New WildTrail (former LuckSun) BLF-D80v2 Sale is open.

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Rusty Joe
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Use the SST-20

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Spartan
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TheOnlyDocc wrote:
@Spartan You forgetting that most of the smaller Flashlight companies do not have their own CNCs…. they go with a design to a company that makes metall parts and order the parts. Same with drivers, reflectors. . . . So making a prototype, test it make changes, new prototype . . . . is not a fast thing. And not cheap because you are asking a company usually making 500-1000pcs min at a time to make you 1 or 2 prototypes than you make changes and ask again for 1 or 2 prototypes . . . Even if you go with 3 different versions and asked them to make them at once. You pay a lot of extra money. Even Thorfire did not make the Host themself. If i remember right (Sofirn made the lights back then). If they see a huge GB interest lists (like Q8, BLF-GT, FW3A. . . ) they spend the money. But i can understand if they do not want to spend the funds. I sure would like to see such tests! If someone can implement a stepped design instead of the tapered section (my cousin did) i could send it to LS. I tryed to do it on my tablet but it looks crappy. And i do not have a laptop with me in hospital. I would also prefer a stepped design because it makes it easyer to mod the head with spacers (for tripple or quad optics). But i need help to change the drawing. Or can someone name a good app for android so i can give it another try myself.

Agree and disagree.

It is a one time cost that has to be made. The entire product line could benefit from getting another, let’s say, 10% efficiency in handling heat.

Sofirn is one company that can easily do it. But do they?

So yes, they SHOULD be testing and improving, but then, short sighted companies see no profit in that. And in some companies, that carries into their quality control.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

WTF
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Sounds like they are sticking with an 18650 cell and keeping the shallow driver pocket.

I don’t know why they are bothering to update this light, they’re not really improving anything. Its just the old light with a driver change, and an odd size so no one will use it for a host.

I’m sure Convoy will like this news, the C8 and M1 are proven products that have this part of the market mostly covered. The new version of the S2+ with the 21700 body is almost ready and Sofirn can’t be too far behind. Its going to be tough for Lucky Sun to sell the same old same old with all the shiny new stuff around.

TheOnlyDocc
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@Lexel
I thought they wanted to go with a standart size 17mm driver. They said they have max 19,5mm but why would they use it (or do you need the extra space on the driver board)? Makes later modding more difficult.

Here the last drawings. Added less material on the inside and removed a little bit on on the lower finns.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

djozz
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The grove above the 3rd fin from the bottom should not be deepened, it blocks the heat path to the top fins.

Spartan
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Why is the material added in box sections? Why not machine it to match the lens? And maximize material for heat transfer?

Why not contact the lens? Maybe a tad more time to make the surface smoother. After all, it’s machining aluminum, not 316 or grade 5 titanium.

What am I missing?

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TheOnlyDocc
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I have seen what you were refering to djozz. Now it should be better.
@Spartan
Most people and LS fear that the head is becomming to heavy. So we reduced the mass a bit. But we still have improved the heatpath.
I only hope that Lexel is not going for a 19,5mm driver. This would make later modding more complicated. I hope they will end up with a 17mm driver.

Here the drawing with the small change

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

djozz
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Yep, that helps.

robo819
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DavidEF wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
I’d rather have a Osram “White Flat” emitter (or the new Boost HX, if available) and a decent linear driver with max output tuned to best performance of the emitter. Make the head a tiny bit longer, so the reflector can be a bit deeper. Get the focus right for best throw (obviously). Don’t change the battery size. Keep the 18650. Good idea to use the Blue™ springs. Wink

Yes, a modern emitter with a lower Vf (seems to be the trend), together with a linear driver, even just an inexpensive stack of 7135s, would be better.

Lower Vf. meaning more consistent and efficient performance as the cell droops in real-world use, efficiency actually improving as the cell discharges and the LED Vf. vs cell Voltage transfer characteristic reaches optimum. Unlike FET drivers.

Reflector redesign and fine tuning essential to match emitters. This one is very finnicky to get right if you try a different LED, without obvious beam artefacts. It is already struggling to achieve balance of throw vs. spill, being so shallow.

Remember throw comes only from the reflector and the sideways projection of the LED. The spill is what shoots out of the front of the LED, missing the reflector entirely. Therefore precise LED characteristics will be very important.

A deeper wide reflector makes this much easier. And better. But that would not be a D80.


Well, I was just asking for it to be a bit deeper. Don’t change the aesthetic too much, as others have said. I was never a fan of the Aesthetic of the D80, but I will probably buy it if they end up using the “White Flat” or the Boost HX emitters. I want a super-throwy hand-size light just to impress people with. I’m considering getting a GT Mini and/or Micro, but I’d be happier with one of these Osram emitters, perfectly focused in a well-designed reflector. Cash

I like my D80’s and with some simple tweaks they can do some serious throw for their size, as has been discussed already. Here is the 2 that I got from the GB , with one being totally stock and the other one I modded with FET driver / XPL-HI 1A emitter (on Noctigon) , spring bypasses and did just a little bit of sanding on the bottom of the reflector and centering ring to get the focus dialed in.

