Sofirn SP70 BLF Edition Development Thread

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Unloco
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I am waiting for the BLF Edition.

Plotthound
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I’m waiting for a BLF edition too.

Plotthound
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When you look at other lights in the Sofirn Official Store, this one for instance:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Sofirn-C8G-Powerful-21700-LED-flashlight-Cree-XHP35-HI-2000lm-18650-Torch-with-ATR-2-Groups/2933049_33009118261.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.58813ebahkln2h

Scroll down, they show pictures of some of their other lights. One’s a Sofirn-BLF SP70.
Did they jump the gun, or being a little disingenuous?

djozz
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The current SP70 is called BLF-SP70 by Sofirn because BLF was strongly involved in the development. It is confusing but that is not the BLF-edition yet that is discussed in this thread.

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Plotthound wrote:
When you look at other lights in the Sofirn Official Store, this one for instance:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Sofirn-C8G-Powerful-21700-LED-flashlight-Cree-XHP35-HI-2000lm-18650-Torch-with-ATR-2-Groups/2933049_33009118261.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.58813ebahkln2h

Scroll down, they show pictures of some of their other lights. One’s a Sofirn-BLF SP70.
Did they jump the gun, or being a little disingenuous?

Confusion in their listing, considering it says 5500 lumens. I would think with the potential upgrades that number would be higher?

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
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Much higher.

Just changing the 6% IACS steel spring to 22% IACS BeCu C17200 springs would be a large upgrade.

Getting 38% IACS BeCu C17530 springs, an AR lens, and higher power components could easily push the light output to 8000-9000+ lumens.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

hasddie293
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Much higher.
Getting 38% IACS BeCu C17530 springs, an AR lens, and higher power components could easily push the light output to 9000+ lumens.

I’m willing to put in on this. Consider it uses 2× 26650 but single XHP70.2 , i’ve would exp 8000+ lumen, since today single battery xhp70.2 produce about 3000 to 4000 lumens. If you look at SP70, with its 5500lumen…isn’ that close range to “single battery category”?.

Finally, thinking about what worths for waiting the blf edition : High-Drain cell only(26650 or 21700?), BeCu spring, benzel design, AR Lens, suitable specific driver(think about 2x cell feed 1x led)

Thinking about flooder and trower sometimes make me confuse. But since i am floorder user, a frequent night searcher, I want Turbo give me its fullest range of its limit capacity over given its max period of time. I’ve seen Sp70 ofcourse but why I wait is becos I want clear comparison of both so that I can know which one is my pureest desireeer…. CHEER! Big Smile

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hasddie293 wrote:

I’m willing to put in on this. Consider it uses 2× 26650 but single XHP70.2 , I would expect 8000+ lumen, since today single battery xhp70.2 produce about 3000 to 4000 lumens. If you look at SP70, with its 5500 lumen…isn’t that close range to “single battery category”?.

No, factory made boost driven 70.2 flashlights don’t really get to 4,000 lumen, maybe the highest is 3,500. Most are about 3,000.

Also remember that the factory rating is under rated. It was made using low drain batteries. With high drain cells, the output is higher. DB Custom said his stock light measured 8300 lumen at turn on using 30T cells. His measurements are higher than mine, but maybe that is what you were expecting.

So stock is brighter than the rating might suggest.

We also know that bypassing the springs adds a big boost in output. If you want higher output, bypass the springs.

As the led amperage increases it’s harder and harder to get more output. So you can’t say 2 batteries should double output. It’s not that simple.

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I was one of the folks distracted by the FT03 and Emisar, so I only recently found out about Sofirn’s new lights. I normally don’t like lights as large as the SP70, but this one is still reasonably-sized, priced right, and made by Sofirn, which tends to give me the silky square threads that Daddy likes… er, um… [cough][mumble]. Even though it’s a good value, I just can’t justify buying an SP70 as I’m flat broke.

