FW3A Troubleshooting / FAQ

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xevious
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M4D M4X wrote:

xevious wrote:
Great — that’s terrific info (should be in 1st post, FWIW). I do like getting accurate temp reading, so I do 20 clicks (room temp @ 70). So I’ll do 1 click for ceiling. Beer

 


Sorry – you are wrong! 


 1 click at both settings ensures a 30° difference


your example lowers to 10° difference only! 

OK… but this:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Also, this isn’t totally recommended, but as a shortcut for getting a usable thermal config, it should work pretty well if you click only once at each thermal config menu option. This tells it the current temperature is 1 C, and the ceiling is 31 C. But if the light is actually at room temperature, the effect is mostly the same as if you clicked 20 times at each option (for 20 C calbration and 50 C limit). The only significant difference is that the temperature check mode will give the wrong values.

What I get from that is single click adds 20C. So single click for each thermal config menu option sets current temp to 20C and ceiling to 50C (because of 30C base). So basically, I didn’t even need to click 20 times (just once) for setting the current temp.

EDIT: Well, I decided to test it out first hand… and it seems that you’re right. When I click 20 times for the ceiling, the light gets hot, almost too much to handle, but not quite. If I then set thermal ceiling with 1 click, it’s not the same. The light doesn’t get as hot and ramp down happens sooner.

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ONLY if you click ONCE in temp SET when room temp = 20°

then real 20° = 1° FW3A temp 

and real 50° = 31° FW3A temp Limit 

 

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Logic flaw is that 1 click only adds 1°C but start for ambient is 0°C while start for limit is 30°C

So clicking once for each will tell the light that (whatever the real temp is) the ambient temp is 1°C and set the limit to +31°C so that a +30°C from the actual ambient temp and is the same as (with an ambient temp of 20°C) clicking 20 times for ambient (=0+20)  and 20 times for limit (=30+20)

Not sure if this is as clear as i'd like it to be ...

 

Edit : Not fast enough Wink

 

djozz
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Can’t find it back but it was mentioned before: in muggle mode my FW3A does a completely needless stepdown from highest to lowest after a minute or so, sometimes faster sometimes not at all. Nothing is the matter though, not hot at all, battery voltage over 4V, I have set the right tenperature and the FW3A blinks it out correct too, temperature limit set at 52degC.

Is this a bug?

xevious
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M4D M4X wrote:

ONLY if you click ONCE in temp SET when room temp = 20°

then real 20° = 1° FW3A temp 


and real 50° = 31° FW3A temp Limit 


Yeah, seems I had a thick-headed moment there. Tired
So basically there’s an automatic 20C padded to BOTH values of current and limit. Current starts at a base of 0, and Max at 30. So first click means 21C and 51C respectfully. And each successive single click in the menu just adds 1C. I get the logic of the 20C padding, because it’s a safe base value, and saves having to click 20 extra times for each value.

So when I clicked 20 times for the max limit, it was 50C (FW3A) PLUS 20C more… making it 70C actual. That’s 158F… I’d read a while back that 60C to 80C is about the safe maximum operating temperature for LED’s, depending upon the maker and LED type. And the longer you burn at a higher temperature, the shorter your LED life. So maybe it’s safer to set max limit to 60C (10 clicks).

By “padding”, I meant figuratively. Maybe there’s a better synonym to use. Maybe “base value.” I don’t know. We’ve got 2 things being talked about — actual temperature versus FW3A click count. I think it could be better clarified in the instructions. It’s a little confusing for those of us who are not experienced with thermal management settings.

teacher
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I think the post above is not correct at all.
………

Current Temp is this isn’t it??. If room temp is 19C & light is at room temp. Click 19 times. If room temp is 21C, click 21 times. Etc., etc., etc……

I thought Temp Limit started at 30C. To get 50C you click 20 times.

This \/… taken straight from the FW3A User Manual that came in the box:

Thermal configuration

Look at a thermometer to check the current room temperature. Let us assume it says 21 Celsius Turn the light off and wait for its temperature to settle to room temperature.

Go to TempCheck (from OFF: “Click Click Click”. Ascend with double-clicks three times)
When you are in TempCheck, then click 4 times to enter thermal config mode, and calibrate the sensor.

Thermal config mode has two settings:

1. Current temperature Calibration.

  • Click once per degree C to calibrate the sensor. For our example, the ambient temperature is 21 C = click 21 times.

2. Temperature limit.

  • This sets the maximum temperature the light can reach before it will start doing thermal regulation to keep itself from overheating. Click once per degree C above 30. For example, to set the limit to 50 C, click 20 times.

The default is 45 C (15 clicks).

Hint: If you don’t click,the lamp will leave the value unchanged.
The lowest value the user can set is 31 C, by clicking once.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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264
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Problems problems.

