TK's Emisar D4V2 review

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Nev
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ToyWrecker wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
TK, is there a chance you will release a basic Anduril or RampIOS with the imptoved active temperature regulation? I dont use the fancy modes in the majority of my Anduril lights and really like the simple UI in the original D4. With the upcoming release of the flashing kit, I think alot of users will be flashing their lights and Im sure a simple bare bone option would be very popular.
I haven't updated RampingIOS yet, but it should be relatively easy to do. I've been merging changes from Anduril into RampingIOS ever since it was first created, but it has been a while since the last update. More to the point though, I'm still hoping to make a thermal simulator so I can make bigger changes to the temperature regulation code and hopefully rewrite the whole thing. I'm still not happy with it, and it'd be really helpful if I don't have to spend several days testing after each change. At some point it'd also be nice to put in a multi-UI build system which compiles every UI for every supported device. Then people could just mix and match hardware and software as they please. There just hasn't been a lot of interest in other interfaces yet, so I haven't done much with them lately.

please don’t , there is nothing wrong with them ,they work just fine. 

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Nev it’s a new MCU, I see you are still crapping on every post. That isn’t new Smile

Nev
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contactcr wrote:
Nev it’s a new MCU, I see you are still crapping on every post. That isn’t new Smile

I’m not crapping on every post as (you keep pointing out again ) that’s not new either ,
But bless you for keep commenting on my posts ,
I’m asking for it not to be tampered with because it’s a fine ui that actually does what it’s suppose to , by all means bling it up & call it something different , but there’s a saying that goes like this , IF ITS NOT BROKEN , DONT FIX IT.
I’d like it to stay as is because when /if a program key is made available then I might be able to put ramping v2 on my d18 ,because I haven’t got a spare £100+ to buy another d18 that may or may not work properly in the thermal department ,I’m not rich enough to take the risk.
There ,I haven’t mentioned the A word because I know that upsets you , sometimes I wish people were brave enough to speak out when there’s a problem ,that’s how progress works. but unfortunately some people are to worried at upsetting people to speak the truth ,I’m sorry if you think I’m standing on your toes ,but I’m sure you will get over it, I’ll probly see you on my next post Big Smile , over & out.
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Tixx wrote:
BabyDoc wrote:

Then what about if you sell your light or give your light away. The next user would be vulnerable to the same danger and you might be liable.

I sell a lot of lights. This is also a concern I have. I don’t want this liability.

Yeah, this is something that in most countries isn’t covered by any blanket “As is, no warranty to fitness, fire hazard included…” statement. Seeing as this is not my only light with some combo of this UI that will turn itself on, I’ve taken them all and tossed them into no-mans land. I just don’t trust them and would not dream of passing them on for free, much less take money for them.

I’m amazed at the nonchalant attitude by some here. This isn’t rocket science, where somehow something got through in a huge complicated code base. The UI code is a handful of pages that would be an exercise for a first-year CS track student here at Stanford. A test harness with a programmable PS would suffice to thoroughly put the DUT through its paces.

There is no excuse that’s appropriate.

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Adhara wrote:
Tixx wrote:
BabyDoc wrote:

Then what about if you sell your light or give your light away. The next user would be vulnerable to the same danger and you might be liable.

I sell a lot of lights. This is also a concern I have. I don’t want this liability.

Yeah, this is something that in most countries isn’t covered by any blanket “As is, no warranty to fitness, fire hazard included…” statement. Seeing as this is not my only light with some combo of this UI that will turn itself on, I’ve taken them all and tossed them into no-mans land. I just don’t trust them and would not dream of passing them on for free, much less take money for them.

I’m amazed at the nonchalant attitude by some here. This isn’t rocket science, where somehow something got through in a huge complicated code base. The UI code is a handful of pages that would be an exercise for a first-year CS track student here at Stanford. A test harness with a programmable PS would suffice to thoroughly put the DUT through its paces.

There is no excuse that’s appropriate.

