Test/review of Vapcell INR16340 800mAh (White)

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toobadorz
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SKV89 wrote:
I bought 4 pieces of the Vapcell 16340 tested in post #22. You cannot expect 100% consistency. Even the famous Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA I tested varies from 3,375mah to 3,631mah but it is still my all time favorite high capacity 18650 because other high capacities like the Samsung 36G rated at 3,600mah measures between 3,328mah to 3,463mah out of the 5 I bought. It is common for batteries to measure much lower than rated capacity and wide variations between the same batch of cells. There are a few exceptions like the Acebeam 16340, Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah that consistently measure a good amount more than the label.

I do not believe the recent batch of Vapcell 16340 I bought is any worse than the batch HKJ tested. Sure there’s inconsistencies just like with any other batteries.

NCR18650GA is certainly a good cell, but those available in the retail market are of different batches and more importantly, different ranks/grades. But their consistency are usually pretty good in a single purchase, as long as the date of manufacturing and rank are the same. This is the common fact you can usually expect when buying those tier-1 products (from a trustworthy retailer, of course). Samsung 36G can be a poor counter-example here, because those 36G available in the retail market are almost early production samples made years ago, not mature products at all.


My test results are shared simply to indicate that although these Vapcell 16340’s currently the best choice, one cannot always expect as good performance as others, and the difference within a single purchase can be as large as ~15% or more (my worst = ~660mAh@5A, my best = ~780mAh@5A). But even the worst one is still better than other 16340’s, so… Silly

Barkuti
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SKV89 wrote:
… Even the famous Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA I tested varies from 3,375mah to 3,631mah but it is still my all time favorite high capacity 18650 because other high capacities like the Samsung 36G rated at 3,600mah measures between 3,328mah to 3,463mah out of the 5 I bought. It is common for batteries to measure much lower than rated capacity and wide variations between the same batch of cells. …

The 36G is not rated 3600mAh, but 3350mAh (check “nominal capacity” in HKJ's review).

If were to choose a cell for battery pack assembly given those terrible consistency figures you provide, I'd go with the 36G.

It is common for batteries to measure much lower? Piss off with that. If we want this to end we must tell manufacturers and mainly rewrappers to @#$% off and start doing things as the Lord commands.

Do you realize how much effort it can take to build a big battery pack if you can't rely on excellent cell consistency? A lot more than if you can, of course. I even know the percentile measuring differences among my Lii-500 rails, just in case I were to need it. Measuring and binning a big pack involves time, effort and money.

SKV89
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toobadorz, I only buy from reputable sources like MTNelectronics, Illumn.com, imrbatteries, 18650batterystore.com. The biggest variation I’ve seen within the same batch is 3,375mah to 3,557mah from a sample size of 4 cells. Currently Illumn.com sells the BEST NCR18650GA batch I’ve ever seen and it ranged from 3,540 to 3,631. It is incredible and is definitely the highest capacity 18650 in existence. Your Vapcell 16340 tested at 660mah is pretty poor. The highest Acebeam 16340 550mah I measured was 657mah and it is a higher current cell. I see a much more noticeable difference in output when used in FET driver, so I stock up on both the Vapcell and Acebeam and use them depending on the the light.

Barkuti,
The Samsung 36g is rated as 3,600mah everywhere. Besides HKJ, no where online do I see it rated at 3,350mah
https://www.18650batterystore.com/18650-p/samsung-36g.htm
https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-36g-18650-3600mah-10a-battery/
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-INR-18650-36G-3600mAh-10A-Rechargeable-High-Drain-Flat-Top-Vape-Battery-2-Pack/607352346

Also, I’m not promoting the acceptance of manufacturers overrating their cells or accepting overly high variances. However, I tested between 100 to 200 cells and that is just what I see. I don’t expect perfect consistency because it is not realistic although it is not impossible as I’ve seen some pretty consistent cells. Here are the most consistent cells I’ve seen:

Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah measured at 5991, 5971, 5948, 6001
Acebeam 21700 5100mah protected measured at 4992, 4922, 5008
Sony VTC6 3100mah (same batch from Illumn) measured at 3098, 3142, 3124, 3106, 3109, 3143, 3129, 3109
Keeppower VTC6 3100mah measured at 3056, 3080, 3073, 3043
Sony VTC6 3100mah (from Hakelite) measured at 3175, 3206, 3220, 3188
Molicel P26A 2600mah (first 2 from Vapcell, 2nd 2 from Illumn) measured at 2704, 2729, 2675, 2694

Barkuti
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Are all those measurements strictly obtained in the same conditions SKV89? Same device and/or channel, I mean.

 

Because no Samsung INR18650-36G datasheet I found yet, no further comments. But, for example, many consider the Samsung INR18650-35E a 3500mAh cell, but that is not what its datasheet says. It says “Standard Discharge Capacity (0.2C, 2.65V) ≥ 3350mAh” and “Rated Discharge Capacity” (1C, 2.65V) ≥ 3250mAh”.

I can understand many may consider the NCR18650GA the best 18650 high capacity cell, but its price is also a bit higher. On the other hand, relatively (2008+?) modern Samsung cells are extremely lifespan resilient. I have a few laptop pack recycled 26C cells still clocking ≈2200+mAh. I like this.

SKV89
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Yep, same conditions. I’ve retested many of them on different channels in the past to confirm consistency between channels and found them extremely consistent. NCR18650GA is a bit more expensive but they are the best high capacity cells in existence that I’ve tested. The VTC6 and P26A are the best all rounders. Regarding Samsung 18650, I never liked any of them. Their 21700 40T and 30T are good cells though.

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I don’t see much of a point in buying the GA instead of 30Q or VTC6. Those extra mAh only come in play at the end of the battery’s life, usually below 3.5 volts. In flashlight applications you are most probably going to charge the battery before that anyway, unless if you’re in the woods and have no power AND you’re using a low-power device.
For high-power applications I much prefer the higher average voltage that the 30Q and especially the VTC6 provides.

toobadorz
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SKV89 wrote:
toobadorz, I only buy from reputable sources like MTNelectronics, Illumn.com, imrbatteries, 18650batterystore.com. The biggest variation I’ve seen within the same batch is 3,375mah to 3,557mah from a sample size of 4 cells. Currently Illumn.com sells the BEST NCR18650GA batch I’ve ever seen and it ranged from 3,540 to 3,631. It is incredible and is definitely the highest capacity 18650 in existence. Your Vapcell 16340 tested at 660mah is pretty poor. The highest Acebeam 16340 550mah I measured was 657mah and it is a higher current cell. I see a much more noticeable difference in output when used in FET driver, so I stock up on both the Vapcell and Acebeam and use them depending on the the light.

We all know that the manufacturers sell their best (performance/consistency) cells to their top customers, and those seen in the retail market are mostly of lower grades, with worse consistency. However, for NCR18650GA, I would say 3,375mah to 3,557mah within the same batch is not acceptable at all. You may check whether their date of manufacturing and rank are all the same. The sites you mentioned are probably trustworthy, but they usually have no responsibility for delivering cells of the same date/rank. But you may still see the retail cells getting better over years, as the manufacturer continues to improve their process.


Also, it will be better if you state clearly regarding the discharge current and cut-off voltage when measuring capacity. 0.2C vs. 1C, 2.5V vs. 3.0V cut-off discharges are totally different stories. It will be even better if the discharge curves can be shared, since the inconsistencies can be easily observed as the curves don’t quite match, even when the cells end up with similar capacities.