CRX
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Why don’t people just set it properly?

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Good question???

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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264 wrote:
Problems problems.

We’ve all been around here long enough to know that.

A new light originating from BLF always has problems, that is because we try new stuff, and things go wrong trying to get chinese companies manufacturing new stuff. Usually after a few batches most of the flaws are ironed out.

You can jump into the first group buy run and expect flaws (I never can resist that), or you can wait for the improved version and risk having to pay more.

teacher
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xevious wrote:
M4D M4X wrote:

ONLY if you click ONCE in temp SET when room temp = 20°

then real 20° = 1° FW3A temp 


and real 50° = 31° FW3A temp Limit 


Yeah, seems I had a thick-headed moment there. Tired
So basically there’s an automatic 20C padded to BOTH values of current and limit. Current starts at a base of 0, and Max at 30. So first click means 21C and 51C respectfully. And each successive single click in the menu just adds 1C. I get the logic of the 20C padding, because it’s a safe base value, and saves having to click 20 extra times for each value.

So when I clicked 20 times for the max limit, it was 50C (FW3A) PLUS 20C more… making it 70C actual. That’s 158F… I’d read a while back that 60C to 80C is about the safe maximum operating temperature for LED’s, depending upon the maker and LED type. And the longer you burn at a higher temperature, the shorter your LED life. So maybe it’s safer to set max limit to 60C (10 clicks).

A lot of the above post is not correct information xevious. There is no “20C padding” you mention. Not trying to argue but this wrong info may well confuse if anyone follows it.

This is how it is done correctly… taken straight from the FW3A User Manual that came in the box:

Thermal configuration

Look at a thermometer to check the current room temperature. Let us assume it says 21 Celsius Turn the light off and wait for its temperature to settle to room temperature.

Go to TempCheck (from OFF: “Click Click Click”. Ascend with double-clicks three times)
When you are in TempCheck, then click 4 times to enter thermal config mode, and calibrate the sensor.

Thermal config mode has two settings:

1. Current temperature Calibration.

  • Click once per degree C to calibrate the sensor. For our example, the ambient temperature is 21 C = click 21 times.

2. Temperature limit.

  • This sets the maximum temperature the light can reach before it will start doing thermal regulation to keep itself from overheating. Click once per degree C above 30. For example, to set the limit to 50 C, click 20 times.

The default is 45 C (15 clicks).

Hint: If you don’t click,the lamp will leave the value unchanged.
The lowest value the user can set is 31 C, by clicking once.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Nev
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djozz wrote:
Can’t find it back but it was mentioned before: in muggle mode my FW3A does a completely needless stepdown from highest to lowest after a minute or so, sometimes faster sometimes not at all. Nothing is the matter though, not hot at all, battery voltage over 4V, I have set the right tenperature and the FW3A blinks it out correct too, temperature limit set at 52degC.

Is this a bug?


Mine does it to ,it’s probly a bug.
saypat
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Hoping TK chimes in here on this and sets the record straight, please. Is the MANUAL correct or not?

teacher
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saypat wrote:
Hoping TK chimes in here on this and sets the record straight, please. Is the MANUAL correct or not?
The manual is correct.

If you DO NOT care if the ‘room temperature’ reads correctly you can do what ToyKeeper says in the quote below.

ToyKeeper wrote:
Also, this isn’t totally recommended, but as a shortcut for getting a usable thermal config, it should work pretty well if you click only once at each thermal config menu option.

This tells it the current temperature is 1 C, and the ceiling is 31 C. But if the light is actually at room temperature, the effect is mostly the same as if you clicked 20 times at each option (for 20 C calbration and 50 C limit). The only significant difference is that the temperature check mode will give the wrong values.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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xevious
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teacher wrote:
A lot of the above post is not correct information xevious. There is no “20C padding” you mention. Not trying to argue but this wrong info may well confuse if anyone follows it.

No worries. I struck out the content of my post. I didn’t mean to be an idiot, but what was throwing me off was having read a few comments scattered about, rather than circling back to the actual manual. I made a poor choice on terminology. It should be “base value.” And there’s 2 things: actual temperature representation and the number of clicks.
See, this threw me, from 1st post:
“At the first menu option, while the light flickers and waits for input, click to enter the current room temperature. This is typically about 20 to 25 C, meaning 20 to 25 clicks.”
Then I saw a post from TK saying only 1 click was needed and you’d have 20C set for current temp. No need to click 20 times to get 20C.
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http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1504301#comment-1504301

xevious wrote:

By “padding”, I meant figuratively. One click is supposed to be 1C. But the bottom end isn’t 0C. It’s 20C. Yet, we’ve have 2 things being talked about — actual temperature versus FW3A numerical value. It’s a little confusing for those of us who are not well schooled on all this thermal management.
I know what you mean by “padding”… that is where you are not correct.