The C8G is exactly the light that I was looking for a few months ago Facepalm , but now I’ve got an FT03 and can’t justify buying a light that serves basically the same purpose; I can’t afford to collect lights Crying . The C8G is much more compact and will fit into a holster, however, whereas the FT03 is small and light enough to carry, but large enough it doesn’t fit pockets or holsters. A large coat pocket can do the job, but the weather is warm now and I haven’t yet found a good way to protect the lens.

The FT03 is a great light for the price, but installing and removing the tail cap on my Astolux lights (also have an A6) just isn’t the same experience as doing so on the Sofirn C8F 21700’s that I gave as Christmas gifts. I’m a fidgety kind of guy (never with “spinners”, though) and could play with those threads for hours.

Sofirn makes nice lights, but most of them don’t come with NarilM or Anduril and you really become spoiled once you see what good firmware can do to a light. I hated the ramping on the C8F 21700’s that I gifted, but I love it on the FT03.

The SP70 is a better all-purpose light than the FT03, but it still costs nearly twice as much as doesn’t have Narsil; the BLF version will be tempting, but it’s quite possible that many folks here are tapped out and simply can’t buy every great light that comes out. We’re awash in superb lights!

I wish Sofirn all the best, as they make quality lights for lower prices than the big brands. Surely the SP70 puts them firmly in league with them as it competes well against some lights more than twice its price. Making the head larger for a deeper/larger reflector just seems unwise as it will force the price to go up and make the light larger and heavier. Improving the existing host with BLF firmware is the only major thing I would change, though I’d probably choose a smooth reflector here despite it’s irrelevance.

RobAllen

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DB Custom already mentioned a good point about C8G. Unless xhp35 is driven to max it doesn’t out throw a Fet xplhi. So you will get a wider hot spot, better regulation and worse throw. Which might still be worth it depending on what you need

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Definitely am interested in seeing how this light turns out, but have 2 questions:

1) is the goal with the driver to achieve solid regulated output, or to simply achieve the max lumens possible? Personally I prefer a good boost driver as opposed to fet.

2) any idea how long it will take the details for this light to be finalized and then ready to order? Weeks, months, hopefully not years, etc.

thanks!

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Flashlight enthusiast wrote:
Definitely am interested in seeing how this light turns out, but have 2 questions:

1) is the goal with the driver to achieve solid regulated output, or to simply achieve the max lumens possible? Personally I prefer a good boost driver as opposed to fet.

2) any idea how long it will take the details for this light to be finalized and then ready to order? Weeks, months, hopefully not years, etc. thanks!

1) --> see the OP: 

  • High yield MOSFET/FET (Infineon) for better output

This means a similar driver design, not boost. Regulated boost drivers at reasonable costs can't do high amps, so as said before, you may get 3500-4000 lumens at most as opposed to 8000+. Boost drivers require more advanced drivers, proper electronic design work, more $$$ parts, more risks, more testing, etc. Wuben T70 is a good example of a decent quality single cell boost XHP70.2 light that can get just over 4000 lumens, and you pay for that driver and all the R&D that went into it.

2) yeah, somewhere between weeks and years (smile - ok, I have no idea, not sure anyone does). All the past projects take longer than expected and typically are very unpredictable, but this one at least has a good start with some easy-to-achieve goals, comparatively with other projects, if we stay with a known driver design we know will run the firmware we want and drive this light.

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Tom E wrote:
1) --> see the OP: 
  • High yield MOSFET/FET (Infineon) for better output

This means a similar driver design, not boost. Regulated boost drivers at reasonable costs can't do high amps, so as said before, you may get 3500-4000 lumens at most as opposed to 8000+. Boost drivers require more advanced drivers, proper electronic design work, more $$$ parts, more risks, more testing, etc. Wuben T70 is a good example of a decent quality single cell boost XHP70.2 light that can get just over 4000 lumens, and you pay for that driver and all the R&D that went into it.