SKV89 wrote:

Also, I’m not promoting the acceptance of manufacturers overrating their cells or accepting overly high variances. However, I tested between 100 to 200 cells and that is just what I see. I don’t expect perfect consistency because it is not realistic although it is not impossible as I’ve seen some pretty consistent cells. Here are the most consistent cells I’ve seen:

Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah measured at 5991, 5971, 5948, 6001
Acebeam 21700 5100mah protected measured at 4992, 4922, 5008
Sony VTC6 3100mah (same batch from Illumn) measured at 3098, 3142, 3124, 3106, 3109, 3143, 3129, 3109
Keeppower VTC6 3100mah measured at 3056, 3080, 3073, 3043
Sony VTC6 3100mah (from Hakelite) measured at 3175, 3206, 3220, 3188
Molicel P26A 2600mah (first 2 from Vapcell, 2nd 2 from Illumn) measured at 2704, 2729, 2675, 2694

LG M50 / M50T (= ACEBEAM 21700), VTC6, P26A usually have pretty good consistency as long as they are in the same box and shipped directly from the manufacturer. But, as always, you cannot expect the same consistency when they are from different batches. Look at the following P26A’s, which I bought from Vapcell at once.

Since NPE guarantees the P26A cells are all of grade A, their differences are probably because MOLICEL is continuing tweaking their products, and these samples are of different batches (but Vapcell mixed them up and sold them to me Facepalm ).


P28A cells of the same batch, grade A:

Pretty good consistency.


Samsung 25S of the same batch:

Excellent consistency.


Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah are both PLB INR26650-55A. When cells of this model are sourced from PLB directly with the same batch, they are usually pretty consistent. But they still show ~5% difference among different batches. I’m saying so because I have been using this cell since 2016, and mine came with PLB original shrinking tubes, so I can easily identify their date of manufacturing and batch id.


Say, most of the earliest 2016 samples have more than 6000mAh, however their voltage are usually a bit lower. Some 2018 samples are of lower capacity (~5700mAh), with average capacity. The latest 2019 samples have ~5900mAh and good voltage. But that’s just what I have, maybe others can have better samples.

Barkuti
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toobadorz, would you please edit your previous post and add a width option prefix to your images? For example,

!https://i.imgur.com/qGBxEse.png!

turns into

!{width:70%}https://i.imgur.com/qGBxEse.png!

if set at a 70% relative width.

Right now it breaks havoc in small resolution screen devices (smartphones and such).

Thanks.

toobadorz
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Done, sorry for that Silly

vapcell Dennis
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toobadorz wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
toobadorz, I only buy from reputable sources like MTNelectronics, Illumn.com, imrbatteries, 18650batterystore.com. The biggest variation I’ve seen within the same batch is 3,375mah to 3,557mah from a sample size of 4 cells. Currently Illumn.com sells the BEST NCR18650GA batch I’ve ever seen and it ranged from 3,540 to 3,631. It is incredible and is definitely the highest capacity 18650 in existence. Your Vapcell 16340 tested at 660mah is pretty poor. The highest Acebeam 16340 550mah I measured was 657mah and it is a higher current cell. I see a much more noticeable difference in output when used in FET driver, so I stock up on both the Vapcell and Acebeam and use them depending on the the light.

We all know that the manufacturers sell their best (performance/consistency) cells to their top customers, and those seen in the retail market are mostly of lower grades, with worse consistency. However, for NCR18650GA, I would say 3,375mah to 3,557mah within the same batch is not acceptable at all. You may check whether their date of manufacturing and rank are all the same. The sites you mentioned are probably trustworthy, but they usually have no responsibility for delivering cells of the same date/rank. But you may still see the retail cells getting better over years, as the manufacturer continues to improve their process.


Also, it will be better if you state clearly regarding the discharge current and cut-off voltage when measuring capacity. 0.2C vs. 1C, 2.5V vs. 3.0V cut-off discharges are totally different stories. It will be even better if the discharge curves can be shared, since the inconsistencies can be easily observed as the curves don’t quite match, even when the cells end up with similar capacities.

