Interest in Single LED and triple LED Jetbeam Rotaries with Nichia LEDs

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jon_slider
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Interest in Single LED and triple LED Jetbeam Rotaries with Nichia LEDs
Old model RRT-01 with triple N219b 3500k 9080 w Carclo
14% (5 votes)
Old model RRT-01 with single N219b 4500k 9080 w stock reflector
19% (7 votes)
New model RRT-01 with triple E21a 3500k 9080 w Carclo
22% (8 votes)
New model RRT-01 with centered cluster of four E21a 4500k 9080 and Tir lens
44% (16 votes)
Total votes: 36
Tixx
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I have a new model Skylumen mod with XHP 50.2 5500k with diffused lens. These are great lights. I chose the center cluster option, but might not have a good visual of what this is exactly. Could you provide more detail on that option? Thanks!

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RRT0SE with new led.
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jon_slider
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Tixx wrote:
I chose the center cluster option, but might not have a good visual of what this is exactly. Could you provide more detail on that option? Thanks!

thanks for participating
this is what Clemence calls a Quadrix, the LEDs are very small and the array is similar in diameter as a single N219b (ignore the wires, focus on the 4x layout):

here is a Carclo triple 3500k, single 4500k, and a stock light, these are old model (the lights are off, this shows just reflected daylight)

more pics and lumen info in this thread:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66708

.

and a visual on the New and Old model, may not be to scale. The Old model measures 1/8” larger diameter, and weights about 1 ounce more:

iamlucky13
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Is this poll related to Clemence’s plan to offer modified RRT-01’s?

Tixx
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Thanks for the info Jon! Seems the E21 is about the size of an XP-L Hi. I have no idea what the beam would look like for those put together with a TIR or what the advantage this offers.

Tally-ho
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iamlucky13 wrote:
Is this poll related to Clemence’s plan to offer modified RRT-01’s?

I also don’t understand what is this poll for as clemence won’t mod the old discontinued version but he’swaiting for the new one he ordered do evaluate its “mod-ability”.
jon_slider, could you be more clear about this poll, please ?

Interesting to see that the carclo triple in the eye10 was modified/recut to avoid the light to be cut by the bezel. Don’t now if the recut profil is idealy reshaped, though.
Would vote for 4 as there is too many carclo triple mods out there and is kind of boring even if it is useful. Would like to see more mod and review (with colorimetric test) with virence VRxxSP4 MCPCB.

jon_slider
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The poll is for old models and also for new models.

The old models would not necessarily be from Clemence, the new models would definitely be from Clemence.

this poll is for my own personal interest, I did not consult Clemence before posting it. I do have a lead on a source for old models, and am exploring more than one modder as an option.

I have an Old model triple 3500k and an old model single 4500k. Each is good for different things, I like both at different times.

Beam quality, and LED specs remains to be discussed at a later time, once I get a sense of how much interest there is in each option listed in the poll. Thanks for voting, and for participating in the discussion and brainstorming.

my personal preference is for the old model, and the short clip..
I like the 3500k as a triple, and the 4500k as a single.

btw the clip poll is here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66722

Tally-ho
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I read you poll too quickly and would go with the old model which is slimmer + VRxxSP4 MCPCB if the original driver is compliant with the VRxxSP4.
It’s something that I have in mind since “long” for my second RRT01 which is still unmodified. I have a few of the VR16SP4 left but the gap between LEDs is a bit too large in this small reflector for the beam to probably be good.

jon_slider
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Tally-ho wrote:
I read you poll too quickly and would go with the old model which is slimmer + VRxxSP4 MCPCB if the original driver is compliant with the VRxxSP4.

I appreciate your input.
However, I intentionally posted the old model options for N219b triple or single.

the quadrix is being polled only for the new model, since as you noted, that is the one that Clemence has expressed interest in working with.

Im happy to answer more questions, and appreciate your specific preferences regarding the specific items in the poll. Lets try not to get ahead of ourselves with other combinations, which though possible, are not yet being polled.

