No more PAYPAL at AliExpress

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MyRants
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RobertB, The paypal option never appears on the checkout page where you actually select the payment method.

 

Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish. -- Mark Twain

Kame Sennin
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I use paypal when it's available and that's what i did for my firsts ali buys but even if PP was available on some AE shops, far from all allowed it reducing choice and even with the dealers allowing PP i was not able to combine payment for various shops and AE added (iirc) about 1.5€ fee on each PP transction so i switched to visa and after maybe 30-40 transactions i never had a problem.

 

 

Rexlion
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I tried to buy a Wuben light on Ali a few days ago, there was no PP option, and after entering all my info and hitting the final button the site logged me out or something… no sale. I gave up.

RobertB
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MyRants wrote:

 


RobertB, The paypal option never appears on the checkout page where you actually select the payment method.


 

Send them a message and tell them you want to pay with paypal. Thats what you do with Simon at Convoy. Have done it a dozen or more times.

RobertB
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MyRants wrote:

 


RobertB, The paypal option never appears on the checkout page where you actually select the payment method.


 

Actually, paypal shows up as a payment method in the Convoy Store. It didn’t used to and you had to email him.

WalkIntoTheLight
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I had a Visa card that I only ever used on 2 places: Paypal, and AliExpress.

One morning, I got a call from my bank. Someone used my card to buy a couple of thousand dollars worth of stuff from various Ali sites (I’m not sure if that is relevant or not).

Anyway, I got my money back, but it was a bit of a PITA.

I trust that Paypal kept my credit card info more secure than Ali. If Paypal was an option on Ali, I’d definitely use it for the extra security. Credit cards are awful for security. All someone needs is your card info, which every site seems to store. Ali seems to store it insecurely.

acab
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it would be great if any of these online shops would offer a tokenized payment solution.
I am not expecting apple pay, but anything like this would be good.
Frankly, these companies are big enough to even become a global issuer.

leftdisconnected
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wle wrote:
so you trust paypal then? i don’t..

That’s absolutely fine. Everyone has to decide in whom to trust. I simply want to trust as few companies as practical.

PayPal has lots of incentive to protect your credentials as losing them will cause billions in lawsuits or even possible bankruptcy. We have not yet seen a major customer data breach of Google, Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, or PayPal to my knowledge. That’s why I brought up the local restaurant chain as an example; they don’t have a multi-million-dollar security team hired from deep talent pools.

Target and other stores have the proper incentive, as well, but they are not primarily trust brokers; they are retail outlets and their technical expertise is often less than cutting-edge. Google, PayPal, or another company may lose all our stuff tomorrow, but they all know that such a breach would be severely harmful. The big players have huge targets painted on their backs, for better and worse.

I’ve had a PayPal account since the 1990’s when they first partnered with eBay. I don’t know if they’re trustworthy, but I’ve never lost money with them and they’ve never reported a serious breach of their systems nor has anyone accused them of hiding such a breach. Perhaps I’ve simply not heard about their bad behavior?

My only complaints are with their aggressive tactics, their ridiculous resistance to be regulated as a bank, and that their system repeatedly switched my payment source from credit card to PayPal Credit during 2017.

I have screenshots showing that the credit card was selected for at least one of those transactions, yet I later got statements from PayPal Credit claiming a balance. I was not happy Angry , but this hasn’t happened in about 2 years. Was it website error or fraud? I don’t know.

Nothing is foolproof and your approach is absolutely fine since you will avoid the harm when PayPal does get breached or misuses our data. Trust is a huge, seemingly intractable, problem in the Internet Era. The almighty block chain has not magically solved that problem.

RobAllen

Lightbringer
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Have someone send you some bux and then get a PP debit card. Turn off automatic top-off which’d pull bux from a linked card/account. Then, only keep enough bux to cover any purchases you’d expect to make, like, that day. Or only turn it on for a purchase greater than the balance you have (it does it on 10buk increments), then immediately turn it off.