SKV89 wrote:

Also, I’m not promoting the acceptance of manufacturers overrating their cells or accepting overly high variances. However, I tested between 100 to 200 cells and that is just what I see. I don’t expect perfect consistency because it is not realistic although it is not impossible as I’ve seen some pretty consistent cells. Here are the most consistent cells I’ve seen:

Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah measured at 5991, 5971, 5948, 6001
Acebeam 21700 5100mah protected measured at 4992, 4922, 5008
Sony VTC6 3100mah (same batch from Illumn) measured at 3098, 3142, 3124, 3106, 3109, 3143, 3129, 3109
Keeppower VTC6 3100mah measured at 3056, 3080, 3073, 3043
Sony VTC6 3100mah (from Hakelite) measured at 3175, 3206, 3220, 3188
Molicel P26A 2600mah (first 2 from Vapcell, 2nd 2 from Illumn) measured at 2704, 2729, 2675, 2694

LG M50 / M50T (= ACEBEAM 21700), VTC6, P26A usually have pretty good consistency as long as they are in the same box and shipped directly from the manufacturer. But, as always, you cannot expect the same consistency when they are from different batches. Look at the following P26A’s, which I bought from Vapcell at once.

Since NPE guarantees the P26A cells are all of grade A, their differences are probably because MOLICEL is continuing tweaking their products, and these samples are of different batches (but Vapcell mixed them up and sold them to me Facepalm ).


P28A cells of the same batch, grade A:

Pretty good consistency.


Samsung 25S of the same batch:

Excellent consistency.


Shockli 5500mah and Vapcell 5500mah are both PLB INR26650-55A. When cells of this model are sourced from PLB directly with the same batch, they are usually pretty consistent. But they still show ~5% difference among different batches. I’m saying so because I have been using this cell since 2016, and mine came with PLB original shrinking tubes, so I can easily identify their date of manufacturing and batch id.


Say, most of the earliest 2016 samples have more than 6000mAh, however their voltage are usually a bit lower. Some 2018 samples are of lower capacity (~5700mAh), with average capacity. The latest 2019 samples have ~5900mAh and good voltage. But that’s just what I have, maybe others can have better samples.

Dear toobadorz

I’m sorry to disappoint you with your shopping experience.

Which salesman did you buy it from? We should be able to solve it better.

toobadorz
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vapcell Dennis wrote:

Dear toobadorz

I’m sorry to disappoint you with your shopping experience.

Which salesman did you buy it from? We should be able to solve it better.


Hello Dennis, if you mean those P26A’s I got, they were actually purchased directly from your people (Vapcell). Given that they were all grade A and demonstrated capacities larger than expectation (2600mAh), I would say they were good high current cells.


The problem is, after re-wrapping it may be difficult for even your people to tell the actual batch id of them, thus the cells shipped may be a mixed result from different batches. If you are able to add the batch id or something equivalent and tell your people to ensure the same id when shipping, that will be good.

vapcell Dennis
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toobadorz wrote:
vapcell Dennis wrote:

Dear toobadorz

I’m sorry to disappoint you with your shopping experience.

Which salesman did you buy it from? We should be able to solve it better.


Hello Dennis, if you mean those P26A’s I got, they were actually purchased directly from your people (Vapcell). Given that they were all grade A and demonstrated capacities larger than expectation (2600mAh), I would say they were good high current cells.


The problem is, after re-wrapping it may be difficult for even your people to tell the actual batch id of them, thus the cells shipped may be a mixed result from different batches. If you are able to add the batch id or something equivalent and tell your people to ensure the same id when shipping, that will be good.

We buy a lot of P26A, the same batch of the same performance, if the delivery to customers is also a batch.

Only tails may have several batches.

If the customer is strict, please let us know

Normally, vape batteries can be used.

For batteries, strict consistency is required

undertherain
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I purchased 12 of these batteries for 3 of my Netgear Arlo cameras (the first version that works with 4 non-rechargeable CR123s).
I thought I would do something nice while the 4 batteries discharge after a few days (as soon as they are inserted they are already 95%).
To recharge them I bought an XTAR VC4S.
Can you give me some advice?
Does anyone use them with Netgear Arlo?
What can I do?
Thanks!

It's raining... ///

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