Emisar D18 introduction

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ToyKeeper
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komeko wrote:
M43 was also constructed in the same way and still crooked. I had to drill holes again and make new screw threads.

Right, I remember that now. That was weird. I don’t think that sort of thing is likely to be common though.

JasonWW wrote:
not everyone likes the yellow corona of the 70.2. You kinda get used to it, but it’s probably ugly compared directly to this Emisar light.

Yeah… it’s one of Cree’s new rainbow emitters. Someone on reddit posted a 70.2 beam shot recently:

… which is pretty much the entire reason why flashlights are using emitters like SST-20 and LH351D now instead of Cree.

SKV89 wrote:
Toykeeper, TA mentioned that there is an issue with active temperature regulation in Anduril for high output lights.

The issue TA ran into is something only TA has had. I’ve never seen it happen, and I’ve tried. More details are in another thread. All tests so far suggest the D18 doesn’t have any issues like that.

Agro
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Hank Wang wrote:
This is how the 3*18350 tube look in the 3D file, short and thick, what do you guys think?
!https://intl-outdoor.com/images/20190316103816.png!

I think it looks silly.
Would love to have one.
JasonWW
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Agro wrote:
Hank Wang wrote:
This is how the 3*18350 tube look in the 3D file, short and thick, what do you guys think?

I think it looks silly.
Would love to have one.

If you put a space after the final exclamation mark, the picture will show up. Wink
Nev
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Some might like the smaller battery tube but to me it sounds like having a sports car & taking the fuel tank off & replacing it with a petrol can.

SKV89
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Nev wrote:
Some might like the smaller battery tube but to me it sounds like having a sports car & taking the fuel tank off & replacing it with a petrol can.

Pocketable hotrod is what makes Emisar lights unique. You can get the MF01S, which also has 18 emitters, 4× 18650, should be higher output, more focused throw, better heat dissipation due to larger mass and more finning. But it is not pocketable.

Edit: Sorry I misread your post. I thought you wanted 3×21700 for some reason.

beastlykings
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I have concerns that 3×18650 can’t properly power this light, can someone tell me how 3×18350 are gonna do anything but get murdered by what is essentially a short circuit’s worth of current?

djozz
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The short tube makes me want this light, it is cute. Can we get light creeping out of the fins like in the picture? Party

But seriously, I think the short tube may only appeal to a bunch of flashoholics, but if there’s enough of them it may be worth making it.

JaredM
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IMO it’s the diameter here that limits the ‘pocketability’ of this light (and soda can lights in general). I personally don’t find 3×18350 interesting at all. Length here is not an issue (102mm!), and to have the same diameter and way less power available just doesn’t make much sense to me. YMMV. Also, those wishing for 21700 or 4×18650, lets all realize that the peak power that even TWO of the best 18650s can deliver will make a light this size hit thermal stepdown in a few minutes. Battery power is not a limitation. Also, anyone that may support the idea that that extra 33% runtime you get on lower modes is so valuable, I ask this question: when have you ever used a light in this category on lower modes (of which are achievable in much more pocketable form factors) long enough to deplete the batteries and require a change?

Hank,
I think you did a great job on this light. Proof of that (in my world) is that I was considering myself done with lights of this general type and I’m very likely to purchase one of these. I’m guaranteed to buy this with the availability of HiCRI very near or below the BBL at lower currents. The problem with 18x emitter configuration is that on any sane output level the Amps/LED is in a range that the newest hiCRI options have so much green shift. Turbo should be great though at a ballpark 3A each. Too bad it’ll be over so fast Crying

PS:
Considering this problem that I just mentioned, I’m thinking that the use of a multi-channel driver that turns LEDs off as you ramp down (for example FET runs all 18, 13×7135 runs 4, and 1×7135 runs one), effectively reducing the tint shift across the output range would be an interesting solution. Complex and bulky though I realize.. 2cents spent Beer

DB Custom
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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII LIKE IT! Big Smile

And in the gold color.

And with a short tube.

All schoolgirl giggles and grins with this one, great work Hank!

DB Custom
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Question?

Is it Frankendaleable?

Evil

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I think we have found out that EVERYTHING is Frankendaleable.

JaredM
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beastlykings wrote:
I have concerns that 3×18650 can’t properly power this light, can someone tell me how 3×18350 are gonna do anything but get murdered by what is essentially a short circuit’s worth of current?

Depending on the emitter Vf, full circuit resistance, and cells chosen, there is WAY more power available in 3×18650s than is used here. Lets say you pop in 3 Samsung 25S (0.03Ohm) cells and are running L2 flux bin SST20s. Knowing Emisar/Noctigon designs, resistance is pretty damn low, lets say 10mOhm this is the most sensitive variable and also the least informed. Rough calculations show 46.5A against these assumptions and approximations. Comparing against Maukkas output test and assuming 15% OTF losses, these numbers line up with output specs as well. 14000 OTF would require ~915 per emitter which requires about 2.6A each for a total of ~47A and ~150W. Battery pack wise, the cells are seeing ~16A draw a piece, which is easily handled by even 30Qs for short periods. Adding one more cell only increases total output by ~18W (12%) and decreases cell load to ~13A each. Lumens increase of say 10%.

Is 150W not enough power for this light? If not, does 168W pass? Is 16A the short circuit current of a high drain 18650? Does 10% more output (and heat) seem like an appropriate trade-off for a meaningful difference in diameter?

