Current Draw / Battery Type for these (mostly Sofirn) lights?

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amishbill
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Current Draw / Battery Type for these (mostly Sofirn) lights?

A buddy and I have a mix of lights on the way, and I expect I’m going to need a bunch of batteries. The default for most everything seems to be 'get samsung 30Q'. Safe defaults are good, but I'd like to know a little more.

The challenge… I’m having difficulty finding details on the current draw and top type I need to cover on most of them. What I've found is listed below.

Can I get a reality check on what I have and ideas for the blank spots? The ones I have already (like the A6/S1 and SP31) seem perfectly happy with flat top cells, but some of these specify button top. Can I assume that you can use buttons anywhere flats work, or are some lights better with flat tops and some with buttons?

size type light Draw lumen

14500 ? sp10a ? 500
18650 ? sc31 2 560
18650 flat sp31 3 1200
18650 ? sp32 ? 1000
18650 ? sp36 ? 6000
18650 ? Lt1 ? ?
18650 ? Q8 21 5000
18650 flat BLF A6 ? 1600
18650 flat Astrolux S1 5 1600
21700 flat C8F 9-10 1500
26650 ? Sp33 5.8 2500

 

****

updated based on replies

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Edited by: amishbill on 07/01/2019 - 13:16
Lightbringer
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Buttontops add some resistance vs flattops, so I use FTs extensively unless the light needs BTs.

Anything with a spring on the driver side can take a FT, whereas anything with just a flat contact will need a BT.

 

Figure 1000lm is about 3A, so any decent cell that can handle that would work. A low-stress light like the SC31 would do better with a higher-capacity cell for longer runtime, vs a high-strung light that needs to be higher-drain at the expense of capacity.

So yeah, you can just get 30Qs all around, BTs for those that need ‘em (eg, the Q8), and FTs for the rest.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

amishbill
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I saw a review of a lightly enhanced Q8 that pulled almost 21 amps. Rounding that up to 25 and dividing by 3, it looks like no less than 8 amp continuous per cell will feed the SP36 nicely.

Maybe three LG MJ1 18650 3500mAh 10A – Button Top Battery to gain a little runtime over the default Samsung 30Q 18650 3000mAh 15A – Button Top Battery?

(options based on what I have have tomorrow from 18650batterystore if I order in the very near future)

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Funtastic
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I found the SP36 runs very hot on Turbo so if you’re not going to use on max much then the LG’s will be fine. By using 10A cells I had a reduction of 600 lumens vs the 30Q’s. My 30Q’s have a solder blob added so you’ll get less gain using button tops.

You may get more output if you use the Sanyo NCR18650GA’s instead of the LG’s since the positive end is slightly risen which acts as a button top. Less resistance without an added button top

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

amishbill
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Are there any references to which flat tops extend a little above the insulator rim instead of being flush with or slightly below?

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

d_t_a
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Based from my own measurements, using clamp ammeter to measure tailcap current (so the current measurement is without the tailcap factored in)

Sofirn SP31 v2.0, current draw is around 3.0 Amps (just slightly higher than the Convoy S2+ 7135×8 which draws ~2.7-2.8 Amps)

BLF A6 / Astrolux S1 (stock, not yet spring-bypassed), current draw is around 5+ Amps with a fully-charged high-drain battery (eg. VTC6 or 30Q)

Sofirn C8F 21700 draws around 9-10 Amps (with a high-drain freshly-charged battery). Some earlier samples only draw 7-8 Amps, resulting in lower brightness (I think this was the earliest batch of C8F-21700 where people complained the C8F-21700 being less bright than the earlier C8F-18650 version)

Sofirn SP33 draws around 6 Amps.

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amishbill wrote:
Are there any references to which flat tops extend a little above the insulator rim instead of being flush with or slightly below?

Using lygte I can deduce the ones with raised flat tops. So much info on his site – at bottom of listing there is SB (Small Buttontop), LB (Large Buttontop), and Flat. On the individual review page there are pictures.

I’ve found the 30Q is an excellent all around performer, having a raised flat top (best of both worlds) and is quite economical. The same goes for the NCR18650GA (Sanyo @ 10 Amps). As for higher drain requirements, I found the Sony VTC5A very good at delivering the amps (Low IR, 35A discharge “stated”), and the newer VTC6 (30 A) although more expensive.

The Sofirn lights often are available with their battery, and is usually a very good cell for a few dollars more. Other lights I try to find the optimum cell for the draw and the runtime. Most will rarely be pushed to the max often, so having 3000+ capacity is more relevant. And then the cost comes in proportion to the light itself.

So in a nutshell, I stick with a cell to a particular light, may feel adventurous sometimes and change a set, but usually return to my original dedicated battery.

