TLF/BLF/Lumintop FW3A review (18650, 3x XP-L HI cool white)

251 posts / 0 new
Last post
iamlucky13
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 09:18
Posts: 611
Location: USA

As a first approximation, expect 15% less at 3000K compared to the cool white

I’m basing this on what Cree specifies in the datasheet for the best flux bin of each color temperature.

Like DB Custom says, the datasheet doesn’t tell you everything, and even what it does varies. The worst bin of 3000K would rate at 25% less than the best bin listed of any XP-L HI color temperature. The best bin of the 3000K against the worst bin of the cool whites would only be 6% lower output.

Since max output of the FW3A depends on a FET, you can also get significant differences if the forward voltage is different.

Narmattaru
Narmattaru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/19/2016 - 13:47
Posts: 443
Location: Russia

awesome review, thanx!

"How to choose flashlight, Main things in simple words":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68418

aginthelaw
aginthelaw's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 09/30/2014 - 21:31
Posts: 858
Location: noo joisey

DB Custom wrote:
Here ya go HC, 18 Samsung LH351D W6 5000K with domes sliced off, in moon mode…

Future FW3A buyers can look forward to the day the Samsungs are available, or mod their new lights. Wink

I’ll take it. Do you need my shipping address?

Did shaving make them throwier (is that a word)? How much was the tint shift?

never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 863
Location: MN

aginthelaw wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
Here ya go HC, 18 Samsung LH351D W6 5000K with domes sliced off, in moon mode…

Future FW3A buyers can look forward to the day the Samsungs are available, or mod their new lights. Wink

I’ll take it. Do you need my shipping address?

Did shaving make them throwier (is that a word)? How much was the tint shift?

I’ve shaved all the LH351Ds I have, it made them throwier (more throw than a X-PL HD, less than an HI… maybe more throw if you cut very close to the phosphor?), the color temp goes down ~500-1000 degrees and the tint gets rosier depending on how much you slice off. I took off maybe 1/2 of the height of the dome to get the result I wanted.

Tests of them show about 10-15% output loss at most power levels, and I’d say it looks that way to my eyes as well. In the same host at the same current a shaved 4000K got pretty close to the throw of a stock 4000K SST-20 and had a wider beam.

aginthelaw
aginthelaw's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 09/30/2014 - 21:31
Posts: 858
Location: noo joisey

I really need to learn soldering. Sounds exactly where i need it to be

never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 863
Location: MN
aginthelaw wrote:
I really need to learn soldering. Sounds exactly where i need it to be

If you’re bold/stupid/have steady hands you could partially shave some lights without removing the MCPCB. Not saying that it’s a good idea or that I would ever do that out of sheer laziness but it’s possible. Wink

stephenk
stephenk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/30/2016 - 05:09
Posts: 1307
Location: Australia

Are there any videos available showing how to change optics on the FW3A?

M3CSL
M3CSL's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/02/2019 - 05:34
Posts: 223

I haven’t found any, but you’d just have to unscrew the bezel, change the optics and screw it back again.

Convoy S2+ 219b triple, Astrolux FT02, Maglite 3D, Solarforce L2t

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

Received my production FW3A w/ XP-L HI 3D today. Works perfectly, even though I did tighten the driver retaining ring before even turning the light on for the first time. The finish is just slightly lighter and bluer than the proto.

The little protrusion on the clip ring is perfectly fine. It helps with the cigar grip, while the proto with a narrower ring is a bit slippery.

The emitters aren’t rosy for sure, but I’ve noticed that lower CRI emitters don’t look as green as for example CRI90 219Cs with similar duvs. This measured 4600K duv 0.0063 at 1×7135, but visually was alright. Gets closer to BBL on higher modes (8×7135, FET). The fine visual experience is also explained by my current ambient lighting conditions that are even greener (4800K duv 0.0085) because of UV blocking windows and lots of trees outside.