Tally-ho
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OK, sorry.
It’s was just my two cents as i’m not interested. I already have 2 old version and I’m not interested by the new one, even if the larger head catch my attention for a future mod.
Generally I’m modding flashlights by myself. I bought 2x Jetusolis (which was an exception) just for the sake of testing their CRI immediately with my own eyes as it can take me months to complete a mod + AAA flashlights are useful for me + it was a good occasion to support his work and dedication, that I truely appreciate, to high CRI nichia.

Good luck with your initiative.
SST01 is nice and Nichia high CRI are a “blessing”. I have a few 219B SW45 left and will go with E21A and optisolis for every of my future mods of small and med size flashlights.

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please dont apologize for anything, it is to be expected that people have many ideas that cannot be captured in a simple poll

I also want to support Clemence, to whom I am immensely grateful for sourcing LEDs I love

I also bought a JetU Optisolis and a JetU E17a, because I want to keep him fed, so he can keep catering to our love of High CRI Smile

its a great time for Nichia LEDs..
fwiw, I lack your modding skills, and rely on others
I have not learned much about non Nichia options, except that they tend to have Green Tint, that I avoid… LOL

contactcr
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I emailed Jetbeam expressing interest in them creating an OP reflector for the new RRT01. Others should too if they feel it’s important

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@contactcr : good idea.

@jon_slider : i would like to support your initiative, and clemence work again. The new SST01 with SP4 MCPCB is growing on me. I’m generally using my old SST01 at work for close range task but if clemence will offer it with 2 or 3 different TIR, I might not resist to renew my support.
If an OP reflector works with it and a swapping ability is maintained I would be even more interested but it is not an absolute requirement. Just an interesting alternative as I also appreciate traditional reflector beam.

If the mod modify the flashlight head to the point that the reflector can’t be used anymore, i’m fine with a TIR but I would probably prefer a tint mix instead of 4x E21A 4500K. I’m waiting for maukka’s test to have a better idea.

I will vote for 4, depending on price and clemence’s agreement for tint mixing if you are OK with this.

jon_slider
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@Tally-ho, I leave it to Clemence to share his official offerings after he is ready. This poll is not asking for a commitment to his build, if it happens.

I like your contributions to the discussion, as you represent the perspective of someone that does their own mods. People like you dont really need to buy a modded light, but I also respect that you want to help Clemence.. and I hope he shares his design with us when he is ready..

.

@contractr, I have OP reflector in my old model RRT-01 and honestly, it does not make a very good beam. There are rings, both before and after modding to N219b.

so I dont blame you for wanting to find a reflector that produces a better beam, I dont have any suggestions in that regard, but share your interest. imo the beam of the old and new RRT-01 are equally average, not ideal. I was quite impressed how well Vinh got the white1 to work, as far as hotspot, but not impressed with the spill from the stock reflector in the new RRT-01..

these details are something I think worth discussing, though a bit hard to capture in some photos, the triple Carclo produces a much more balanced beam, with less artifacts, than the stock RRT-01 reflector. But, a single LED in a reflector throws farther, and uses less lumens, to illuminate a smaller and more distant target

the easiest way to get a decent beam is to use a Tir, unless the reflector and LED are well matched. Diffused tir is even easier to get a decent beam, if that beam style is desired for the application. But, diffusion reduces throw and increases hotspot size, which reduces brightness on target.. no free lunch

that is why I have both Smile

if you look closely at this photo,

you can get a slight idea about the differences in the beams of a triple carclo, single sw45, and the stock single XM-L.. both singles have OP reflectors (theres a pic higher up)… and both have rings in the spill.. the N219b has more noticeable rings than the XM-L

as is often claimed, rings in the beams are “not noticeable in actual use”, thats a thing for whitewall hunters.. as it happes, a lot of My “actual use” includes whitewall hunting.. LOL

I would not offer to sell people single LED mods, unless they accept the beam issues, rings in the spill.. fwiw, rings in the spill is in no way limited to RRT-01, my HDS Rotary had them too, both with stock XP-G and with N219b

.

in a few days I will receive my modded TCR-1 and will post some beam comparisons.. CRX swapped out the reflector, but I dont know what he used.. maybe he will share his secrets with you.. I suggest you PM him and share what you learn

there are certainly times when I prefer a single led over a Tir optic.. the reverse is also true
both is better.. LOL

.

