.2 3V

sorry ,no plan ,because beam spot of sst40 is more even than xhp50.2
In contrast, I recommend sst40

Ryzbor
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Simon Mao wrote:
sorry ,no plan ,because beam spot of sst40 is more even than xhp50.2 In contrast, I recommend sst40
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Simon, will the new 22mm boost driver with Biscotti also be availible in 20mm?

virence.com Nichia E21A 3000K + 4000K mix Wizard Pro ; Skilhunt H03 XP-E2 660nm Photo Red ; Wizard Pro E21A 2000K

 

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Hi Simon and everyone!
My M21C review is out now:

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Ryzbor wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
sorry ,no plan ,because beam spot of sst40 is more even than xhp50.2 In contrast, I recommend sst40
Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Simon, will the new 22mm boost driver with Biscotti also be availible in 20mm?

I don’t quite understand, which driver are you talking about specifically?
In addition, you want 20mm size?

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ZozzV6 wrote:
Hi Simon and everyone! My M21C review is out now:

Thanks

oweban
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I think he means the 17/22mm SST40 driver that we can ask for Biscotti on – if that’s going to be made available in 20mm format.

Is that just an Attiny13 on it? Maybe I should have grabbed those instead of the 6A CC drivers Smile

Ryzbor
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Simon Mao wrote:

I don’t quite understand, which driver are you talking about specifically?
In addition, you want 20mm size?

If the 22mm boost driver with Biscotti UI which you supposedly use for the M21C/M26C with XHP70.2 leds will be also abailible in 20mm size.

virence.com Nichia E21A 3000K + 4000K mix Wizard Pro ; Skilhunt H03 XP-E2 660nm Photo Red ; Wizard Pro E21A 2000K

 

icpart
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If someone else have received that new biscotti driver. I have current 17mm version with 4 modes and will be interesting if we can just upgrade it the firmware. I supposed that biscotti firmware is ported to another micro different from Attiny series.

oweban
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What chip is on that board? Care to take some good photos that show the MCU?

icpart
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Ok I will made some close up pictures with my Andonstar micro and will post them soon. But I think marks on micro and transistors was laser trimmed. Also from Convoy store listing we can see markings of transistors but the MCU is it without it. Also it have 10 pins compared to 8 pins of Attiny so the Biscotti firmware is most likely ported to another MCU family.

Sirstinky
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icpart wrote:
Ok I will made some close up pictures with my Andonstar micro and will post them soon. But I think marks on micro and transistors was laser trimmed.

I got mine and yes, the markings on the mcu and mosfet are removed.

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Ryzbor wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:

I don’t quite understand, which driver are you talking about specifically?
In addition, you want 20mm size?

If the 22mm boost driver with Biscotti UI which you supposedly use for the M21C/M26C with XHP70.2 leds will be also abailible in 20mm size.

oh ,sorry ,20mm is small

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oweban wrote:
What chip is on that board? Care to take some good photos that show the MCU?

Sorry,As a trade secret, the driver manufacturer does not want to disclose the model name.

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Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
What chip is on that board? Care to take some good photos that show the MCU?

Sorry,As a trade secret, the driver manufacturer does not want to disclose the model name.


Biscotti is distributed under GPLv3 license.
This license means that you Simon (as the seller of drivers) are required by law to distribute the sources. Not just the generic biscotti that was the base for you but the exact one that you distribute on your drivers, complete with any changes that were done to port it to that MCU. That is – unless you receive a more free license from ToyKeeper.
Alen
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I want see a cigar light host like s21a,with 22mm size driver size

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icpart wrote:
… we can see markings of transistors but the MCU is it without it. Also it have 10 pins compared to 8 pins of Attiny so the Biscotti firmware is most likely ported to another MCU family.
 

I have seen that MCU on Sofirn flashlight drivers too.

Agro wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
What chip is on that board? Care to take some good photos that show the MCU?


Sorry,As a trade secret, the driver manufacturer does not want to disclose the model name.

Biscotti is distributed under GPLv3 license.
This license means that you Simon (as the seller of drivers) are required by law to distribute the sources. Not just the generic biscotti that was the base for you but the exact one that you distribute on your drivers, complete with any changes that were done to port it to that MCU. That is - unless you receive a more free license from ToyKeeper.

