Interesting optics thread

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kikkoman
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Agro wrote:
Yet another RXI optics from LPI, 25 mm this time: http://www.lpi-llc.com/Data%20Sheets/LPIPN-RXI2507LL01.pdf

Looks like they’ve been defunct for a few years now. Doesn’t look like they ever brought these to the market, they look more research-oriented.
But this is interesting too – I’ve seen this (middle) style before, I assumed its purpose was to produce a floody beam, but no:

http://oa.upm.es/25894/1/INVE_MEM_2013_161487.pdf


Agro
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I see a russian shop hosts their datasheet:
https://e-neon.ru/catalog_files/pdf2/ds%20rxi002a%20v1%20060719.pdf
The item doesn’t seem to be available in the shop though. So maybe they hit the market at some point…

Agro
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And that last lens is indeed interesting. Though it sacrifices some frontal area. And need a windown in the front to get waterproofing (which reduces efficiency by enother 1% or so). Too bad the paper doesn’t describe it better….

kikkoman
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kikkoman wrote:
I’ve seen this (middle) style before

Here

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Wow, thanks for the link.

I remember seeing LL datasheets before but never got interested in their lenses. But they seem to have many ultra-compact lenses available:
https://www.ledlink-optics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-Commercia...

For example:
LL01CR-CTKxxL02-P is 49.5 × 7.8 mm designed to produce narrow (10 degree) beam with 3535 LEDs. Can’t find a datasheet for it though.
21700 thrower with 52 mm head and 100 mm length?

Or V-Cut LL01CR-DAWxxL52, smooth beam thrower lens (how does it compare to OP?), 45 × 10.85 mm.

LouieAtienza
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Looking for a source for lens type optics for large COBs (over 22mm dia. LES). Aside from reflectors, everything I see is for 19mm and under.

kikkoman
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@Agro
You have to replace “xx” in the part number with the angle, in this case 10, then you (or google) will find it —> https://www.ledlink-optics.com/upload/product2led_light/23_1201805310334...

You can have a look at the LPI patents if you want the gory details. Or this, it’s a bit easier to read. I have also found their book “Nonimaging Optics”, very interesting but so complex that I can’t even scratch the surface.
Looks like these things were a bit of a byproduct of researching solar concentrators for multi-junction cells.

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I’ve always been partial to Ledil lenses since they had numerous choices for 35mm optics for single or multiple LEDs. The Cute-3 S and GT4-XP-S paired nicely with 32mm triple and quad mcocb’s.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Agro
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Agro wrote:
21700 thrower with 52 mm head and 100 mm length?

Or soda can thrower with 52 mm head and 90 mm length? Smile

kikkoman wrote:
@Agro
You have to replace “xx” in the part number with the angle, in this case 10, then you (or google) will find it —> https://www.ledlink-optics.com/upload/product2led_light/23_1201805310334...

I tried that but failed to find anything. Thanks!
Key takeaways:
  • LED opening is 7.54 mm so basically any LED, even XHP70.2 should fit (XHP70.2 diagonal is larger but only the dome enters the lens cavity).
  • The bottom is patterned, so it’s not a pure throw design, they do some beam mixing as well
  • That’s a Fresnel TIR at a portion of the bottom Smile
  • Flat round front, nothing that would make mounting harder
  • They list it as high efficiency but fail to provide any efficiency numbers (except for the raw plastic that they use (polycarbonate))
  • Performance is specified only for some COB so I won’t predict how well it collimates.
  • Beam shape: spot with barely any spill. Looks very good to me.

kikkoman wrote:
You can have a look at the LPI patents if you want the gory details. Or this, it’s a bit easier to read. I have also found their book “Nonimaging Optics”, very interesting but so complex that I can’t even scratch the surface.
Looks like these things were a bit of a byproduct of researching solar concentrators for multi-junction cells.

I’ve seen that pdf before. But not the book. $20 for a pdf. With such non-recommendation I’ll skip it for now but maybe one day…. Smile
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LouieAtienza wrote:
Looking for a source for lens type optics for large COBs (over 22mm dia. LES). Aside from reflectors, everything I see is for 19mm and under.

LedLink:
LL01ED-ASAxxL06-P, LL01CT-APGxxL06-M2 are up to 26.5
LL01ED-ABXxxL06, LL01CR-BAYxxL06 are up to 24.2
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I intended to write about Fresnelized TIRs for a while…

A simple TIR lens guides light on 2 paths:
The light emitted forward is refracted as it enters the lens and again as it leaves it.
The light emitted sideways is refracted, TIR-reflected and refracted again.

It is possible to fold one or more surfaces to reduce height. Some call this TIR-R, some Fresnel-TIRs.

Here’s a one-time folded Kingbrite KB-H43-3-XP

Four-time folded Ilenstech ILENS508-COB90-10-H

You don’t have to fold the sides, you can fold the front instead like Ilenstech ILENS576-COB69-12-H

Or you can fold the back like Darkoo DK4304-XP-G

Here’s a good paper that generalizes the concept:
https://www.orafol.com/tl_files/EnergyUSA/papers/LED-Source-Modeling-for...
And some more papers / articles:
http://www.lpi-llc.com/Papers/PlasticOptics.pdf
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijp/2012/630692/
http://article.sciencepublishinggroup.com/html/10.11648.j.ijepe.20160502...

