New WildTrail (former LuckSun) BLF-D80v2 Sale is open.

1228 posts / 0 new
Last post
contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 2922
Location: US

I’m pretty sure the different Bistro versions are just hardware related to how it handles the timing of button presses and stuff. I don’t believe it will make any difference to the end user as far as the user interface goes.

everydaysurvivalgear
everydaysurvivalgear's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 07/31/2015 - 10:25
Posts: 3547
Location: sydney australia (GMT+10)

I think both version will perform fairly similiar shouldn’t be much of a difference between the XPL-HI and SST40.

cabfrank
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2010 - 17:25
Posts: 2980
Location: healdsburg, california usa earth

Do you mean throw? In lumens the SST is spec’d a lot brighter.

everydaysurvivalgear
everydaysurvivalgear's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 07/31/2015 - 10:25
Posts: 3547
Location: sydney australia (GMT+10)
cabfrank wrote:
Do you mean throw? In lumens the SST is spec’d a lot brighter.

Yea sorry in throw they should be similiar i think.

TheOnlyDocc
TheOnlyDocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2015 - 05:17
Posts: 949
Location: Mönchengladbach /Germany

Sorry guys for answering so late but some personal stuff came up today. Thanks to Lux-Perpetua for jumping in. And i can not say more than he already said about the questions. I talked with Jacky about the option to measure the output. . . but his boss is still not sure if its profitable for him to make their own lights.
If we can make it a success he will be willing to spend more and then we maybe get the infos. But thats something we can discuss if this is going well.
I hope Lexel will answere a few more questions about his driver so we can get everything ready. The factory is working on the D80 right now in night shift to get everything ready for sale. And if everything goes well they could be ready in 4-5 days.
If i can not get the driver information soon the manual has to be printed without them. Not what i would like to do but they also can not send the light out without a manual.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 18 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20608
Location: Heart of Texas

The original FET driver with Bistro showed a glitch when going high power, like a triple or quad or even the more power hungry SST40 ( which can go over 9A). The driver would not hit Turbo but instead would bump down to level one. I believe the OTSM is a revision that corrects this problem for error free use under high current draw. I seem to remember this but could be wrong.

Many of my early Bistro triples and quads in the X6 had this issue and there were a few ways to address it on the original boards, some quite tedious. This, fortunately, should no longer be a problem after Del and possibly Lexel used oscilloscopes to identify the problem and create revisions to the board design.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 36 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5663
Location: Germany

The firmware is mostly untouched from v1.7.1 flintrock

Modegroup is 4 with Turbo in the regular mode loop, while normal Bistro has MG12 with hidden turbo (long press from Moon, which also works in MG4)

TheOnlyDocc
TheOnlyDocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2015 - 05:17
Posts: 949
Location: Mönchengladbach /Germany

Lexel can you provide a few more infos abou the driver?
1.Polarity Protection Yes or No
2. Overtemp protection and at what temp Or does it use stepdown (timecontrolled and when yes after how many seconds)
3. LVP at what voltage
4. Driver Name FET+5+1?
5. Bistro UI chart 100% usable for Bistro OTSM?

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 18 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20608
Location: Heart of Texas

Makes Bistro sound plain and simple, when in fact it’s far from that…

OTSM as explained by Flintrock himself HERE

And TK’s Bistro Manual… the “plain” Bistro

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 18 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20608
Location: Heart of Texas

The Bistro normal UI is copied from a listing made by CRX, thanks S. Smile

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 36 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5663
Location: Germany
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
Lexel can you provide a few more infos abou the driver? 1.Polarity Protection Yes or No 2. Overtemp protection and at what temp Or does it use stepdown (timecontrolled and when yes after how many seconds) 3. LVP at what voltage 4. Driver Name FET+5+1? 5. Bistro UI chart 100% usable for Bistro OTSM?

