XHP70.2 dedoming pictures and VIDEO added

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ZozzV6
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XHP70.2 dedoming pictures and VIDEO added

I recently dedomed a few XHP70.2s and I really like the results so I want to share with all of you.
Here you can see the stages of the method:

Earlier I only shaved the dome off like on the bottom left but I don’t liked the yellow corona it made.
So I decided to slice and dice as Dale said Smile And I removed the yellow phosphor around the dies like on the bottom right one.
I have a 1mm thick aluminum plate to help the shaving cut.

The led has two bond wires on two opposite sides as you can see on this pic exposed:

They are ESD purpose and if broke one the led still works but I tried to keep them. You can see the two small yellow dots on the sides. Those are the bond wires under a tiny leftover dome material.

Then need to cut from top next to the dies. Not too close because you can cut in dies so blue light will come out on sides. So I cut 0,2-0,5mm away from dies.

Then cut under the phosphor from sides and lift and scrape off the remaining yellowness. I cut around the bond wires to keep them protected.

EDIT:
Here is a video of the edge phosphor removal (dicing) process:

To test the theory and tint shift, I made a light strip. From left to right: Domed stock led, shaved off dome, shaved dome and removed phosphor from edge.

Fired them on:

Then I putted a piece of paper on them and see what I got:

You can see that the center one is the most yellow and the right without edge phosphor barely have tint shift. The dies have 0,2-0,5mm dome material on top and all sides to protect.
I made 6 of these and then I had a sliced one in my fet driven MF02 so I decided to remove phosphor in that too.

That MF02 made 9060 lumens and 226125 cd with stock dome led.
Then made 7590 lumens and 355500 cd with sliced dome.
The surprise come here because with removed phosphor it made 7830 lumens. Maybe it could easy be a measuring error but good to see it not lost any more lumens. I can’t measured cd yet with final version because it is always foggy or snowy here nowadays but I will edit this post when measured it.
Here is the final led in the MF02:


And here is the beam without yellow corona:

Edited by: ZozzV6 on 02/06/2019 - 17:32
PBWilson
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Thank you for sharing that info.

It’s very interesting how much you can change the tint with a few careful slices.

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Nice job ZozzV6, thanks for sharing. I have done the the slice and dice but I will be trying the removal of the extra phosphor next go around. The beam looks so much better.

komeko
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What version did you shave? NW or CW?

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I think CW. They come from a dead Imalent DX80

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Nice work Zozz, very clean… Wink

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DB Custom wrote:
Nice work Zozz, very clean… Wink

Thank you! The idea came from you;)
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I think someone else suggested I try it, to remove the aura, someone that is no longer logging in and hasn’t in a while… but it works, all the flip chip technology emitters benefit from the slice and dice method. (I call it that due to the horizontal slice to remove the dome and the vertical dicing action to remove the excess phosphor)

You do it well though. Smile Meticulous in the detail department. Big Smile

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Thank you for sharing, Amazing skills! Thumbs Up What happens if you break the bond wires on the edge? Does it affect the led in any way? Will the led still work? less output? I don’t think I have brain surgeon hands that some of you were gifted with Sad

Did you clean the silicone afterwards? If so what did you use?

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Awesome… thanks for sharing the process! Now to work up the courage to try this on a ~$20 LED!

Here’s a thought… what if you could make a cement mixture to surround the emitting area similar to a White Flat?

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Scalping XHP70.2 version of NW is an average idea. I convinced myself. This is the version from Thrunite TC20. It’s getting yellow. I’ll take measurements later.

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AlexGT wrote:
Thank you for sharing, Amazing skills! Thumbs Up What happens if you break the bond wires on the edge? Does it affect the led in any way? Will the led still work? less output? I don’t think I have brain surgeon hands that some of you were gifted with Sad

Did you clean the silicone afterwards? If so what did you use?


Thanks!
I don’t know the long term affect of the broken bond wire but the 2 I broke work fine at 100mA. They aren’t putted in a light yet so I didn’t tested at higher currents. I just blowed the led with compressed air. didn’t used any cleaning material.
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Komeko:
Did you removed all the silicone from the dies top? It seems like that.
I didn’t removed all. I want to see how your turns out ! Wink

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Hmm …. I played with a knife, long and patiently Smile
Now I want to scrape all the yellow, but it will probably be the diode’s death.

