TK's Emisar D18 review -- 3x18650 photon grenade

270 posts / 0 new
Last post
ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10166
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Pavlo wrote:
How much distance from the optics is required so that mixxed cct setup is not noticeable in the beam? Wondering specifically about close up use indoors. Is it fully blended at 1 ft away from light? Closer, further?

It seems to blend in about 10 to 15 cm.

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 631
Location: Canada

Thank you.

Thats a lot closer than I expected!

AEDe
AEDe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 12/01/2016 - 12:07
Posts: 571
Location: Moscow
ToyKeeper wrote:
If you want to see the shape of the water-cooled turbo discharge curve, look up your cells on HKJ’s battery comparison site. It’s the same curve.

It is not true.discharge curve has stable current or power.
Fet driver has neither stable current nor stable power.

Quote:
And he included graphs, to make the point that the voltage need not be as high as possible and the cells need not be as high-amp as possible. But then he talked about the importance of keeping the contacts clean, which seems to imply the opposite.

So… mixed messages. It’s a little confusing.


So what is not clear?
Is something really wrong with circuit than driver restrict pover. Usual 10A batteries has good enough resistans to hold turbo . About 25W/cell <10A
Ofcourse 10A cells provide less stabilized/nonstabilized rantime ratio but absolute turbo rantime is almost the same as using hidrain 3Ah cells.

ToyKeeper wrote:
The light has freshly cleaned contacts.
The last question. Is contact betwin tail copper board and aluminium host cleaned too? (contact of two metals. best place for oxidation )

How do you feel about linear drivers in flashlights?

Strong likeLikeNeutralDislikeStrong dislike
AEDe

Linear driver is good for moonlights where efficiency of buck and led on constant current are low.

G.P. wrote:
.it’s max performance pales in comparison to the D18’s max performance.

ANSI lm of M43 is almost twice D18 ANSI lm.)
toobadorz
toobadorz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/10/2017 - 09:04
Posts: 145

TK, what’s the emitter you got in your M43? Nichia D220 219B?

Jinx
Jinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 28 min ago
Joined: 10/16/2011 - 11:35
Posts: 1121
Location: Just outside the EU :)

First impressions are good! Mine landed today and will be replacing the Q8 tonight Smile

Thank you TK for the review and work put into this Thumbs Up

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

Hank puts together a gook looking light, no doubt!

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

AEDe, you obviously really like the Meteor M43, as a great many of us do. But the complexity of the driver and it’s UI make it a Love/Hate kind of thing, not everyone loves how it works and I know quite a few shelving the light or selling it for this reason. No need to target anyone here because they don’t hold your viewpoint, that’s an argument that really can’t be won.

I have modded the M43 to make it perform to my liking, but it was not an easy mod! The MCPCB creates limitations by it’s design, the compact nature of the build allows very little space for changes. I’m very happy with how Anduril works in my Meteor but the light doesn’t handle high temperature well due again to the extremely compact design. Love the M43’s style, as a first production Noctigon light it really is impressive although it did leave ample room for the improvements brought to the table by the D18.

TK has a lot invested in Hanks success and her involvement in his developments is greatly appreciated by a high majority in this forum. I may well be her biggest fan and have her firmware in as many of my lights as possible. The very fact that manufactured lights are coming out with TK UI’s attests to her success in this field, job well done and I am deeply grateful to her extensive efforts.

If the FET+ style driver is not your thing, there are other lights out there for you I’m sure.

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1434
Location: Germany

I think that AEDe has a more in-depth understanding of the Meteors driver than most here do. Its obviously rather complicated compared to most drivers here.

In the turbo mode the Meteors driver provides constant brightness (>=90%) until the batteries are empty if the light is kept cool. All the diagrams posted here regarding this show this. I have also done this measurement myself and got the same result.

Emisar lights use FET drivers and so the D18 does too. This does not make them better than the boost driver in the Meteor. They are just different and certainly cheaper to develop and produce. Many people here on the forums care about the max output. Hank wants to sell lots of lights, so…

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

But of course, one developer pitted against another… each with a far different viewpoint on what constitutes correct. They will each gain a following, that’s how it works.

But what is the use of a flashlight that can’t be picked up and operated by just anyone? Any emergency scenario where the kids, the wife, a neighbor, a firefighter or police officer gets handed the light and they can’t work it. No time to figure it out, throw it down and grab the light that works.

There is a following of the coffee that comes from coffee beans eaten by an elephant and then collected from it’s dung. That doesn’t mean it’s a main stream coffee (no pun intended).

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

Ok, so the Meteor is capable of maintaining constant current in Siberia or during the worst cold snap to ever hit Chicago, but that doesn’t help me here in Texas where the nights can be 100º at midnight. In most scenario’s, the Meteor cannot maintain constant current because it Does in fact get to hot to run at sustained high levels. Quickly.