Note that Ledil makes Fresnel TIRs too:
https://www.ledil.com/product-landing/single-lenses/OLIVIA/
https://www.ledil.com/product-landing/single-lenses/WINNIE/

I think I’ve seen some Led Lenser that had the outer front folded though I can’t find it now.

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Agro wrote:
LouieAtienza wrote:
Looking for a source for lens type optics for large COBs (over 22mm dia. LES). Aside from reflectors, everything I see is for 19mm and under.
LedLink: LL01ED-ASAxxL06-P, LL01CT-APGxxL06-M2 are up to 26.5 LL01ED-ABXxxL06, LL01CR-BAYxxL06 are up to 24.2

Thanks… that’ll work for one, though still liking for something for over 30mm dia. COB

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LouieAtienza
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Agro wrote:
This one is up to 30 mm: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-power-cob-led-lens-with_6082...

Yes, great.. though I don’t have a need for 200 (MOQ)… trying to find a distributor stateside, hopefully…

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You can contact them. Maybe they’ll sell fewer.

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Louie, not sure if that’s interesting for you but there’s also Ledil Stella – a silicone lens family for 30 mm LES. Over 30 mm I also see only reflectors.

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Agro wrote:
Louie, not sure if that’s interesting for you but there’s also Ledil Stella – a silicone lens family for 30 mm LES. Over 30 mm I also see only reflectors.

I dis find a seller on Alibaba that has 30mm glass COB TIRs and aluminum housing… Will check out those LEDIL lenses too…

kikkoman
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Interesting diffuser in a small Verbatim bulb. This sits on a small Cree CXA COB. Old & inefficient (65lm/W), but it was only 1.40 so I bought it.
I’ll have to take pictures but it’s a very nice and even “beam”. Now if there’s a way to fit something like this on top of a 1” flashlight…

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This is one of the biggest TIRs, 75mm
It’s only been tested with COBs up to 23mm but the LED opening seems much bigger than that.
http://www.fraen.com/product/fnl-n1-75-hb/
http://www.fraen.com/product/fnl-n1-75-r-copy-14/

Only problem is that when using a TIR with a large LES LED then the angle of incidence varies a lot, which may cause light leakage since total internal reflection only works at large incidence angles.

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Auer makes a 110mm hybrid reflector but only takes max 9mm dia. COB.

I found a manufacturer on Alibaba that makes 100mm TIRs for COBs up to 30mm in 10, 15, and 30 deg. FWHM.

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Khatod Cosmo is another family of lenses that employs Fresnel TIRs.

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There’s one zoomie construction that I haven’t seen on a flashlight yet but found 3 lens makers that do it:
Moving lenslet array based.

Near the LED there’s a fixed TIR. The TIR has a lenslet array at the front face.
In front of the TIR there’s another lens. Its back is the exact negative of the TIR’s lenslet array; the front may be flat or refract the light in other ways.

When both lenses are very close (pretty much touching each other) – the lenslet array doesn’t do much, it’s almost like a regular TIR.
When they move out – the beam gets wider.

Pros:

  • fair efficiency, TIR capctures all the LED light
  • no need to put LED on a pole
  • easy to do fair waterproofing: seal at the TIR. Beam will be bad under water but submersion won’t cause damage.
  • short zooming movement

Cons:

  • current implementations don’t have AR coating which hurts efficiency
  • lenses need to be well aligned
  • can throw OK but never as well as a single TIR

Makers:

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Polymer Optics makes zoomable TIRs even a 7-up version….

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Indeed. I was interested in it a lot some time ago but stopped caring because beam shape when zoomed out.

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They have a really cool color mixing TIR with a spot beam…

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As well as 7-up XHP50.2 lenses. Hint! Hint! Wink

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I said I didn’t expect good beam shape from multi-led Fresnel lenses.
Now I see that Khatod makes PL1172, a 90 mm 9-up:
http://www.khatod.com/EN/product-1010/Fresnel-Lenses-for-Power-LEDs—Autofocus-Lenses.html
Beam actually looks OK except that flood is not spotless it’s more like a reflector than like aspheric.

Here I see a reference to PL1175 – a 50 mm triple Fresnel but I fail to find anything more about it.

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I can’t figure out how does this reflector work:

Where do I put the COB?

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Agro wrote:
I can’t figure out how does this reflector work:

Where do I put the COB?

The description states PC with aluminum coating… I can only postulate that the center is not coated; helping to effect the large beam angle. And it’s a HUGE angle…

That said, out of curiosity I requested a sample…

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LouieAtienza wrote:
Agro wrote:
I can’t figure out how does this reflector work:

Where do I put the COB?

The description states PC with aluminum coating… I can only postulate that the center is not coated; helping to effect the large beam angle. And it’s a HUGE angle…

That said, out of curiosity I requested a sample…


Smile

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