P.S. Haven’t tried any LGs, kept with Sam’s, Sanyo and Efest. Also some Vapcells but as there seems to be problem with the manufacturer changing the cell but keeping the same label – not the advertised values (still good performer, but not a heavyweight).

amishbill
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Wait… so you’re saying that the 30Q has a slightly raised flat top like the Sanyo NCR18650GA

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Sidney Stratton
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@amishbill;
Strangely my flat top 30Qs that I purchased from BangGood has raised flat tops. Bought about a year and half ago. Never questioned this feature till some time ago I noticed from some pics they are not always as such. Would BangGood have them re-wrapped? They have the specs (25 – 35 mohms, 3000 mAh).

Anyways, I had purchased some 35E button tops and didn’t always fit in some lights; very tight diameter wise, too much compression indented the bottom. So I now remove the insulating ring from flat tops, usually made of paper, from the top and that just makes for the raised feature (as in the Q8 or the Sofirn SP36). The outer heatshrink can be gently pried to release this paper washer. A plastic spudger or whatever – not anything metalic. A bit of heat and the wrap returns to a normal enclosure, thus enabling a insulating barrier.
Naturally you can’t have that wrap material deteriorate, or poof!

d_t_a
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Sidney Stratton wrote:
@amishbill;
Strangely my flat top 30Qs that I purchased from BangGood has raised flat tops. Bought about a year and half ago. Never questioned this feature till some time ago I noticed from some pics they are not always as such. Would BangGood have them re-wrapped? They have the specs (25 – 35 mohms, 3000 mAh).

Anyways, I had purchased some 35E button tops and didn’t always fit in some lights (very tight diameter wise, too much compression indented the bottom. So I now remove the insulating ring from flat tops, usually made of paper, from the top and that just makes for the raised feature (as in the Q8 or the Sofirn SP36). The outer heatshrink can be gently pried to release this paper washer. A plastic spudger or whatever – not anything metalic. A bit of heat and the wrap returns to a normal enclosure, thus enabling a insulating barrier.
Naturally you can’t have that wrap material deteriorate, or poof!

Maybe you’re referring to button-top 30Qs? I tried to order the button-top 30Q from Banggood several times before, (when there was available shipping option), but all of them got cancelled due to no shipping method (now it just says “no shipping method” for bare batteries).

The only 30Qs I got from Banggood are the ones from “BLF A6 + 30Q” or “Astrolux S42 + 30Q” (which I’ve ordered a few times, just to get the Samsung 30Q battery, then sell off the extra flashlights which I didn’t need). So far the 30Qs included in the BLF A6 and Astrolux S42 were flat-top 30Qs.

Now that the Astrolux MF01S has a button-top 30Q bundle option, I also tried ordering that. Hopefully I’ll finally be able to get hold of the button-top 30Qs from Banggood delivered properly…

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I have several with Flat tops and several more with Button tops.
At first I used to buy battery’s to suit. But with 30+day deliveries.
I just got a 50 pack of 9×3 magnets from Bangood. $9.48 v-below-v.
Then just use mainly flat tops. adding a magnet if needed.
After trying both button top and flat with Magnet in same torch,
I can’t see any difference in beam or consumption.

amishbill
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Macka17 wrote:

Then just use mainly flat tops. adding a magnet if needed.
….

A buddy and I discussed this method when we were looking for batteries. For us, we ruled out that option for safety reasons. The lights we wanted to put these batteries in (Sky Ray King, Sofirn SP36, Q8) rotated down onto the batteries instead of straight compression. I was afraid that the contact in the head, while sliding over the tops of the batteries, would push the magnets to the side where they could possibly short against the battery case.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

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Sidney Stratton wrote:

I've found the 30Q is an excellent all around performer, having a raised flat top …

I've never seen a 30Q cell with raised flat top, including the ones from Malaysia (SDIEM). So beware, I can smell the stench from here.

If you could post some good close up pictures of the top/anode that would help.

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@Macka17;
You can’t use magnets with the Q8 or the SP36

@d_t_a;
I know the difference between flat and button tops. If you had read my post thoroughly, I did state I had purchased 35E button tops. Your country has issues with LiIon batteries. In Canada they are prohibited to ship by air unless in OEM device. Strangely, Aliya store ships; perhaps they found a workaround?