2) yeah, somewhere between weeks and years (smile - ok, I have no idea, not sure anyone does). All the past projects take longer than expected and typically are very unpredictable, but this one at least has a good start with some easy-to-achieve goals, comparatively with other projects, if we stay with a known driver design we know will run the firmware we want and drive this light.

I'm actually quite interested in the (probable) linear regulator that was pointed out on the SP70's driver. If the enthusiast community came across a good linear regulator that was designed for 6V+ instead of just abusing 7135s, that would be nice.

Also, I wouldn't oppose a price increase on the BLF version. Currently to get what I want, I have to mod an SP70 or L6. The SP70 would require spring bypasses and a new driver, at the very least, for me to be happy, and the same goes for the XHP70.2 L6. That still puts the price at/above $60, and that's if I don't replace the lens with AR or change the LED, or change the switch LEDs (for the L6, add them). 

EDC Rotation: ZL SC62 | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 
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Yep, I totally agree bout dumping the 7135's we dump on. They are continuously a problem - no true specs (obsoleted years ago, clones are undocumented), and we run them at higher voltages, etc. TA has a solution though using resistors, but we in general lack an understanding of the regulators, or other options., for example, for they would handle out high PWM rates and can we get low moon level output, etc.

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LED4Power has been doing this for a long time, even with 6V

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Tom E, you’re not the first I hear complaining about 7135s.

I wonder…could we as a community move on to some other solution?
I don’t mean specifically in this light. I mean some future generation of a standard BLF driver.

FET based drivers are said to be hard to do well. Though Lexel works on one now, he may succeed with it.
There are other stock regulators that we could choose though. F.e. Mike C, moderator007 have tried some powerful current-adjustable regulators, gchart played with non-adjustable as well.
That Mike C confugurations look like they would give most of the benefits of a FET based regulator while being much easier to implement.

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sofirn can purchase 4800mAh 21700 batteries which was from tesla.

I think they will be good to push the limit of XHP70.2 led

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These are very good batteries but they are a moderate discharge model so they won’t push the LED to the limit.

Take note that the positive poles on these cells are sunken, they won’t make contact in series unless you add a button top. Which is problematic because the positive poles are aluminium.

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Barry0892 wrote:
sofirn can purchase 4800mAh 21700 batteries which was from tesla.

I think they will be good to push the limit of XHP70.2 led

Does this mean the BLF edition will be 2×21700? Does Sofirn have an estimated time of arrival?

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Barry0892 wrote:
sofirn can purchase 4800mAh 21700 batteries which was from tesla. I think they will be good to push the limit of XHP70.2 led

I'm a bit confused about those 4.800mAh. Barry are you sure these come from Tesla? Can you please check if these cells are the original Sanyo NCR21700A 5.000mAh? These are also sold by Vapcell as Vapcell INR21700 5000mAh, see HKJ's test here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/63905

I agree with Agro that this battery is not considered as a classic high drain battery but a very good compromise between capacity and intermediate power drain (< 15A). Please have a look onto this comparison between this "Tesla battery" and the PLB-55A cell (to be found in Shockli IMR26650 5.500mAh or Keeppower 6.000mAh). As you can see there is no benefit in using the 21700 Tesla battery but only disadvantages due to less capacity and the need for an additional conductor between both batteries which again increases contact resistance and subsequently leads to additional voltage drop.

If you want to run the SP70 with maximum output, Samsung's 30T and 40T as well as Molicel's P42A are the best high drain batteries.

 

However, if Sofirn chose to offer the "Tesla battery" separately or in combination with C8G, it would be an intruiging option. Smile

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Agro wrote:
These are very good batteries but they are a moderate discharge model so they won’t push the LED to the limit.

Take note that the positive poles on these cells are sunken, they won’t make contact in series unless you add a button top. Which is problematic because the positive poles are aluminium.

Sofirn, read this. Don’t waste your time with Tesla battery. Too many problems and other good batteries are easy to source. If you were experienced battery company then maybe.