You then use the PP debit card like any other CC/DC.

Anyone then tries to use the PP debit card for bogus charges, it’ll be blocked for ISF, and PP would likely notice it and hopefully lock it.

So now you can use the PPDC as a regular Mastercard/Visa/whatever DC, it’s not able to reach into your real account and is effectively divorced from your account, and the most you could lose is up to 10bux (assuming you don’t keep more on it).

I got nicked for the 80¢ charge once, which to me was still worth it in case the shipment got lost, stolen, otherwise disappeared into the Shenzhen Triangle. But now with the PP DC, not a problem. Usable across the board with no extra charge, and still got that extra level of PP protection.

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leftdisconnected
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Lightbringer wrote:
Have someone send you some bux and then get a PP debit card. …You then use the PP debit card like any other CC/DC.

I’ve been looking into that, so thanks as your info is timely and helpful Beer .

RobAllen

acab
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Up until recently I used Entropay for pp and aliexpress. Since entropay is now defunct, does anybody have alternative solutions?

dhvl1357
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6APNcFOuE1g

Lots of sellers are ditching paypal. Here’s Louis Rossmann on why.

Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.

RobertB
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dhvl1357 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6APNcFOuE1g

Lots of sellers are ditching paypal. Here’s Louis Rossmann on why.

Louis doesn’t offer an alternative. Until there is an alternative who will keep my financial information from getting hacked, I’ll keep using Paypal like I have been for the last 20yrs with no problems, both as a merchant and a customer.

A couple years ago we were on vacation in Europe, when my wife’s card gets declined. CC company stops the card for suspicious purchases. We get home a couple weeks later to find this letter from Prana.

leftdisconnected
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dhvl1357 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6APNcFOuE1g

Lots of sellers are ditching paypal. Here’s Louis Rossmann on why.

I was somewhat aware of this problem, but did not know about the May 7 change and had not seen the Rossmann video. My awareness of PayPal’s fee structure was from over a decade ago, so I knew that my knowledge was obsolete from a numbers perspective.

If I was a merchant, I would not accept PayPal and this helps explain why many of the AliExpress sellers I’m now seeing are not accepting it. I imagine that May 7 triggered these changes.


Coincidentally, I’ve recently found out that criminals are using PayPal to send donations to some open source projects using stolen accounts or credit cards. Guess what? This costs the recipient, a penniless open source developer, the PayPal fees every time PayPal turns around and refunds the fraudulent charge! In other words, they punish the recipient of the donation as though they were guilty of fraud.

And that was before PayPal changed the 2.9% policy. I’ve even seen claims that people are donating through PayPal with fraudulent accounts on purpose just to drain money from open source developers (or anyone) who the idiots perceive has “wronged” them.

In other words, Louis is dead-right about losers on 4chan doing this just to screw with merchants like him. PayPal is thus culpable in this travesty as their policies have created this form of attack, even if the attackers themselves make no money from the strategy. Basically, PayPal profits from the misfortunes of merchants.


There are no non-PayPal options which have (had) the widespread acceptance of PayPal Sad . Regardless, I sincerely hope that this policy change kills PayPal. Keeping their 2.9% for every refund for any reason is simply wrong.

To be fair, however, I do want to admit that PayPal has operated their business with much less overhead than a company like Patreon, which now has hundreds of employees for no obvious reason. How many people does it take to run a website? They surely aren’t hiring people with advanced degrees just answer phones.

Also, PayPal allows me to use my credit card as a payment source with no extra fee. I don’t know how they do this, as credit card companies charge more than 2.9%. Some charge 9%, which should also be illegal (I’ve hated Discover for decades as they should not exist and would never accept their cards as a merchant).


Let’s be honest. We consumers are pretty stupid, as we now insist upon credit cards that pay us 1-2% “cash back” when it’s our own money they are paying back to us. To get that 1.5% cash back, the card companies have all raised their merchant rates by 3-4%!! The card companies make out quite well, but merchants have to charge 3-4% more for their products and services just so we can have 1-2% “cash back”.