As far as I’m aware, this issue is only present on the D4V2, as it is the first with the new MCU. You seem to be responding with what I’d consider to be a little too much haste if you threw all your Anduril lights out over this.

The bug is not apparent unless the light is configured/set in a very specific mode (explained repeatedly and at length in this thread) and condition. Toykeeper does test the code and from what I can tell, she really does care to “do it right”. It is easy to see how this particular bug wasn’t caught. You have to have the light set in Muggle mode with a less than full battery and then leave it off for a full 15 minutes before you might notice it.

“Muggle mode” is something I’ve never cared to try, and I imagine that many here have little interest in it. It was included to give the flashlights a wider appeal. I don’t think she has been “nonchalant” in the least. I’ve seen her respond to these reports with humility and a serious tone. She puts many hours into developing this, and does so without any compensation, then she sticks around and puts up with all the silly questions/rude remarks/and ignorance as well. She is well regarded around here because she does so much for the community and because of her pleasant attitude.

I haven’t spoken to Hank personally, but I see his posts from time to time, and I have tried a few of his lights. They are high quality, low price, and enthusiast focused. He is always polite, and I’ve seen him be very accommodating to some of the members here. He is working to provide a solution for this issue, and I believe it will all work out.

I’d hate for either of these fine people to feel uncomfortable here because of the hostility in some of these posts.

I haven’t even received my light yet, but I expect it to be as awesome as everything else Toykeeper and Hank have been involved in creating. I purchased the tools to flash these newer style drivers because I wanted to flash the newer Anduril versions to this and other lights anyway, and if I feel comfortable enough with my abilities (haven’t tried the pogo pin style yet), I’d be happy to offer help to others that need to flash the fix for this issue.

Based on some of the talk around here from some of the alarmists though, I might need to get my lawyer to draft a solid disclaimer/waiver of liability if I am able to help. Wouldn’t want someone trying to sue me because they neglected to properly lock out their light that I helped them fix for free.

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Mistakes happen even with big corporations. Taking responsibility and limiting possible damages is all you can ask of anyone at this point. If this wasn’t such a niche product, I could imagine the Consumers’ Products Safety Commission becoming involved and demanding a recall on all of these effected lights. However, that’s not likely to happen unless somebody actually gets injured by one of these lights.

I hope that TK and Hank will do what needs to be done to warn every owner of these lights of the possible danger. Sending out emails with a more explicit danger warning along with a response request that the message was read should be the first step to preventing damages or injuries.

MascaratumB
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Hum…I’m starting to think that the “muggle” mode is not “muggle” after all! Flat Stare

Quote:
a Muggle […] lacks any sort of magical ability and was not born in a magical family.

Surely “this” muggle could be magical Big Smile

[REVIEWS] AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// XTAR: PB2 Charger /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// SKILHUNT: M150

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2 /// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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BabyDoc wrote:
Sending out emails with a more explicit danger warning along with a response request that the message was read should be the first step to preventing damages or injuries.

Potentially saves lifes.
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ZozzV6 wrote:
The programming key ordering will take too long so I made my own from scratch:

I like it! I may take a similar approach. I bought a bus pirate a few months ago, this will be perfect to try it out.

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My take on the situation:

  • Anduril is excellent. It is a full-featured extremely well designed UI. It’s a vast improvement over the days when us flashlight enthusiasts had to buy 5-mode clicky UIs or maybe pay to special order much cruder e-switch UIs. With Anduril, we have first-class firmware that’s every bit as good or better than that of the best premium lights, like Zebralight, Acebeam or Olight. And better yet, the firmware is usually open-source and readily available. Anduril is also quite complex. The version in the D4V2 is using the 1634 processor because it was too big for the ATiny85. I suspect that it is much, MUCH bigger than “a few pages of code”.

  • Toykeeper is a true treasure to our community. She provides her awesome firmware to the community for free and has a great attitude. She spends a lot of time here on the forum, which is a good thing for us.
  • TK’s firmware allows new small budget flashlight manufacturers to get in the game. The result is some of the most fun hobbyist flashlights around, such as the Emisar series, FW3A and Fireflies series… all at prices vastly cheaper than what “premium” flashlight manufacturers charge. Without her involvement and the dedication of these small manufacturers, these lights simply wouldn’t exist.