1. Its standard Bistro driver so yes
2. standard Bistro Temp setup
3. 2.7V Bistro standard
4. I count 6 AMCs total and see a FET
5. standard Bistro with triple v1.3 plus

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 1855
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Lexel wrote:
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
Lexel can you provide a few more infos abou the driver? 1.Polarity Protection Yes or No 2. Overtemp protection and at what temp Or does it use stepdown (timecontrolled and when yes after how many seconds) 3. LVP at what voltage 4. Driver Name FET+5+1? 5. Bistro UI chart 100% usable for Bistro OTSM?
1. Its standard Bistro driver so yes 2. standard Bistro Temp setup 3. 2.7V Bistro standard 4. I count 6 AMCs total and see a FET 5. standard Bistro with triple v1.3 plus

Lexel,

I'm grateful for your support in this project and I think I can speak on behalf of the entire BLF/TLF that we all greatly appreciate your contribution. However, it would be much more helpful if you gave us some more detailed answers than the ones we see above. Please keep in mind that not only LuckySun's success is at stake but also every buyer's satisfaction with the BLF D80 V2. We need to get the manual finished by yesterday, so we are a bit in a hurry. Therefore, please have a look onto the following questions and reply as distinct as you can once again:

  1. Does this very driver has overheat protection?
  2. If so, at what temperature? (what is "standard bistro temp setup"?)
  3. Is this driver a FET+6 or a FET+5+1 driver? Do all AMCs run on only one channel?
  4. In terms of the UI and usability: Is there any difference between Bistro and Bistro OTSM and if so, is the UI chart (see some posts above) affected, so that we cannot use the Bistro chart for this flashlight?
  5. Will the temperature calibration (i.a.w. with the manual Dale kindly posted above) also work with Bistro OTSM?

Thank you very much!

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 36 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5663
Location: Germany

1.+2.
- the driver has Bistro temp sensing, needs to be calibrated by user, there is a default of like 50°C but the MCUs spread up to +/-20°C

3.
-

Quote:
5. standard Bistro with triple v1.3 plus

—> 5+1

4.
Mode groups:

Quote:
5. standard Bistro with triple v1.3 plus

- TA made those as far as I know

If I say Bistro standard it means it’s all in the topics related to the firmware
The only difference to TA or OTSM is default Mode group is set to 4

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 1855
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Jacky has already printed the last draft version. So that's the version you will get along with your flashlight. I have supplemented the latest information Lexel provided yesterday and created a final version of the manual. This one will probably be shown on LS's website on AliExpress. You can also download it for more convenience from my Google Drive Sharepoint.

BLF D80 V2 Manual (English only)

d_t_a
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 08/04/2017 - 23:58
Posts: 1579
Location: Manila, Philippines
Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Jacky has already printed the last draft version. So that’s the version you will get along with your flashlight. I have supplemented the latest information Lexel provided yesterday and created a final version of the manual. This one will probably be shown on LS’s website on AliExpress. You can also download it for more convenience from my Google Drive Sharepoint.


BLF D80 V2 Manual (English only)

Hi Lux-Perpetua, appreciate your efforts in writing this Wildtrail D80v2 manual.

In the last part, is this a typo? “B duilding” or is that “B Building”?