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the batteries from Tesla were made by Panasonic 5000mAh

I didn’t know they are not good enough as HD batteries

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Barry, please can you try to get in touch with Power Long Battery Technology Co. Ltd in Dongguan, China?

https://www.powerlongbattery.com/about-us

They offer the best 26650 batteries available so far. If Sofirn were able to source PLB-55A cells it would be really great. These cells provide more power than Sofirn's new 26650 HD cells.

 

If you want to go for 21700 batteries (personally, I'd really appreciate this approach), please try to get cells like Molicel P42A or Samsung 40T for these should have the best compromise between high drain (> 15A) and capacity. Samsung's 30T would not make much sense for it has not much capacity and its benefit over the 40T would only last some seconds with a fresh, fully charged cell.

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Something interesting that caught my attention this morning...

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67277

 

So, there actually is a custom version of Andúril that supports both e-switch and the tailclicky forward switch. If we want to have Andúril on Sofirn's SP70 BLF edition, this custom version might be the right thing as flashing the standard Andúril would normally sacrifice the momentary turbo and mode memory function of the tailclicky. Maybe Toykeeper can share with us her thoughts about it. Wink

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Something interesting that caught my attention this morning…


http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67277


 


So, there actually is a custom version of Andúril that supports both e-switch and the tailclicky forward switch. If we want to have Andúril on Sofirn’s SP70 BLF edition, this custom version might be the right thing as flashing the standard Andúril would normally sacrifice the momentary turbo and mode memory function of the tailclicky. Maybe Toykeeper can share with us her thoughts about it. Wink

Yes, more Anduril please!

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Just good a quick and helpful answer from Toykeeper that I would like to include here:

 

ToyKeeper wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:

What custom version of Andúril is it that supports both e-switch and tailclicky forward switch at the same time? Can you please guide me to the right version? Maybe this one could be worthwhile to use in the Sofirn SP70 BLF edition?

#define START_AT_MEMORIZED_LEVEL That's all. This was added in rev 292 in 2017.
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Barry, please can you try to get in touch with Power Long Battery Technology Co. Ltd in Dongguan, China?


https://www.powerlongbattery.com/about-us


They offer the best 26650 batteries available so far. If Sofirn were able to source PLB-55A cells it would be really great. These cells provide more power than Sofirn’s new 26650 HD cells.


 


If you want to go for 21700 batteries (personally, I’d really appreciate this approach), please try to get cells like Molicel P42A or Samsung 40T for these should have the best compromise between high drain (> 15A) and capacity. Samsung’s 30T would not make much sense for it has not much capacity and its benefit over the 40T would only last some seconds with a fresh, fully charged cell.

will contact them. Is there any test of their batteries?

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Barry0892 wrote:

[...] will contact them. Is there any test of their batteries?

That's great news. I'm sure many customers will be interested in buying these cells (maybe even more if offered on Amazon US/AU/DE, too).

As a reference, please have a look onto Henrik's review of the Shockli IMR26650 5500mAh which uses the PLB-55A cell from Power Long Battery.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/53998

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Agro wrote:
Tom E, you're not the first I hear complaining about 7135s. I wonder...could we as a community move on to some other solution? I don't mean specifically in this light. I mean some future generation of a standard BLF driver. FET based drivers are said to be hard to do well. Though Lexel works on one now, he may succeed with it. There are other stock regulators that we could choose though. F.e. "Mike C":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/63771, "moderator007":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58796 have tried some powerful current-adjustable regulators, "gchart":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66272 played with non-adjustable as well. That Mike C confugurations look like they would give most of the benefits of a FET based regulator while being much easier to implement.

For my super high amp 6V lights, I've converted over to only FET. The smooth ramping is a little jumpy at the low levels, but at least works. I can fry a 7135 in seconds on those lights. Sorry, haven't kept up with the new designs, but very interested in these alternate solutions. Of course what I want is smooth ramping capability on these other designs, and smooth transition to the full FET. Of course high PWM is a must, and no PWM preferred.

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