@Barkuti;
I doubt they are the real McCoy. They do their job in my Q8. I’m getting 21 Amps at tail and the fit is ok. ‘Probably good copies or actual Sams but an added flat top welded over. Hence the little higher IR (real 30Qs are in the 20 to 30 mohms) . Don’t buy batteries from China. There is a reason they are not accepted at Canadian Border Services Agency – shady cells.
On that note, there was some debate about BangGood selling legit or fakes. They may have the best intentions, but their supplier may pass some counterfeits. I distrust any nation whose integrity is compromised with “good enough” philosophy, poor communication skills, and just outright plagiarism / piracy. I’ve had my share of issues with all chinese vendors.

But guys, you missed my point. Button tops when needed, I reduce the top wrap. Soldering a blob may be a compromise, but adding heat to the anode creates dendrites and that reduces the current capacity. It also screws up the homogeneity of the electrolyte – bad cell. And then you have to understand the casing is 1020 steel and is solderable with the proper flux to which you must clean thoroughly else corrosion in long term.

So my take to amishbill’s original post, get flat top cells with a good capacity and somewhat high current (> 15 amps*) for all around performance. For the occasional button top necessity, order a few (say 4 + 3 for the Q8 / SP36) that are dedicated to such lights. Or try your hand at removing the insulating paper washer.

  • It is not as you will draw 15 amps, but the lower Internal Resistance helps for those bursts of high demand.

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Made this video with the help of a friend some time ago:

 

 

Solder blobbed with Bi50Pb32Sn18 (Rose's Metal variant).

Other than this, you can actually buy good stuff in China. Just don't go to the bad merchants, believe right and select the right ones.

The li-ion thing is overall not consumer regulated, these are industrial products and it reflects in li-ion OEM's hesitation (all of them as a whole, not just the big 4, there are many more) to openly sell such to crybaby consumers.

People who knows their sheesh does not need governments to mess with it.

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@barkuti;
Nice blobs, quick and clean.

And what is the flux? Rose’s metal has a low, low melting point (94º to 98º C). Now imagine some fellow using the the standard 63/37 tin/lead alloy which melts at 183º (double of your alloy) and using a plumber’s acid flux.
I stand by what I said.
You may have the knowledge and materials to make a good solder blob, but it is not a commoner’s ability.

Quote:
Other than this, you can actually buy good stuff in China. Just don’t go to the bad merchants, believe right and select the right ones.

I’m referring to the battery merchants. And how is a person to believe right?
I still do and will buy Chinese flashlights, name brands (Sofirn, Lumintop, JKK, and others). I may look at those cheap / knock-offs; no intent on buying other than as hosts.

As I have found a merchant in US that ships Canada at a reasonable price within a week to my door, I’m out of these Asian vendors. My share of problems includes batteries stopped at customs, shipment not getting approval from destination country (I suppose they fill the declaration invoice which is denied), and a lengthy bout with Neal (4 months) sending a 26980 battery (yes, a special sized cell of some 6000 mAh and low 10 to 20 mohm IR) which soured my relationship with him.

And as I had stated, when Sofirn offers an included battery with the light, I have no problems taking the offer. Their cells are very satisfactory for the given flashlight. And has no problems at customs.

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Sidney Stratton wrote:

And what is the flux? Rose's metal has a low, low melting point (94º to 98º C). Now imagine some fellow using the the standard 63/37 tin/lead alloy which melts at 183º (double of your alloy) and using a plumber's acid flux.
I stand by what I said.
You may have the knowledge and materials to make a good solder blob, but it is not a commoner's ability.

 

 

Goot Super Soldering Flux, you can clearly see the recipe in the above shot. LOL

Discontinued, yet the same recipe is available by other brands (and cheaper):

Removes rust from steel super easy, and oxidizes it quite fast when hot. Of course this is no problem at all, I've soldered cells with translucent wraps and when I've left the drop of flux in its entirety over the place remainings permeate under the wrap causing superficial rust marks. Nothing major.

Of course you can spread the flux with your finger, removing any excess like I do in the video. The stuff is itching, beware of skin cuts. Wink

Sidney Stratton wrote:

Myself wrote:
Other than this, you can actually buy good stuff in China. Just don't go to the bad merchants, believe right and select the right ones.

I'm referring to the battery merchants. And how is a person to believe right?

You already believe in many things, good and bad. To believe, mind programming is required. This can be achieved by inducing an altered state of the mind to tune our brain predominantly into a Theta brain wave. It's like a very relaxed (but conscious) state of the mind where you can access the full power of your mind (and being). By reprogramming our minds virtually anything is possible, however this doesn't means it is an easy thing to achieve, namely for the layman in these matters. Feelings play a key role concerning what one can achieve or not.

Esentially, this is the same stuff masters like Jesus addressed in its day, and is now a powerful movement in, for example, the ThetaHealing Technique (I'm undergoing healing with and really wish to fix my life enough to become a master at it some day).

 

Sat, 08/31/2019 - 05:38