Quote:
CHENGXIN TECHNOLOGY CO. LTD. B duilding, Fuda Industrial Park, Hengkeng Avenue, Baoan District, Shenzhen City, Guangdong Provice, China

~~~~~~

I asked about the battery previously, but am not sure if there’s a possible answer — regarding the SST40 version, it says not to use >10A high-drain 18650s.
Does that mean, using a fully-charged high-drain battery (eg. 30Q or VTC6) will definitely burn out the LED when going to Turbo mode?

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 18 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20608
Location: Heart of Texas

I’ve been running SST-40’s on FET lights since the 40 became available, using the hottest cells I can find. Have yet to blow an emitter but have seen them draw over 9A regularly. Doubt you’ll have to worry about which cell to use…

TheOnlyDocc
TheOnlyDocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2015 - 05:17
Posts: 949
Location: Mönchengladbach /Germany

Like DB Custom said. Most SST-40 can even handle 9A. The led should survive even a high drain cell. They tested with a fully charged 30Q. We tried to limit the current arround 7A with the 30Q.
But its a commercial sold light and by recomending to not use a high drain battery gives them a bit more safety.
For the SST-40 version they are not using the spring bypass to keep the current down. And not using a high drain battery should keep the current also in a save reagion.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 1855
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

d_t_a wrote:
Hi Lux-Perpetua, appreciate your efforts in writing this Wildtrail D80v2 manual. In the last part, is this a typo? "B duilding" or is that "B Building"?
Quote:
CHENGXIN TECHNOLOGY CO. LTD. B duilding, Fuda Industrial Park, Hengkeng Avenue, Baoan District, Shenzhen City, Guangdong Provice, China

I must confess I do not have any idea if this strange look comes from a typo by Jacky or if it is really meant to be "B duilding". I took the address "as is" from Jacky's original first draft of the manual. As we had to get everything sorted so quickly, especially about the specs, there was no time to have it checked and possibly rectified. Sorry for that. Sad

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10178
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
I sended him the updated Anduril cheat sheet but it is still not clear to them.

The full diagram can be a little intimidating, since there’s a lot of stuff in it. I’ve been meaning to make a tutorial which starts with the basics and then expands to the other features gradually, to help people understand that the core usage is very simple. The text of the tutorial is already half-written, but it’ll take a while to make all the images needed.

DB Custom wrote:
Crescendo never grew on me, seemed difficult to master for me.

Yeah, it needs some changes to make it more intuitive. And even then, I find it’s still awkward. Ramping just doesn’t work very well with a power-disconnecting tail clicky. So on most of my tail-clicky lights, I still use some of my oldest firmwares… S7 and Cypreus. I like them more than my newer and more general-purpose interfaces.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10178
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Lux-Perpetua wrote:
is there any big difference between the original BISTRO UI and BISTRO OTSM?

There is no firmware called Bistro OTSM. It appears to be a customized version of Flintrock’s Bistro HD.

As for differences, the names make it seem like the two are very similar, since it’s just “Bistro” and “Bistro HD”. But they only actually share a few lines of code. If I understand correctly, Flintrock tried to make the user interface very close to the original, but the underlying code differences are so large that it would be a good idea to test the firmware very thoroughly on a prototype of the light.

I haven’t really used Bistro HD much, since it never really worked correctly on any drivers I tried, but I can at least say I already see at least one UI difference between the diagram and what’s documented in Flintrock’s thread. Menu items 3 and 4 are swapped. It’s also likely that the number and details of the mode groups are different, and the manual really should have a list of what the mode groups are.

d_t_a wrote:
I have some questions:

1) What’s the difference between Bistro and Bistro OTSM?

(I know the BLF X5/X6v2 aka Astrolux S2/S3, CPF Italia Cometa and Mateminco X6S use Bistro, but are there already other commercially available flashlights that use “Bistro OTSM”?)

The difference is about 4000 to 7000 lines of code, depending on which parts are measured. For reference, the original Bistro is only about 1000 lines total. So it’s probably easier to list what they have in common, instead of what’s different: They share a similar user interface, and a few scattered stanzas of code.

As far as I’m aware, Bistro HD has only been used by a few people. This light will be the first time it has been used at a larger scale.

About OTC (original) vs OTSM (HD), the difference is:

  • OTC (Off Time Capacitor) measures the voltage of a capacitor to determine how long the button was pressed. The driver fully shuts off at each button press, and boots fresh each time the light turns on. The button timing may vary with temperature though, since this uses the analog decay rate of the hardware as a way to measure time. Requires a bleeder resistor when a lighted tailcap is attached.
  • OTSM (Off Time Sleep Mode) keeps the driver running for a few seconds during each button press, using the control chip’s internal timer to measure time. When power is restored, it continues from where it left off, without rebooting. Timing is much more consistent, but the chance of bugs increases since the driver doesn’t reset its state as often.