The muggle mode bug:

  • While the chances of the bug occurring are low, the consequences of it triggering could be high. Most purchasers of the D4V2 like “pocket rockets” and do not use muggle mode ever. As such, the bug should not be a problem for normal operation the way almost everyone actually uses the light. However, there is a risk of mis-clicking and accidentally entering muggle mode. There have been no reports of fire yet, however two customers reported serious damage to the head of the light from overheating.

  • Clearly this is a serious bug. It’s not good when a flashlight has a hidden “self-destruct” mode. It’s not surprising that some purchasers are angry. Even for those who know how to avoid the bug triggering, there’s a bit less peace of mind in knowing that if you misclick you could trigger it.
  • Hank and TK are true flashlight enthusiasts. They put their all into their lights and tested them in good faith. Unfortunately a bug sneaked through the testing plan. A mistake yes… but an understandable one and TK fully explained it. This isn’t like the CPF Cometa where the manufacturer in bad-faith substituted in a cheaper host at the last minute after testing was done.

The question then is what to do about the bug:

  • Number of lights affected – this bug only affects first run D4V2 lights sold before July 19. My guess is anywhere from 500-1000 lights worldwide only.
  • Recall? – International Outdoors is a small business. The D4V2’s list price is $45. Given the feature load and overall build quality, my guess is the profit margin is quite small. No more than $5-10 per light. If a recall is done and IO has to pay for international shipping, they could be looking at a colossal loss. Say shipping both ways ends up being $30 per light. Multiply that by 1,000 lights and you get the idea. A loss like that could potentially sink a small business. At the very least it might mean a hold on new models coming out or higher prices in the future to make up for possible future losses. Do we really want that to happen to International Outdoors and Emisar? … NO!
  • Send everyone a replacement? – same issue as a recall. Far too expensive for such a small manufacturer to absorb.
  • Send customers a warning – This I think is what I recommend. Send customers a warning of the issue via snailmail and email. Advise them not to use Muggle mode until the issue is fixed. The warning should be VERY strongly worded so it isn’t missed.
  • How to fix the bug – Their idea to offer flashing kits at costs seems reasonable given the small business nature of the manufacturer. That said, I know from own experience figuring out how to flash the ATiny85, it is not easy. I expect many owners are not going to be able to figure it out unless the kit comes with a USB-ASP fully preassembled and pre-wired to the pogo-pin thingy.
  • It may also help to involve members of this community – for those who aren’t comfortable reflashing themselves, having people around the world available to reflash for them would help. It would also save time and shipping back to China for service.
  • For the few who feel really strongly they can’t wait – well these people did receive a defective light. I think they should open a warranty claim with IO. I understand under IO’s stated warranty terms, they can ask for a replacement to be shipped within something like 10 days of receipt of their light, or if outside of the return period, send it back for repair within 3 months? I suspect the vast majority of purchasers will decide it’s not worth it to open a warranty claim, but for the few who do, I believe IO should honor the warranty.

If this bug happened with a big manfucturer like Fenix or Zebralight, I wouldn’t cut them as much slack. But I really like Emisar and TK and understand that it is a small business, and know that TK donates a lot of her time for free. I think they deserve more slack.

We on this forum also understand that first-run hobbyist lights often have problems. Over the years I’ve purchased around 15 Zebralights via pre-orders and over half had major issues out of the box. There’s simply a higher risk of defects with cutting edge products than there is with tried and true … especially when you pre-order or buy from an early production run.

For myself, I am satisfied that I know how to avoid triggering the bug and deem the chances of accidental triggering too remote to worry about. I have no concerns about carrying the light in my pocket without any lockout activated. I’ll likely get the flashing kit when it becomes available and will update the firmware then.