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If you remove the yellow phosphor from diodes top they will turn blue.

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It can only gather some of that yellow layer?

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Nice clean slices. Thumbs Up

The way I do mine is I just take small slices with an exacto knife until the silicone is very thin. As long as the remaining silicone is as thin as possible I don’t think the surface smoothness really matters. With no bond wires to cut it is pretty hard to mess it up. So IMO there is no reason not to slice it. Then again all my lights’ LEDs are domeless (except my headlamp).

This LED sliced is definitely a potent combination of output and throw!

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Thanks for the lesson Zozz. Beer

 

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Hey ZozzV6 did you get a chance to measure CD. of the slice and “dice”?

With dome 226125 cd Sliced only 355500 cd Sliced and diced ………?

My MF02 w/xhp70.2 (sliced and diced) lexel’s driver @ 8amps only did 298,XXX CD measured at 9 meters. But my variables of measuring might differ a lot from yours.

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Very clean & precisely done ZozzV6!! Thank you for sharing the process & supporting pictures!!! . Thumbs Up

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This is very nice Mr. ZozzV6. May I know where you buy your metal pcb for led from? Thank you.

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komeko wrote:
It can only gather some of that yellow layer?

You only can remove fully from the edges. You don’t on the dies top. You need to keep a few tenth of mm silicone on them. That yellow phosphor makes white color of beam from a blue led under it. All white leds are blue under.

Redlyne22:
No I haven’t measured cd yet. Maybe tonight. I used to measure big lights at 5, 10, 15, 20 or like GT even 25m distances. This should be good at 15 and 20m. Smaller distance can read lower numbers.

Teacher:
Thank you!

clientequator:
I bought them from fasttech.com but those are 25mm MCPCB’s

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It was MEM that talked me into trying the slice and dice, back when the XP-G3 first came out… remembered that last night. Wink

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OMG! Looking back through some pictures I found where I sliced my first quad die emitter back in April of 2015! It was a Quad XHP-50 Lucky Sun D80 build… Big Smile




I had two cool white and two warm white on hand, so I mixed the tint. Worked out pretty well and had an interesting look when off too! lol

It would get hot on two 18350’s, if I used 2 18650’s it would get blistering hot within about 15 seconds! Made something over 6000 lumens with the big cells as I recall. Don’t really remember the lumens on the small cells. The light is not longer assembled but I do have the copper disc with the 4 XHP-50’s on it still…

It wasn’t until after the XP-G3 flip chip technology came out that I started dicing the additional phosphor off the substrate. Wink

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Nice job!

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Zozzv6, have you been able to run high current through yours? I sliced and diced one similar to your, cleaned it properly with surgical spirits, and put it back into my BLF GT70. It works perfectly with ramping, but on Turbo it starts burning. I immediately switch off the light and clean the black spot with surgical spirits, as the black is really on the leftover dome. It then again works on any mode less than Turbo, but what’s the point of a BLF GT70 that can’t use Turbo Big Smile

I’m guessing I sliced it too close to the die. What’s my options? Slice deeper still? Completely remove the dome, has this been done?

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I run turbo in my MF02S with no problem. It is fet driven so almost same as in a GT. You need to make sure nothing dirt left on silicone. It is hard to get it off completely because phosphor has rough surface and the dome material bonded in thet surface. So you always have some leftower or cut spme phosphor too which can cause blue tint shift.

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So do you recon my burning is either because of leftover residue or a rough/crumbly surface as apposed to the layer being too thin? Should I then try cutting closer in an attempt to get a flat and smooth cut?

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Try to cut down the burned part and blow led with compressed air. Not your cut rough. The die surface rough and dome material diffunded in that when the led was manufactured.

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Great info. I would like to duplicate your spacer. Never tried it and this would seem to be a good start. If you want to tweak the aluminum plate would you go thinner or thicker? Cree specs for the XHP70.2 (page 26) as 0.56mm for the base. Online metals has small sheets of (0.81mm / 0.032”) Too thin? Also, 1.016mm / 0.04” sheet Thanks for any help.

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Go for the 1,016mm. Mine is 1mm and if the razorblade bending a little it is easy to cut in the dies. The base thickness is without the dies so they add a little and also you need to keep a thin layer silicone on dies. So 1mm is fine.

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