For ambient temp calibration it starts at 0C. If room (ambient) temp is 17C, you must click 17 times for the temperature sensor to be properly calibrated. (1 click = 1C)

Max temp limit starts at 30C. If you want to have a Max Temp Limit of 48C, you do 18 clicks. (1 click = 1C)

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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teacher
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xevious wrote:
teacher wrote:
A lot of the above post is not correct information xevious. There is no “20C padding” you mention. Not trying to argue but this wrong info may well confuse if anyone follows it.

No worries. I struck out the content of my post. I didn’t mean to be an idiot, but what was throwing me off was having read a few comments scattered about, rather than circling back to the original post. I made a poor choice on terminology. It should be “base value.” And there’s 2 things: actual temperature representation and the number of clicks. Anyway, I think I’ve got a grasp on it now and tail is between legs.
You were not being an idiot, just temporarly confused. Smile We have been there before. Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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xevious
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teacher wrote:
You were not being an idiot, just temporarly confused. Smile We have been there before. Smile

Yeah, but I feel like I shouldn’t have been confused…
And maybe I am still not completely clear on this. Because from what you’re saying, if I enter current temp setting and click once, I’ll have 1C set? Current temp just above freezing? Because after I did set that, the light was telling me 21C… (I presume 1C above 20C because of LED temp just a little up from the flashing).
teacher
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xevious wrote:

See, this threw me, from 1st post:
“At the first menu option, while the light flickers and waits for input, click to enter the current room temperature. This is typically about 20 to 25 C, meaning 20 to 25 clicks.”
Then I saw a post from TK saying only 1 click was needed and you’d have 20C set for current temp. No need to click 20 times to get 20C.
I understand. I don’t think you are the only one that misread what ToyKeeper wrote.

Read it again… slowly. Wink

ToyKeeper wrote:
Also, this isn’t totally recommended, but as a shortcut for getting a usable thermal config, it should work pretty well if you click only once at each thermal config menu option.

This tells it the current temperature is 1 C, and the ceiling is 31 C. But if the light is actually at room temperature, the effect is mostly the same as if you clicked 20 times at each option (for 20 C calbration and 50 C limit). The only significant difference is that the temperature check mode will give the wrong values.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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ToyKeeper
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ToyKeeper wrote:
this isn’t totally recommended, but …

Well, that backfired.

So… yeah. To be safe, click 20 times at the first option and 20 times at the second option. If you’re anywhere close to an average room temperature, that should give it a sane thermal config.

I was mostly just pointing out that, if you click the same number of times at both, it should end up with a temperature limit 30 C higher than your current room temperature… whatever that is. And technically, that can be shortened to 1 click at each option, but only if you don’t care about having accurate values in the temperature check mode.

But it seems that was confusing, so it’d be best to enter accurate values instead.

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can we just keep the confusion rolling? enuf already. STOP! Teacher seems to be the only one helping!
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djozz wrote:
Can’t find it back but it was mentioned before: in muggle mode my FW3A does a completely needless stepdown from highest to lowest after a minute or so, sometimes faster sometimes not at all. Nothing is the matter though, not hot at all, battery voltage over 4V, I have set the right tenperature and the FW3A blinks it out correct too, temperature limit set at 52degC.

Is this a bug?

Yes and no.

It shouldn’t be possible for the light to overheat in muggle mode, because it’s limited to such low power. But people wanted it to be really safe, so they can let kids use it. So if it does detect a “getting kinda hot” condition, it doesn’t even try to regulate the output… instead, it panics and drops to the lowest level.

This worked fine in testing, but it seems that some lights detect enough heat to trigger the panic response. It sounds like it’s probably sensing noise in the ADC readings instead of an actual high temperature though.

Do you think it should have the muggle thermal condition removed, so it ignores temperature? It shouldn’t be overheating in that mode at all, and it seems to mostly just cause problems.

teacher
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xevious wrote:
teacher wrote:
You were not being an idiot, just temporarly confused. Smile We have been there before. Smile

Yeah, but I feel like I shouldn’t have been confused…
And maybe I am still not completely clear on this. Because from what you’re saying, if I enter current temp setting and click once, I’ll have 1C set? Current temp just above freezing? Because after I did set that, the light was telling me 21C… (I presume 1C above 20C because of LED temp just a little up from the flashing).
No… just forget everything you knew or thought you knew.

Read the instructions below that came word for word from the FW3A User Manual & follow them exactly.

This is how it is done correctly… taken straight from the FW3A User Manual that came in the box:

Thermal configuration

Look at a thermometer to check the current room temperature. Let us assume it says 21 Celsius Turn the light off and wait for its temperature to settle to room temperature.