Original D80 Left / Modded right,,,,,,,,,

Original D80 175 yards……..

Modded D80 175 yards……….

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Tom Tom
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Keeping this short and and sweet due to continuing frustration with BLF database problems.

If this gets through:

Try 5.

Nothing much wrong with the head as-is. Except for the driver diameter. Make it 17mm please.

Finning is over-rated and contributes little in a torch of this size, IMO. Thermal mass more useful for extending turbo operation,

Better to improve the thermal path to the tube, then hand, on mine it barely hangs on by two threads. Make that three or more and it will be improved. This should improve steady state operation i.e. allow higher continuous output without over heating.

Screw down the MCPCB to the shelf for decent thermal contact instead of just relying on bezel/oring/reflector/centring ring stack to apply pressure (which it doesn’t). I’d say re-engineer all that properly, but I doubt that’s under consideration.

Reduce the LED hole in the reflector to XPL size and apply light orange peel to the flat portion, and a little way into the parabola to smooth the worst of the beam artefacts when trying alternative LEDs.

This short reflector is clever because the parabolic part (which generates the throw) is truncated to keep it short. It behaves like a deeper reflector, except for the wide spill.

An old Bistro driver is a safe inexpensive choice, but has limited firmware modding potential if using Attiny 25 and doesn’t move this forwards. Something like DEL’s FW3A driver with two banks of 7135 would be much more interesting to me, if the firmware could adapted for clickie operation instead of e-switch.

If also available (in 17mm) as a spare part I would have an immediate use for ten or more, to bring older torches up to date. This could be a steady seller, obsoleting Banggoods old imperfect offerings which are still the only easily available options for many of us.

Lexel
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start for driver, maybe some changes

Tom Tom
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Looking nice Lexel. 7135 ×1 and X5. Sorry for doubting. Bistro is still a nice firmware and suits my preference for (relative) simplicity. Configure once, then just use.

I’d buy lots of these (in 17mm Wink )

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I know 19.5mm is a stange size, I hoped for 20mm, but LS seems to max. that size without changes on the battery tube
but for Mods 17mm is for buck- or boostdrivers not ideal

TheOnlyDocc
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I want to ask something about the Threads.
The old D80 has a very fine thread. You have to screw the tailcap really on. Not 1 or 2 turns. Would it be interesting to ask for something like this?

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

Lexel
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they sent me dxf files so its now 19.2 diameter

Spartan
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TheOnlyDocc wrote:
I have seen what you were refering to djozz. Now it should be better. @Spartan Most people and LS fear that the head is becomming to heavy. So we reduced the mass a bit. But we still have improved the heatpath.

Still doesn’t make sense not to machine it to match the lens. The weight addition will be negligible. The machining time will be negligible. It’s a CNC, not a knee mill and the old step-and-cut.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

SKV89
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Spartan wrote:
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
I have seen what you were refering to djozz. Now it should be better. @Spartan Most people and LS fear that the head is becomming to heavy. So we reduced the mass a bit. But we still have improved the heatpath.

Still doesn’t make sense not to machine it to match the lens. The weight addition will be negligible. The machining time will be negligible. It’s a CNC, not a knee mill and the old step-and-cut.

Thumbs Up Completely agree. Something of this size with aluminum material cannot get too heavy.
DavidEF
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SKV89 wrote:
Spartan wrote:
TheOnlyDocc wrote:
I have seen what you were refering to djozz. Now it should be better. @Spartan Most people and LS fear that the head is becomming to heavy. So we reduced the mass a bit. But we still have improved the heatpath.

Still doesn’t make sense not to machine it to match the lens. The weight addition will be negligible. The machining time will be negligible. It’s a CNC, not a knee mill and the old step-and-cut.

Thumbs Up Completely agree. Something of this size with aluminum material cannot get too heavy.
The step-cut not only reduces the weight (even if just a little). It also should be sized to make a shelf for adding a spacer and optic for triples, quads, etc.

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Tom Tom
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Lexel wrote:
they sent me dxf files so its now 19.2 diameter !{width:70%}http://www.metronixlaser.de/bilder/flashlight/19.2mm_D80.png!

Weirder and weirder. Sounds like they really don’t want to do it with conventional dimensions. Or whoever is designing the head is inexperienced in the conventions, just trying to make it look OK on the CAD screen without considering the implications.

Not very mod-friendly, nor desirable as a host.

Suggestion: lay it out for 17mm, just add more ground ring around the edge to fit this thing, however it eventually turns out. Be it 19.2mm, or 20, or whatever, routed out to suit.

I like the hole in the middle, allows head spring bypass straight to LED + wire, in case they use an unsatisfactory spring. I would prefer that they retain the stud instead, it is electrically and mechanically superior to any spring.

Then please sell me some routed out to 17mm.