Integrated, the tint is not as bad as in the hotspot. So there is some tint shift in the beam but it’s not very visible to the eye. Output is 139 lumens in the 1×7135 mode.

Nichia 219b sw40 integrated at 1×7135, 83 lumens:

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11868
Location: Houston Texas

Your 3D doesn’t look rosy? Mine sure does. I like it.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12389
Location: LI NY

I'm not sure what the graphics all mean, never did understand, but where can I find the results regarding above/below the BBL? What's the test result relative to the BBL?

I find my 3D FW3A surprisingly more blue/green than rosy.

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

Duv (delta uv) is the metric which shows how far and in which direction the source is in reference to the BBL. Positive duv is green (yellow on low CCT sources), negative is rosy/pink/magenta. At least to me, some emitters seem visually more neutral on a white wall than others even with similar CCT and duv. Even a slight tint shift within the beam also affects how the beam on average is perceived even if it’s not obvious on non-rainbow like emitters like the XP-G3.

I would consider duv ±0.0030 neutral. The 219C CRI80 or XP-L HI in CRI70 look neutral even above 0.0030, but most CRI90 emitters do look greener even when they are closer to the BBL. SST-20 for me is the worst in this regard, looking greenish even when it’s near the BBL.

Objectively, the 3D in my FW3A is greenish, but much less so when evaluated visually. Most high CRI emitters we use would look pretty horrible at duv 0.0060.

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

The 3D had to give way for some dogfarts (LH351D 5000K CRI90) and a slight minus green filter (Zircon 804) and Carclo 10507.

1×7135 output dropped from 139 lm with XP-L HI to 125 lm with just the emitter change. 10507 brought it up to 126 lm and finishing with the minus green got me 112 lumens.

FET output at turn on (30Q):
XP-L HI 3D: 3035 lm
LH351D dogfarts: 2626 lm
with 804: 2334 lm

Final results is under BBL with 1×7135 and full FET.

candor
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/10/2012 - 20:44
Posts: 186
Location: NC

maukka, any chance you have some comparison beamshots?

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

Nothing on the LH351D version, but here’s 219B sw40 vs. XP-L HI 3D on a white wall and a floor with reddish tint. Should be obvious which is which.

candor
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/10/2012 - 20:44
Posts: 186
Location: NC

I appreciate it. I’m curious about the dogfarts with the 10507. Are you pleased with it? Beam profile-wise?

komeko
komeko's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 12/21/2017 - 14:26
Posts: 389
Location: Poland

Maukka, did you have an XP-L HI 7A emitter in your hands? I am interested in measurements and how it falls in FW3A.

Click on:        ANSI WHITE

Click on:        MY COLLECTION

Click on:        Q8, D4, D4S, D18, FW3A, SDmini, Mini AAA, TIP, M43, H1, H03, TC20, TN40S, TN42, V6, H600Fw, SC600w, SC64w

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

No, I don’t have the 7A.

hodor
hodor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/11/2018 - 03:58
Posts: 573
Location: UK
maukka wrote:
LH351D dogfarts: 2626 lm with 804: 2334 lm

Stock or de-domed/sliced?

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2005
Location: Finland

Dome on.

It’s pretty much a wash between dedoming and filtering when it comes to output. If you want a tighter spot, then dedome away, but for me, I kinda like the wide even spot of the stock LH351D and 10507. Great for closeup work while still retaining some throw.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 57 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10090
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
maukka wrote:
some emitters seem visually more neutral on a white wall than others even with similar CCT and duv… The 219C CRI80 or XP-L HI in CRI70 look neutral even above 0.0030, but most CRI90 emitters do look greener even when they are closer to the BBL. SST-20 for me is the worst in this regard, looking greenish even when it’s near the BBL.