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
i still need a link to the Code Lexel used

Yes, this is required by the license. The exact code shipped on the light needs to be provided.

Lexel wrote:
The firmware is mostly untouched from v1.7.1 flintrock

“Mostly untouched” means it’s modified, and counts as a derivative version. GPLv3 sections 5 and 6 apply, “Conveying Modified Source Versions” and “Conveying Non-Source Forms”. Ideally, the license terms would be resolved in the manual, so the retailers would not have to care about the license. If the manual doesn’t include the right information though, retailers will have to carry the relevant information on their product pages.

Lexel wrote:
Its standard Bistro driver … standard Bistro Temp setup … 2.7V Bistro standard … standard Bistro with triple …

But it’s not standard Bistro, not a standard Bistro driver, etc. It’s different hardware with different firmware.

Lexel wrote:
it’s all in the topics related to the firmware

The information may be in other threads somewhere, but it’s not here. The people running the project need exact, specific details… not a suggestion to look it up themselves and make guesses about which information is relevant.

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 1855
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Lux-Perpetua wrote:

d_t_a wrote:
Hi Lux-Perpetua, appreciate your efforts in writing this Wildtrail D80v2 manual. In the last part, is this a typo? "B duilding" or is that "B Building"?
Quote:
CHENGXIN TECHNOLOGY CO. LTD. B duilding, Fuda Industrial Park, Hengkeng Avenue, Baoan District, Shenzhen City, Guangdong Provice, China

I must confess I do not have any idea if this strange look comes from a typo by Jacky or if it is really meant to be "B duilding". I took the address "as is" from Jacky's original first draft of the manual. As we had to get everything sorted so quickly, especially about the specs, there was no time to have it checked and possibly rectified. Sorry for that. Sad

TheOnlyDocc and Jacky were talking about the odd looking address but it's correct as it is shown in the manual. So, no corrections necessary.

Some more news I'm glad to tell you: I was also told that Jacky will print and supply the final version of the manual with the D80 V2.

TheOnlyDocc
TheOnlyDocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2015 - 05:17
Posts: 949
Location: Mönchengladbach /Germany

Thanks Toykeeper for clearing some things up. I wanted Bistro in the first place because it is a proven version. Now i can only hope that everything goes well.
To everybody on the no ano list. Please check your mails. If you are on the list but have not get a message from me please contact me.

And for everybody else. Jacky told me that the sale will start this weekend. I have no exact date or time. But i was told Saturday or Sunday.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

Paul321
Paul321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 6 hours ago
Joined: 03/07/2015 - 09:44
Posts: 700
Location: Hawleyville, USA

Yay, preparing my wallet!

Paul-

Hoosh
Hoosh's picture
Online
Last seen: 4 min 30 sec ago
Joined: 08/17/2015 - 21:15
Posts: 89

Perhaps a stupid question so very late in the game, but do we have any known runtimes available for this light with either emitter? I’ve looked at the final manual and see nothing there…

Also, in general, should the XP-L HI run “cooler” than the SST 40 given the less amp draw?

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 18 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20608
Location: Heart of Texas

Run time is of course a factor of the amp draw vs the capacity of the cell you put in. If the SST-40 is pulling 7A and you use a 3500mAh cell then you can expect, in theory, about 30 minutes. It will be different as the amp draw will drop as the cell dies so it will stretch out more than the theoretical allows for.

Cool running is again dependent on the emitter and amp draw, is the emitter at it’s maximum and how does it deal with that? The SST-40 does tend to produce some heat up at it’s max of 9A or a bit more, so keeping it down to 7A should help alleviate some of the heat issues. I’d expect the two emitters, in this case, to be fairly similar in heat production. We’ll see pretty soon hopefully. Smile

cabfrank
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2010 - 17:25
Posts: 2980
Location: healdsburg, california usa earth

Almost 20,000 Dale! Wow.

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7698
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

TheOnlyDocc wrote:
Thanks Toykeeper for clearing some things up. I wanted Bistro in the first place because it is a proven version. Now i can only hope that everything goes well.
To everybody on the no ano list. Please check your mails. If you are on the list but have not get a message from me please contact me.

And for everybody else. Jacky told me that the sale will start this weekend. I have no exact date or time. But i was told Saturday or Sunday.


I can’t believe there aren’t more people celebrating this news! Party I’m looking forward to getting mine!

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

cabfrank
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2010 - 17:25
Posts: 2980
Location: healdsburg, california usa earth

I really want this, and am definitely very excited. My wallet, less so.

Nachtfeuerzeug
Nachtfeuerzeug's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 08/31/2013 - 16:10
Posts: 490

Me too! Especially since the tint is 4800K v's previous predictions. 

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 16560
Location: Amsterdam

I’m a bit worried about the firmware, but I sure look forward to buying one this weekend.

Pages