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I’m hoping a video will be made on the D4 going nuclear just to see what would happen when left unattended, it will obviously set fire to any combustibles close by , but will the actuall light melt & catch fire or will it act as a pipe bomb?

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This has already happened to 2 people. The head of the light suffered damage such as melted optic, damaged wiring, button popping out. No other significant damage occurred. The lights did not explode and no nearby combustibles caught fire.

That said, I suppose combustibles could catch fire if something flammable happened to be in front of the head of the light.

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So. It does not work. And my D4V2 which is not mine. Bought for a friend now always starting in ramp max. No mode memory left. I flashed many lights but this is something went wrong. The flashing does not run down once. The pop up window closed immediately and now I have a flashlight not working as it shoud and someone paid me for it to order to him. And I am here with this mess. Sorry guys cancel my offer. I don’t want to ruin anybody flashlight and now what should I do? Sick

I don’t know how TK and Hank want from unexperienced people in flashing to do this at first time.

Mark M
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Could there possibly be a short in your adapter? What command did you use?

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DB Custom wrote:
That’s right BurningPlayd0h, we as end users have responsibility. The very power source this light demand has it’s own level of end user responsibility, totally up to us to be safe within the parameters of the tools we purchase.

And now y’all know why I’ve never been eager to build lights on request. The sheer power of an unrestricted hot rod, especially a small quad, demands a respect I just don’t see coming from the thousands of new members. We once were a family of enthusiasts, pushing boundaries and making things happen. When we started getting manufactures to build “Custom Hot Rod” flashlights, well, our membership level flooded and the problems arose. And we have lost many a solid member in the process, tired of dealing with the inevitable growing pains.

If the early adopters learning phase were still present we would be golden, but the entitled masses are ruining the spoils. I feel it strongly myself, as one of the people that has pushed limits here for years. After spending so much time building test drivers and hot rod lights, and sharing the process openly so others could find the same results, it is very discouraging to see all the whining and carrying on over such a simple development as a bug. Y’all apparently never spent personal funds on Knucklehead PCB’s and the ensuing component list, or worked hours building experimental drivers for this forum only to have to buy the next revision and start over. Stuff happens, get over it.

I have never understood the desire for a built hot rod and a muggle mode to throttle it down for babies to play with… pretty sure I built one of the first 3000 lumen + quads, and it ran on a AA sized 14500 cell. It was promptly used to run a bear out of camp. Safe? What’s that?

If you buy a hot rod, you have the responsibility to control it. If that means Not using a mode, then don’t! All of the electronic switch flashlights exist in an open power environment, one tiny failure and they’re ON. I can’t count the number of glitchy e-switches I’ve replaced. If ultimate no brain safety is required, use an inherently safer light with a mechanical switch and either alkaline cells or protected Li-ion’s. No simple muggle mode is going to protect an idiot from himself.

+1 The more I think about it, the more sense Hank’s original desire to not have muggle mode on his lights makes more and more sense.

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I don’t think that’s the issue. The bug could have happened with a different portion of the UI besides muggle mode and we’d have the same problem we have now.

Muggle Mode by itself is fine. The only problem is the bug.

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You have reflashed many lights, but had no success here? I have no experience in mods,flashing, or soldering, yet I am told that with the proper equipment, it should be easy. I saw in your previous post that you put together your setup. I’ll bet that when Hank’s setup becomes available, you can successfully reflash this light. It’s too bad your friend may need to wait for his light.

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Mark M wrote:
Could there possibly be a short in your adapter? What command did you use?

Absolutely no shorts. Ichecked before first use multiple times. rechecked now. All wire connection goes to pins so no contact problem either. The light aux led turn red blinking when connect the pins.
This is what I used:
avrdude -c usbasp -p t1634 -u -Uflash:w:andurild4v2.hex
TK wrote this to use.
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Firelight2 wrote:
My take on the situation:

I like this well reasoned and thoughtful post.