More about GPLv3: GPLv3 @ gnu.org

 

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oweban
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Yeah, that driver manufacturer sounds a bit… interesting. Knowing the model of an MCU doesn’t sound particularly secret given every other driver I’ve seen has all the markings on them.

Oh well.

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Usually it's easy to trace where VCC and Ground get connected to the MCU, and that, along with the package and pins, can narrow down the choices of MCU's. PIC's are usually one config for VCC/Grnd, different from Atmel's.

It's kind of despicable what's going on here - open source firmware running on proprietary hardware, where secrecy seems to be the goal. Do they really think they have something so special and unique, they want to copy protect the design but use someones else's firmware they don't have to pay for? Of course we know there's lots of stolen ideas/designs there - it's the wild wild west, but a simple flashlight driver? I dunno...

 

Sirstinky
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Tom E wrote:

Usually it’s easy to trace where VCC and Ground get connected to the MCU, and that, along with the package and pins, can narrow down the choices of MCU’s. PIC’s are usually one config for VCC/Grnd, different from Atmel’s.


It’s kind of despicable what’s going on here – open source firmware running on proprietary hardware, where secrecy seems to be the goal. Do they really think they have something so special and unique, they want to copy protect the design but use someones else’s firmware they don’t have to pay for? Of course we know there’s lots of stolen ideas/designs there – it’s the wild wild west, but a simple flashlight driver? I dunno…


 

As I understand it, the Chinese electronics market is incredibly competitive, with so many firms making parts for each other and then selling them at a premium to one or discounting the others. Some manufacturers sell to only certain companies with the promise their identity is kept secret, otherwise other competitors might get wise and copy the design or undercut them on pricing. If you’ve ever opened up products from different manufacturers, you get an idea of this. An LG vs Memorex versus a Coby portable DVD player,for example. The LG will have better quality control, probably some better design (more SMD vs through hole) with better parts. The other brands might have cheaper plastics, more theough hole with bodging and solder flux, etc. However, the same company might supply ICs or parts to all the big OEMs. In China everything is counterfeited or copied (even flashlights folks).

oweban
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Regardless of that, if it’s using Biscotti, they have to be open about it. If they don’t want to be open, use another firmware.

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Selling the driver without being able and willing to provide the source code of the version of the Biscotti firmware running on it is copyright infringement unless ToyKeeper has specifically given Convoy permission to sell it without providing the source code. Providing the source code for a version that doesn’t run on this MCU is not sufficient.

That does not, strictly mean that the make and model of the MCU has to be disclosed, but it’s probably easy enough to determine from the source code and its physical layout.

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To clear up any confusion…

I have not given Convoy any special licenses. If this product ships without providing full source code, it will probably be a license violation, and Convoy would lose the right to sell anything based on my code.

Full details are in the license (translated: zh-cn, zh-tw).

It is not difficult to satisfy, and usually costs nothing. It is a “share and share alike” style license, meaning that anyone who distributes a compiled version (including derivatives) must also provide the complete source code for that same version, under the same license, retaining all the original copyright marks.

Usually people satisfy the license by doing the following:

  1. Publish a message somewhere prominent stating that the product uses copyrighted code released under the GNU Public License v3 (GPLv3).
  2. Include information about how to get the exact source code used in the product. If it is an unmodified version, a link to the upstream code works. Or if it’s modified, they must find a way to publish the version they used.

That info generally goes on the product page and/or in the included paper manual. Ideally both:

  • The license applies to anyone who distributes the code in a compiled form, which includes companies who sell products based on the code. In other words, it applies to every vendor and reseller. So it’s a good idea to put the information in a printed manual which ships with the product, because that means the vendor doesn’t have to know or care about the license.
  • Even if the license info is in the manual, it is also a good idea to include the license info on the original manufacturer’s product page too. This allows people to verify the license is being fulfilled, which means I don’t have to bother the manufacturers with messages like this one.

The concept of “trade secret” is completely incompatible with the concept of free software. The whole point is that nothing is secret — anyone can use it however they want, as long as they make sure the same freedom is passed on to others.

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