Go to TempCheck (from OFF: “Click Click Click”. Ascend with double-clicks three times)
When you are in TempCheck, then click 4 times to enter thermal config mode, and calibrate the sensor.

Thermal config mode has two settings:

1. Current temperature Calibration.

  • Click once per degree C to calibrate the sensor. For our example, the ambient temperature is 21 C = click 21 times.

2. Temperature limit.

  • This sets the maximum temperature the light can reach before it will start doing thermal regulation to keep itself from overheating. Click once per degree C above 30. For example, to set the limit to 50 C, click 20 times.

The default is 45 C (15 clicks).

Hint: If you don’t click,the lamp will leave the value unchanged.
The lowest value the user can set is 31 C, by clicking once.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Nev
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Nev wrote:
djozz wrote:
Can’t find it back but it was mentioned before: in muggle mode my FW3A does a completely needless stepdown from highest to lowest after a minute or so, sometimes faster sometimes not at all. Nothing is the matter though, not hot at all, battery voltage over 4V, I have set the right tenperature and the FW3A blinks it out correct too, temperature limit set at 52degC.

Is this a bug?


Mine does it to ,it’s probly a bug.

Edit
Mine behaves normally now, I did take it apart & cleaned it & took the retaining ring out & put it back ( there was nothing to clean to be honest) , and I was also disappointed because it steps down almost straight away on turbo ,so I set it to 70* ,but it still stepped down straight away ,I then did it again & it still steps down quicker than I like but it’s better , but anyway Muggles behaves ok now.
ttylamg
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I can’t get my light out of lockout, I tried 4 clicks and also tried 6 clicks. All it does is moonlight no matter what… do I have a defective board?

Never mind, I reset it by removing the battery… I thought loosen head was enough apparently not.

Arriving soon C8+ (osram mod) -
FT03 (pending repair) - Chaselight (hack dedome) - FW3A (W aux TIR) - Sofirn C8T - Emissar D4 (W aux TIR) - Convoy S2+ - Sipik (rip) - Solarforce L2
------------------------------------
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————————————
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wfp
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Hi All,

 

I just received my FW3A and I can not seem to get it to work. Here is what I've tried so far:

1) Confirmed I am inserting the battery positive side towards the driver. I see the flashlight blinks once as I am tightening the cap).

2) Pressing the power button there is a nice tactile click but I've unscrewed the tailcap just to verify to see if the "nub" is there (it is)

3) Tried re-tightening the tail cap first and then the head.

4) Tried the battery in my D4(works fine).

 

Anything else I can try?

Thanks,

WFP

Firelight2
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wfp wrote:

Hi All,


 


I just received my FW3A and I can not seem to get it to work. Here is what I’ve tried so far:


1) Confirmed I am inserting the battery positive side towards the driver. I see the flashlight blinks once as I am tightening the cap).


2) Pressing the power button there is a nice tactile click but I’ve unscrewed the tailcap just to verify to see if the “nub” is there (it is)


3) Tried re-tightening the tail cap first and then the head.


4) Tried the battery in my D4(works fine).


 


Anything else I can try?


Thanks,


WFP

You saw the light flash when you started screwing in the battery tube. This means main power is connected to the driver. However, nothing happens when you press the button. The problem is likely the switch connection to the driver. Try the following:

  • open the light up and confirm that the driver is in its socket the driver retaining ring is tight.
  • examine the contact ring for the inner tube at both the driver and the tailcap. Make sure there is no debris present that would prevent them from making connection.
  • Reassemble. Tighten the tailcap first. Make it tight quite. Then put in the battery and tighten the head.

idleprocess
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I got through thermal config OK (Light thought it was 45C in a 28C room – LOL) with the visual guide. But I thought I had done something weird with the ramp config veiling – was disturbingly dim after setting the levels and steps for stepped ramp!

By actually RTFM’ing (I know, I know the pictures are otherwise relatively intuitive), I learned that one subtracts the desired value from 151.

teacher
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wfp wrote:

Hi All,


 


I just received my FW3A and I can not seem to get it to work. Here is what I’ve tried so far:


1) Confirmed I am inserting the battery positive side towards the driver. I see the flashlight blinks once as I am tightening the cap).


2) Pressing the power button there is a nice tactile click but I’ve unscrewed the tailcap just to verify to see if the “nub” is there (it is)


3) Tried re-tightening the tail cap first and then the head.


4) Tried the battery in my D4(works fine).


 


Anything else I can try?


Thanks,


WFP

Hi…. Go HERE . Read it, do what is says, and hopefully that will fix you up. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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wfp
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@Firelight2

@teacher

It was the retaining ring. It "looked" like it was tight but apparently not. A couple of twists of the ring and I am now good to go. Cheers!

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