Like all opinions, I can only express mine based on the facts where I perceive them. But I paid good money for the Meteor M43 and where I live, it simply doesn’t work well. Thus, the driver components got scraped off into the trash bin and I rebuilt the light so it’s usable for me. With an FET driver and then with Anduril when it became available. And then with Samsung LH351D’s when those became available. Mine makes 11,000 lumens, gets really hot, again it still can’t sustain serious outputs for any real length of time due to lack of thermal dispersion.

I will be experimenting with the D18 when it makes it across the pond, will fit it with LH351D W6 emitters and see what she can do. Wink

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1434
Location: Germany

The funny thing is, that we are discussing the first 30s of operation here. After that both lights dim quickly and the Meteor might be slightly brighter because it has more mass.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

Like usual, all of the big output lights have to step down or fry themselves. We’re making more power than a handheld flashlight can consistently handle.

I looked at my M43 again due to all this talk, I didn’ t put an FET in it… I put 4 in! A master and 3 slaves running LH351D W6 emitters… it makes 13,500 lumens at start on 30Q cells in my now calibrated light box. Wink

So, it’s looking really interesting as to just what the D18 may be capable of. Big Smile

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1434
Location: Germany

The D18 has more emitters, so it will be brighter at turn on ;).

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10166
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
DB Custom wrote:
one developer pitted against another… each with a far different viewpoint …

… in a no-holds-barred cage match … to the death!

Round Three! Fight!

DB Custom wrote:
I will be experimenting with the D18 when it makes it across the pond, will fit it with LH351D W6 emitters and see what she can do. Wink

I think we already know what to expect though. It should be a very bright burst at first, but it’ll get extremely hot and step down quickly to around 2000 or 3000 lumens. The main questions are whether LH351D will fit into these optics, how bright that initial burst might be, and how nice the beam will look. You might have to slice the domes or something before it’ll even come close to fitting.

AEDe
AEDe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 12/01/2016 - 12:07
Posts: 571
Location: Moscow

Actually I did not want to argue. D18 is great and m43 is great flashlight too. Each has many advantages, they are just different device with different features. In some case m43 are more suitable is other D18 .

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 2921
Location: US
ToyKeeper wrote:
before it’ll even come close to fitting.

They fit the E07 just fine and i’ve not seen a TIR that they didn’t look acceptable in. Granted they are super floody but I doubt there is any concern of them fitting or the beam not looking good (if you prefer flood)

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10166
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
contactcr wrote:
They fit the E07 just fine and i’ve not seen a TIR that they didn’t look acceptable in.

The D18’s optics have a significantly smaller inner void than the E07’s optic. The LH351D has a significantly larger dome than the SST-20. So it might fit… but it might not.

XP-L HI works, but it’s flat.

If I measure the pixels in my photos, it looks like the optic probably can’t fit an emitter which uses the full width of the XP pad… and the LH351D uses the full width.

But since no one has tested it yet, it’s still possible that it might just barely fit. I recall the XP-L HD would barely fit into Carclo optics… but it would end up permanently stuck and even a slight bump would cause de-doming. So I’m guessing this might be like that. It can probably be forced on, but it may never come off again.

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 2921
Location: US

I see what you mean. I figured since the entire TIR size was larger that it would likely not have a smaller opening but I guess it is possible that is the case.

ledalex
ledalex's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 07/21/2017 - 17:58
Posts: 91
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Jinx wrote:
First impressions are good! Mine landed today and will be replacing the Q8 tonight Smile

Thank you TK for the review and work put into this Thumbs Up


Has anyone in America received theirs yet? I’m looking at tracking and the light is in the country but USPS doesn’t have a delivery estimate yet.
DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

Well, yeah, those arguments can be valid, might should be valid, but of course it will depend on what I do to get there. Wink I may add a finned spacer and give it a couple of pounds of thermal mass to work with. Might even go copper. Might use those optics, might not. I may just machine a larger head to screw into the bezel threads and use 20mm 15º optics over all 18 LH351D emitters. Big Smile Or 24 emitters, or however it may work out. Who knows? I kinda tend to do these things on the fly, so even I don’t know where it’s going til it’s gone. Silly

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

Thank you AEDe.

G.P.
G.P.'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 11/11/2018 - 12:49
Posts: 80
Location: Canada

AEDe wrote:

ANSI lm of M43 is almost twice D18 ANSI lm.)

Please explain. Even the newest version of the M43 (approx 8000 lumens) does not make even close to the same amount of lumens as the D18. I cannot find any definition of ansi lumens that would make the M43 outperform the D18.