Abbot and Costello once did routine where one would trick the other into giving him two 10’s for a 5. Well, it’s not comedy anymore. We’re that stupid. The credit card companies ask for 3-6% extra, give us back 1.5%, and we think we’re financial geniuses. “The card that pays you back.”

RobAllen

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raccoon city wrote:
I trust PayPal.

Personally I can’t say that I trust them but I have had one dispute with an online seller that was stalling, and as soon as I mentioned I was going to file a Paypal dispute I got my money back.

Not sure how any of the major credit card brands would have handled a dispute, I can’t even say how Paypal would have handled it, but my mentioning of Paypal dispute did seem to have an impact.

acab
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One advantage with PP is that disputes or charge backs do not cost anything or they cost less than my credit card provider or bank would charge. If the charge back is related to an ebay purchase there are no fees for the buyer if the seller is domestic (from what I can tell). I am not into all the changes and details that seem to happen weekly.

Lightbringer
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Ummm, since when does ordering from AX through PP charge tax?

I was all set to pay something like 4.92, and when I clicked to order, the total instantly jumped to 5.35 or whatever (ballpark; just guessing from memory as to the amounts).

Looked at the order details, and I got nicked for 44¢ tax!

Anyone know if this is something new from AX, or is it because I paid through PP?

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acab
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I don’t have any tax surcharges for any of my AExpress orders, regardless how I pay for them.
there is an actual PP charge, of course, which can be quite high (I just paid a 3.50 $ PP charge for a few items?!).

BlueSwordM
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Well, how expensive was the total purchase?

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

acab
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a bit over 18 dollars. 3.5 dollars for the PP charge.
I think it also depends on whether you are purchasing fewer items or just 1.
(These are cell phone covers)

BlueSwordM
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Oof 18$US.

That’s expensive. Even if you do (18*0,055)+0,30$US, it should still equal to a max 1,30$US in fees.

3,50$US is extreme, and means Aliexpress is not only taking profits from the sellers, but also from the Paypal payment.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

acab
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the paypal charge is different depending on what item and how many you order. The “regular” pp charge is only 80 US cents for low value items. This charge suddenly goes up if you change the quantity (value) or type of item.

I wonder how the global trade war influences the PP/china ordering ecosystem.

Lightbringer
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The odd thing is, the total showed the <5buk figure right up to the point where I clicked, then bam!, 5’n‘change.

It might be actual tax, though, ‘cause here local tax is ~9%, and that’d be just about the right amount.

That’s why I’m not sure if all of a sudden PP is declaring POP (point of presence) “jurisdiction” and charging tax, vs direct payment to them nice little fellas in China.

It’s definitely coming from there, Yanwen shipping, expected delivery something in mid-July (2021, probably), and so on. Ain’t like it’s coming from a US-based warehouse or anything.

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Lightbringer
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Different seller on AX, and they just did it again. Got nicked for “tax”.

Don’t wanna order anything with my “real” card, and don’t need anything from a different company (GB, FT, etc.) yet, so am wondering if it’s an AX thing, automatically “charging” (but of course not remitting) tax, or if it’s a new PP thing.

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Lightbringer
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Followup:

Doesn’t seem to be a PP thing but an AX thing, nicking people for tax.

Just ordered from GB, amount charged (through PP) was exactly what it said on the tin, nothing “extra” taken for tax.

So, PP is in the clear on this one. Wink

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kat
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If you want extra security use Revolut and create virtual cards for every order.
After you pay you can just deactivate the card and create another

Macka17
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I’ve been on Internet since it started.
Paypal sine it started. Once they got the wriggles out of if.
Nowadays. I buy through PayPal only.
No Paypal. I go elsewhere.
There are plenty of reputable dealers that use it.

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