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BabyDoc wrote:
You have reflashed many lights, but had no success here? I have no experience in mods,flashing, or soldering, yet I am told that with the proper equipment, it should be easy. I saw in your previous post that you put together your setup. I’ll bet that when Hank’s setup becomes available, you can successfully reflash this light. It’s too bad your friend may need to wait for his light.

I flashed more than 200 lights.
My “friend “ messaging me every day multiple times when he can pick up his light and he wanted to came wednesday. Now I can’t tell him to wait or I can’t pay him back and we are here with a worse light than it arrived. He is not a patient guy. So I am sure if I need to wait a month again he wil messaging me every day…. That is why I usually don’t buy lights for other people. If something goes wrong I need to do warranty things or repair lights or loose money. The pin connector is OK I don’t think another one do the job. Maybe some fuse settings missing from the line. Usually flashing scripts have fuses. I don’t know why this not have.
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Man Without Shadow wrote:
ZozzV6 wrote:
Mark M wrote:
Could there possibly be a short in your adapter? What command did you use?
Absolutely no shorts. Ichecked before first use multiple times. rechecked now. All wire connection goes to pins so no contact problem either. The light aux led turn red blinking when connect the pins. This is what I used: avrdude -c usbasp -p t1634 -u -Uflash:w:andurild4v2.hex TK wrote this to use.

specific name of the file is

anduril.2019-07-18.emisar-d4v2.hex


I know. Downloaded and renamed it to a shorter name. That name is in the command.
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ZozzV6 wrote:
Mark M wrote:
Could there possibly be a short in your adapter? What command did you use?
Absolutely no shorts. Ichecked before first use multiple times. rechecked now. All wire connection goes to pins so no contact problem either. The light aux led turn red blinking when connect the pins. This is what I used: avrdude -c usbasp -p t1634 -u -Uflash:w:andurild4v2.hex TK wrote this to use.

You said it starts at Max ramp, can you ramp down? TK stated that as long as the fuse values are not changed then there is little risk to brick. Have you tried reflashing? Maybe it is set to manual memory and it was on Max ramp, did you try 5h to switch to automatic memory?

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Mark M wrote:

You said it starts at Max ramp, can you ramp down? TK stated that as long as the fuse values are not changed then there is little risk to brick. Have you tried reflashing?


yes I can ramp down and seems other things work just it always start ramp max with short click. long click it starts moon then ramp up.
The flashing sequence not even completed once. I tried it many times and not doing the flashing sequence.
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Try changing it to automatic memory.

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Mark M wrote:
Try changing it to automatic memory.

changing what to automatic memory?
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While the flashlight is on click 5 times with you holding the last click, there are two types of memory now one is manual and one is automatic.

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Mark M wrote:
While the flashlight is on click 5 times with you holding the last click, there are two types of memory now one is manual and one is automatic.

I did not know this feature existed in Andúril. Thanks! It worked. Now I have mode memory but still have the bug firmware I think
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Mark M wrote:
You don’t have a physically defective product. You have software with a bug. There is nothing wrong with the hardware in your flashlight. It seems to be a real stretch to try and argue what you are. Do you attempt to send back your PC to the manufacturer anytime Windows has an error?
Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up OMG that’s the best reasoning I’ve seen. I remember back in the 90s when running the x86 and Pentiums that cost over $2k+, I spent more time trying to figure out DOS and Windows 3.1 crashes, bugs, hardware drivers not working, etc., than actually using my computer. Windows Xp was the first windows stable enough to use without constant fear of crashing and losing work, but it still had its fair share of problems. Apple IOS is probably the most bug free OS I’ve ever seen but it is developed by thousands of engineers and hundreds of billions of dollars, whereas Anduril is developed by a single non profit hobbyist and Emisar is likely not even a registered business operated by a single flashlight enthusiast from his home.
Mark M
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ZozzV6 wrote:
Mark M wrote:
While the flashlight is on click 5 times with you holding the last click, there are two types of memory now one is manual and one is automatic.
I did not know this feature existed in Andúril. Thanks! It worked. Now I have mode memory but still have the bug firmware I think

No problem, I think it was added with this flashlight release.

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