I am considering having a few old model RRT-01 modded, and wanted to get an idea if people here had a preference for either version. Thank you all for taking the time to vote. If I decide to move forward, I will let people know what I have drummed up as possible.. I may have a small number, small as in count on one hand, of triple 219b, and single old model available in the future, depending on details that remain to be sorted.

Feel free to PM me if someone wants to discuss a possible old RRT-01 with a high CRI mod.. If you prefer the new model, Clemence is the man.

Tally-ho
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My old RRT01 (XM-L + slight OP reflector) has an external ring when the flashlight is very close to a surface, less than 20 cm and is probably due to reflection on the stainless steel bezel.
There is no ring within the beam and the external ring fade out (becoming invisible) with the distance, passed 20 cm.
I don’t like ringy beam but the external ring doesn’t bother me much, i’m only noticing it.

On a side note : The beam of the sunwayman V10R with XP-G and SMO reflector was ring-less while the V10R+ with XM-L and very light SMO reflector had a ring into the beam. I’m just mentionning this as it might interest you since your control ring (rotary) fever. Big Smile

EDIT : Forgot to vote. Done.

contactcr
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I have a $10 Utorch UT01 which makes a better beam than this RRT01. No need to make excuses for them or generalize all reflectors. it’s just not a great reflector, just like their choice of using that long ass clip that covers the control ring.

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jon_slider wrote:
this poll is for my own personal interest, I did not consult Clemence before posting it. I do have a lead on a source for old models, and am exploring more than one modder as an option

Thanks for clarifying.

It’s a tough choice for me. I instinctively tend toward the new version for the 18350 support and possibly (unknown) improvements in the driver, but it’s also slightly larger, and the 18350 support is less important now that Vapcell’s newest 16340 is available.

I don’t know if I have a preference between triple or quadtrix. I could go with either one. I assume 20mm TIR’s will work with the quadtrix in similar fashion to an XHP50, and that strikes me intuitively as a better setup. 3500K vs. 4500K is situational for me, so I’m voting for the quadtrix.

jon_slider
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iamlucky13 wrote:
18350 support

Thanks for bringing that up. You are correct, the New Model will fit a Protected 18350, the Original will not, it only fits the UnProtected 18350

.

what Im getting from the poll, is that over 75% of participants want whatever Clemence has to offer, and I agree 100% Smile

Clemences new version RRT-01 Hight CRI offerings, and details about what LEDs and optics will be used, will be posted in a separate thread.

Vinh also is building new version RRT-01 with various LEDs.

.

Im thinking about buying 10 Original Model RRT-01 to be modded to High CRI N219b and made available for purchase. They have short pocket clips. :-). Please PM me if any of you would like to know more details.

.

If anyone wants to buy an Original Model RRT-01 in stock form, you can get them from the link in this post:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1463227#comment-1463227 thanks to wynand

iamlucky13
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I was actually under the impression the old model only fits 16340 (aka RCR123A) cells, explaining why the new model has a larger diameter. Does the old one actually fit unprotected 18350’s?

I don’t know how interested I am in this light yet, but when I heard Clemence was considering a mod-kit for it, that definitely caught my attention. I will watch for his results with interest.

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I have both the old version RRT-01 and the new 2019 version.

  • All versions of the of the RRT-01 fit 18350 without modification. The original RRT-01 was actually one of the first lights designed for 18350 from the start. It was a contrast from contemporary lights like the Sunwayman V11R that only fit 16340.