That matches my experience too. Perhaps I should finally get a sheet of minus-green material and stop being so picky about which emitters are used. Almost everything is going to look green, so I should put some rose-tinted glass over it to make things look better.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Online
Last seen: 13 min 31 sec ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 3727
Location: California
ToyKeeper wrote:
maukka wrote:
some emitters seem visually more neutral on a white wall than others even with similar CCT and duv… The 219C CRI80 or XP-L HI in CRI70 look neutral even above 0.0030, but most CRI90 emitters do look greener even when they are closer to the BBL. SST-20 for me is the worst in this regard, looking greenish even when it’s near the BBL.

That matches my experience too. Perhaps I should finally get a sheet of minus-green material and stop being so picky about which emitters are used. Almost everything is going to look green, so I should put some rose-tinted glass over it to make things look better.

Lee Minus Green filters are great stuff!

I have a #279 filter in my modded FW3A right now. It’s not a Zircon filter so probably won’t last super-long in high-brightness LED applications. But on the other hand it came in a roll big enough for a hundred small flashlights.

It does reduce output 14% and makes the tint warmer though. Currently using it with 2× 5D and 1× 3D emitter.

Flashaholics
Flashaholics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Joined: 04/05/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 720
Location: Wakefield

Banggood.com have just sent me 2 XPL HI 5000K for review, I’m not sure why they sent me 2 but they are very very different

One has a frosted optic and Nichia Like tint the other has a clear optic and yellowish typical XPL 5000k tint.
The frosted one gets anywhere from 2800 to 3700 at turn on and the clear optic one gets 2600 every time.

The Frosted one is also temperamental in muggle mode, often doubling it’s power to 600ish lumens.

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - https://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLICS_GB

d_t_a
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 08/04/2017 - 23:58
Posts: 1472
Location: Manila, Philippines

Flashaholics wrote:
Banggood.com have just sent me 2 XPL HI 5000K for review, I’m not sure why they sent me 2 but they are very very different

One has a frosted optic and Nichia Like tint the other has a clear optic and yellowish typical XPL 5000k tint.
The frosted one gets anywhere from 2800 to 3700 at turn on and the clear optic one gets 2600 every time.

The Frosted one is also temperamental in muggle mode, often doubling it’s power to 600ish lumens.

How do the optics look like?

Below is a sample of the “plastic optic”, Carclo 10511, and Carclo 10507 optic on the FW3A.

Flashaholics
Flashaholics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Joined: 04/05/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 720
Location: Wakefield

The frosted one looks like the middle light but my clear optic is different from the clear one in the pic, mine doesn’t have the 3 spokes in the middle.

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - https://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLICS_GB

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20362
Location: Heart of Texas

It’s likely your clear one has the copied optics made in China. It’s supposed to have lower lumens and yours exhibits that behavior. Replace it with a factory Carclo 10507 and you should see a pretty nice lumens increase.

Flashaholics
Flashaholics's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Joined: 04/05/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 720
Location: Wakefield
DB Custom wrote:
It’s likely your clear one has the copied optics made in China. It’s supposed to have lower lumens and yours exhibits that behavior. Replace it with a factory Carclo 10507 and you should see a pretty nice lumens increase.

Cheers. Lumintop contacted me asking why banggood was all over the review, I forgot they’d also sent me one, oops.

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - https://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLICS_GB

cabfrank
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 41 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2010 - 17:25
Posts: 2961
Location: healdsburg, california usa earth

I had no idea there were clone 10507s out there. Thanks Dale, i will check mine.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20362
Location: Heart of Texas

I was not in the group buy but have recently been looking at the Titanium variant. I noticed an alert on Neal’s pages about lower numbers out of a cloned, made in China, optic. I still haven’t bought one but was looking at the sapphire lens to go with the Ti/Cu FW3A and as I already have clear spot optics that part wasn’t a concern for me… a little surprising but not really a big deal as they are so easily changed out.

The polished copper has an appeal to me as well … always something, isn’t it?

monkeyman77
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 days ago
Joined: 10/29/2012 - 21:00
Posts: 181
Location: atl ga

anyone got a link to the runtimes in steped mode?

Pages