Even for an 8000 lumen light the M43 is underwhelming, and after reading lots of similar posts I’m far from the only one that feels this way. It does a nice ceiling bounce, but is lacking in real world use. It’s just so floody that it doesn’t throw very far or light up any one thing very much…but it sure does light up a large area! Any of my lights with more lumens (and lots with less lumens but more of a hot spot) seem much brighter and can see a lot further than the M43.

I don’t foresee any measurement, theoretical or otherwise, that is actually going translate to the M43 outperforming the D18 in the real world. I would absolutely love to be shown otherwise. At the moment my M43 has been demoted to my nightstand with a diffuser, due to its nice moonlight mode for reading and long runtime on low. It deserves more, but like others have mentioned, its UI and size are not worth putting up with for me.

twisted raven
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 11:10
Posts: 493
Location: texas

ANSI lumens are measured at 30s.

ledalex
ledalex's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 07/21/2017 - 17:58
Posts: 91
Location: Los Angeles, CA

The ANSI lumen figures are certainly not very useful for comparing these two flashlights, both of which are not designed to operated at turbo for very long…. It’s really a silly technicality to point out… And it’s really a useless metric because you could design a flashlight that sustains a brightness level long enough to get a higher rating but immediately has to severely step down right after 30 seconds..

Also I don’t know much about how the thermal step down works but if you started on say 8k lumens on the d18 would it even get a lower ANSI lumen figure than the m43? Is that a stupid question?

G.P. wrote:
AEDe wrote:
ANSI lm of M43 is almost twice D18 ANSI lm.)
Please explain. Even the newest version of the M43 (approx 8000 lumens) does not make even close to the same amount of lumens as the D18. I cannot find any definition of ansi lumens that would make the M43 outperform the D18.

Even for an 8000 lumen light the M43 is underwhelming, and after reading lots of similar posts I’m far from the only one that feels this way. It does a nice ceiling bounce, but is lacking in real world use. It’s just so floody that it doesn’t throw very far or light up any one thing very much…but it sure does light up a large area! Any of my lights with more lumens (and lots with less lumens but more of a hot spot) seem much brighter and can see a lot further than the M43.

I don’t foresee any measurement, theoretical or otherwise, that is actually going translate to the M43 outperforming the D18 in the real world. I would absolutely love to be shown otherwise. At the moment my M43 has been demoted to my nightstand with a diffuser, due to its nice moonlight mode for reading and long runtime on low. It deserves more, but like others have mentioned, its UI and size are not worth putting up with for me.

AEDe
AEDe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 12/01/2016 - 12:07
Posts: 571
Location: Moscow

It was a joke)
M43 and D18 have about the same mass. So if we start D18 at ~8-9Klm it could show more ANSI lm than D18 at turbo and Meteor at turbo.

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3654
Location: RO
AEDe wrote:
The last question. Is contact betwin tail copper board and aluminium host cleaned too? (contact of two metals. best place for oxidation )

Except there is no copper touching aluminum, it’s gold touching aluminum.

AEDe
AEDe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 12/01/2016 - 12:07
Posts: 571
Location: Moscow
Hikelite wrote:
AEDe wrote:
The last question. Is contact betwin tail copper board and aluminium host cleaned too? (contact of two metals. best place for oxidation )

Except there is no copper touching aluminum, it’s gold touching aluminum.

My old M43 had issue in that place. After washing it stopped to turn on(it shows power warnig indication) at turbo with fully charged new hidrain 18650. Than I had disassemble it and had seen oxidation between copper board and host. After cleaning it works fine.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20633
Location: Heart of Texas

The ground from the aluminum host is made by the screws securing the copper board, and these screw holes are gold plated. So there is no ground through an aluminum to copper contact. The copper is clad in masking and the contacts are, you guessed it, gold plated. Wink

(brass ground screws can up the ante a bit on current draw, just saying)

AEDe
AEDe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 12/01/2016 - 12:07
Posts: 571
Location: Moscow

Thanks for clarifying, but it does not change the essence. This place can have a fairly high resistance due to corrosion. At least in the first batches of M43 it was so. Now the quality of metal working of Henk’s flashlights greatly improved. Maybe something has changed.

mhanlen
mhanlen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/01/2013 - 11:42
Posts: 2601
Location: Eastern USA
ToyKeeper wrote:
mhanlen wrote:
So the moonlight (low) mode seems to be much lower on paper than the D4 and D4S, is that right?

Yes. The D4’s moon mode was relatively bright, because of the firmware used. The D4S’s moon mode was relatively bright because it had three 7135 chips on that channel instead of just one. The emitters used probably also play into things here, and some variation between individual lights. But I’ve found the D18’s moon mode is lower than either the D4 or D4S.

Thanks for the response!

Pages