  • The Niteye Eye10 and Jetbeam TCR-01 also fit 18350 without modification. I assume the same also applies to the Niteye Eye10 TiC, but I don’t have one to check.
  • The battery tubes on both the old and new RRT01 have about the same diameter. However, the new RRT-01 is thicker and wider at the head and the base of the tail. The new RRT-01 is also noticeably heavier than the old version owing to the wider head and brass pill. The new one feels a bit like a Sipik 68 in the hand and pocket with its pinched-in battery tube. The old one feels like a small tube flashlight.
  • The reflectors of both versions of the RRT-01 appear to have the same width and depth. However, they are not quite interchangeable. While the reflective surfaces appear to have the same dimensions the new RRT-01’s reflector has more mass at the sides and doesn’t quite fit in the old RRT-01.
  • Early first generation old RRT-01s also shipped with a long clip and smooth reflector. The smooth reflector they came with produced a horrible ringy beam. Much worse than the beam from the new RRT-01. Jetbeam produced a second-generation early version RRT-01 with an Orange Peel reflector and shorter clip.
  • Early version of the Niteye Eye10 only had knurling on half the magnetic ring. The other half was completely smooth. In later runs, Niteye added a few ribs to this smooth portion for better traction.
  • The internal dimensions of the battery compartment appear identical on both the old and new versions.
  • The old RRT-01 featured a ball-bearing on slightly rough matte anodizing with a small detente at off and max. The ring worked extremely well and action was smooth, though some did find the anodizing to be slightly gritty.
  • The old Eye-10 had the same ball-bearing as the RRT-01, but featured a non-stop row of detentes through the entire rotation of the ring (something like 16 detentes). It was smooth and simple to operate, but felt more like a 16-setting light than true infinitely variable due to the detentes. It also made a sound like a zipper when you cycled the ring.
  • The TCR-01 had a shallow detente at off and max. Overall ring action is smooth with no grittiness. However, the detentes are so shallow they’re almost unnoticeable.
  • The 2019 RRT-01 has deep detentes at off and max, with smooth action between. These detentes are quite deep and it takes firm pressure to turn the ring out of them. The original RRT-01 and TCR-01 were unlikely to have the ring cycle accidentally in the pocket. With the much deeper detentes in the new version I think the risk of accidental pocket activation is basically zero.
jon_slider
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The UnProtected Keepower 1200mAh 18350, definitely works in my Original model RRT-01, and also in my two Eye10 (both versions you described), and in my TCR-1.

Firelight2 wrote:
* The Niteye Eye10 and Jetbeam TCR-01 also fit 18350 without modification. I assume the same also applies to the Niteye Eye10 TiC, but I don’t have one to check.

great post and I agree with everything you said.

with one clarification:
Sadly, the TiC does NOT fit the UnProtected Keepower 1200mAh 18350, the body tube inner diameter is too narrow and the battery gets stuck part way down the tube.

This is a TiC

this is a TCR-1

contactcr
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New version has higher output driver right?

jon_slider
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It has higher output, I do not know if that is due to the driver, and/or due to a more modern LED with lower vf.

If anyone has a new model RRT-01 modded to sw45, please post the output with a fresh 16340 for comparison.

Jay
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FWIW the unprotected Keeppower 1200mAh 18350 I tried didn’t work in the new RRT-01, but the equivalent Vapcell 1100mAh 18350 works fine. Don’t think the positive on the Keeppower protrudes enough to make contact.

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Jay wrote:
FWIW the unprotected Keeppower 1200mAh 18350 I tried didn’t work in the new RRT-01, but the equivalent Vapcell 1100mAh 18350 works fine.

thanks for sharing your experience, pics from this Vinh video

in my Original RRT-01 the Unprotected Keepower 1200mAh works, and the Unprotected Keepower 750mAh does not.. the flat top is wider on the 750, and I think it hits the plastic ring in the head, that is intended for reverse polarity protection

for a visual, here is the Protected Keepower 1200mAh, that I believe Vinh is using in the new RRT-01, next to the 1200mAh UnProtected Keepower that Jay reports does not work in the new RRT-01, but works in the Original RRT-01 I have.

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I am ordering 8 Original RRT-01 to be modded to N219b and they will be available to those who PM me their interest.

These are lights I personally carry. If you like High CRI, I do not think you will be disappointed. Pricing remains to be determined.

three side by side beamshots, for color comparisons
triple N219b 3500k 9080, RRT-01 N219b 4500k 9080, XM-L 6000k

daylight reflections, Lights are OFF:

lights on, dimly:

Triple N219b 3500k 9080, on a low setting

Estimated outputs on a fresh 16340:

Triple N219b 3500k 9080 makes 360 lumens
Jetbeam RRT-01 rotary converted to n219b 4500k 9080 makes 395 lumens
stock 6000k XM-L makes 635 lumens