I think your concern is that each emitter isn’t maximally driven by only 3 cells. That is true. And here the exact point of the design. Getting very close to 100lm/W OTF is the main attraction to a 18x emitter light and something that should be appreciated for what it is. I think HANK balanced the design here very well. KUDOS Thumbs Up

DB Custom
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The Samsung 25S can supply 28 Amps to 17 emitters in my Ham’r. At that level it’s making, surprisingly enough, just over 14,000 lumens. Wink (Yes, one single 25S!)

JaredM
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DB Custom wrote:
The Samsung 25S can supply 28 Amps to 17 emitters in my Ham’r. At that level it’s making, surprisingly enough, just over 14,000 lumens. Wink (Yes, one single 25S!)

Plugging a single cell into the same calculation as above I got 27.31 amps. Probably luck that everything comes out that way. What emitters are in the Ham’r? Link to your build?

Geuzzz
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Great work Hank!

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Hank, how much will it weigh?

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ohbreeeezy
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Make a 26650 attachment!

Newlumen
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ohbreeeezy wrote:
Make a 26650 attachment!

Totally agree.. as lumen increase, bigger capacity are needed..

I have 15000 lights and 4 × 18650 doesn’t provide enough capacity.

BlueSwordM
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26650 would be absolutely monstrous. Way too large IMO.

What could be actually done is an 6×18650 extension, in parallel of course.

That will probably have more probability than the BLF Q8/Lantern extended tubes.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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Ok. Do whatever it takes. 18650 is old!

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How about 2× 21700 in a side-by-side configuration?

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JaredM wrote:
beastlykings wrote:
I have concerns that 3×18650 can’t properly power this light, can someone tell me how 3×18350 are gonna do anything but get murdered by what is essentially a short circuit’s worth of current?

Depending on the emitter Vf, full circuit resistance, and cells chosen, there is WAY more power available in 3×18650s than is used here. Lets say you pop in 3 Samsung 25S (0.03Ohm) cells and are running L2 flux bin SST20s. Knowing Emisar/Noctigon designs, resistance is pretty damn low, lets say 10mOhm this is the most sensitive variable and also the least informed. Rough calculations show 46.5A against these assumptions and approximations. Comparing against Maukkas output test and assuming 15% OTF losses, these numbers line up with output specs as well. 14000 OTF would require ~915 per emitter which requires about 2.6A each for a total of ~47A and ~150W. Battery pack wise, the cells are seeing ~16A draw a piece, which is easily handled by even 30Qs for short periods. Adding one more cell only increases total output by ~18W (12%) and decreases cell load to ~13A each. Lumens increase of say 10%.

Is 150W not enough power for this light? If not, does 168W pass? Is 16A the short circuit current of a high drain 18650? Does 10% more output (and heat) seem like an appropriate trade-off for a meaningful difference in diameter?

I think your concern is that each emitter isn’t maximally driven by only 3 cells. That is true. And here the exact point of the design. Getting very close to 100lm/W OTF is the main attraction to a 18x emitter light and something that should be appreciated for what it is. I think HANK balanced the design here very well. KUDOS Thumbs Up

Thanks for the write-up! I didn’t mean to insinuate that Hank made a poor design choice, I should’ve been more clear that I just didn’t understand how it all works. I see now that it will be a very fine light.

Are 30Qs no longer best choice? I know the sony VTC6 was a contender at one time, but I’m not sure the current best choice. What should I get for this light? I am buying this light haha.

JasonWW
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beastlykings wrote:
I have concerns that 3×18650 can’t properly power this light, can someone tell me how 3×18350 are gonna do anything but get murdered by what is essentially a short circuit’s worth of current?

Remember that the batteries are only going to give what they can. The voltage will sag and the current will be less compared to 18650 cells. So output will be less. I would not worry too much about the cells getting “murdered”. Lol
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beastlykings wrote:

Are 30Qs no longer best choice? I know the sony VTC6 was a contender at one time, but I’m not sure the current best choice. What should I get for this light? I am buying this light haha.

30Q is a really good compromise between high discharge and high capacity. Most lights don’t need the extreme discharge capacity of a 25S. Another good thing about the 30Q is that it’s relatively easy to find and inexpensive.
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I come from the drone flying hobby, where lipos can and will puff and burn if you pull more amps than they can handle. Even with voltage sag, you can easily pull over 100amps from a 1500mah 4s pack. But if you do that for more than a few seconds at a time, you murder the pack lol

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That the Meteor M43 has retained its status as a classic for as long as it has is a testament to the quality and practicality of its design and fabrication. Even the D18 is only an incremental improvement, although a welcome one. I think we are seeing the birth of another benchmark classic – a practical one. Thank you.

DB Custom
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I loved the M43 right off the bat, but the UI left a lot to be desired for me with my horrid memory. So ultimately I changed the driver and at the moment I have it running so hot it glitches Anduril in about 15 seconds on Turbo. Big Smile

I learned though from that, when I built Ham’r I used 5 drivers. lol (3 different emitters in 5 variations)

DB Custom
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Is there a beamshot available for this light? Keen to see how those little TIR’s perform… they look similar to some I bought to fill in gaps but ended up not using. Should be pretty neat though… can’t wait to find out.

DB Custom
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I’m still struggling with the vision of Newlumen powering 15,000 lights on 4 18650 cells…

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Mateminco mt18 modded with xpl hi.

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