TheOnlyDocc
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Please do not bash on LS when it is not justified! They are hearing us and they are asking about things we discuss here.
The max driver size now is 19,2mm limited by the tube diameter. So it would be possible to go with 17-19,2mm for the driver (nothing is set in stone for now).
But they asked what people want and what makes sense. And to change the driver to 20mm they would have to make a new tube (slightly bigger).
We are talking about it and they check if it is possible and what it would cost. Also i asked if we could upgrade the threads.
Now they use a very fine one. Like most newer and better flashlights it would be nice to go with square threads. Less wear and less prone to damage if something like dirt comes on the threads.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

Tom Tom
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The fine thread on the tail does not help with the loosening of the RH threaded switch PCB retaining ring, too easy to apply a great deal of pressure/friction at this interface. A coarser square-cut thread would be great. An LH threaded ring is also desirable, so that it tightens instead of loosening when the tail cap is removed.

This problem can happen straight away, or after a period of actual use. Never knowing whether the tail assembly is going to come apart, or just come loose and intermittent, each time you change the cell is not confidence-inspiring. My bodge was to thread-lock it together.

Masses of discussion on the original thread, maybe read it completely, in case there are some lessons to be learned there that may have been forgotten or never addressed.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/36983

Not bashing LS, but I have struggled with the non-standard driver cavity on mine. having had to file down an adapter PCB, and the driver, just to fit a 17mm one to replace the original. Tedious. Just saying.

One of these:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1138202

Alternative would have been to solder copper wire around the edge of the driver to expand it, but that would have been mechanically and electrically poor.

Also be aware that the driver cavity is fully anodised, in fact everything is, except for the faces of the tube. There is no current path to the driver or tube, it is reliant on contact through the driver retaining ring. No problem, it works well as long as the retaining ring makes a good contact with the driver ground ring. But there are quite a few such critical interfaces in series in this torch, relying on perfect contact at each.

Other torches do things differently, e.g. masking off anodising to ensure solid contact through the tail/tube/head for the important -ve cell current path.

Lexel
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They are still in the design process, so dont overshoot if something is not right

Almost every light depends on the retaining ring for proper contact to the battery tube,
even if threads and driver resting ring are not anodized on the head the contact is not very reliable if retaining ring gets loose

using the head and tailcap retaining ring as direct contact needs for sure threads that are not in the same clockwise direction,
of course other lights have the tube always rest on an aluminum rim not the retaining rings itself are better because it eliminates the loosening problem

MtnDon
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Lexel wrote:
…..of course other lights have the tube always rest on an aluminum rim not the retaining rings itself are better because it eliminates the loosening problem

I never realized before that the tailcap of the D80 has the retaining ring contact the tube when it is tightened down, even though I have one. Thumbs Up I had a look and sure enough it does. Several other lights I looked inside have the tube contact a machined face in the cap. The retaining ring is smaller and does not contact the tube body at all.

It seems to me that if they really want to make an improved version of the D80 they should redesign the tailcap retaining ring. No wonder some manufacturers like to glue parts together. Sad

Then while thay are at it redesign the head to use a 17mm driver.

I like the feel and appearance of the D80, but the lights I use most have side switches which has moved my two D80’s to the closet queen shelf. Appearance was what made me desire the D80 in the first place.

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TheOnlyDocc
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One question.
If we go for max throw in a new D80, would it be interesting to check also for very narrow TIR optics?

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

everydaysurvivalgear
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I think the 20mm driver is a good option. Yes i mostly use 17mm drivers but the BLF driver fit in the old D80 fine because the retaining design is so wide it holds it good. I found the Sofirn drivers dont fit they are to small they are supposed to be 17mm but more like 16.4mm i think. When you are talking about a few mm difference for a driver it shouldn’t really matter. If its to big you can sand it down a few mm most times and if its to small use an adapter ring?

So fare the light looks awesome keep up the work!

Are you back at home TheOnlyDocc? Started modding the X6?

TheOnlyDocc
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No not jet. Today they did another CT scan. If the results are ok i can go home on Sunday. If not i have to stay another week. But i can not wait to sleeb in my own bed again (allone ) without anybody snoring the complete night Thumbs Up
The nurses think i am not right in my head Big Smile . I have my Vernier Caliper in my side cabinet and also the old D80.
And 2 times the week my neighbour visits and brings me all the nice things that arrived for me. 80% flashlight related stuff

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

TheOnlyDocc
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So next week they will have a talk with the factory engineer.
There is a lot on the list
- Tailcap change so it can Tailstand
- Threads change to square more corse threads (and if possible double o-rings for better sealing)
- Changes to make space for 20mm driver (slightly bigger tube)
- Changes at the retaining rings to make sure they do not come loose (at the head possible LH threads or removing the outer lipp so the Aluminium makes contact)
- Internal changes of the head to help with heatpath and dissipation (thicker shelf, walls, deeper finns)
- New driver designt by Lexel with Bistro UI
- Upgraded reflector to get best throw
- Small adjustments on the front to get better sealing
- New springs (similar to the blue springs)
- Making sure unprotected and long protected batterys fit (tube length)

Have i forgotten anything?

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

MtnDon
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Sounds like a brand new flashlight

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SKV89
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If the tube needs to be bigger for 20mm driver, why not just make it 21700 or 20700 compatible.

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SKV89 wrote:
If the tube needs to be bigger for 20mm driver, why not just make it 21700 or 20700 compatible.

Agree for 21700

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