TK's Emisar D4V2 review

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candor
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Gratitude to Hank, TK, & DEL!

bquinlan
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ToyKeeper wrote:
bquinlan wrote:
Is there anything close to an off-the-shelf pogo-pin adapter that would work with the new D4?

Not yet. Sad

I’m really hoping someone will make these commercially available, but it hasn’t happened yet. I’m not sure why. Someone really needs to sell some reflashing kits.

Thank you so much for all of the time you’re putting into this thread, in addition to your amazing work on the UI!

Based on the responses to my post there are at least a few of us who want to buy a pogo-pin adapter. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that someone will take pity on us and build a few for us. Davie

It does seem that more lights are going the pad route for flashing. I can hope that there will eventually be some kind of commercial product to do this. I just don’t want to wait that long.

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bquinlan wrote:
djozz wrote:
It will switch on in your pocket, you are obliged to lock it out which, however nice the user interface is, makes the handling medieval compared to my ancient EDC-tailclicky.

You certainly aren’t wrong about the light activating too easily. I would prefer a recessed switch too.

Where I disagree is that I don’t think a recessed switch would make sufficient difference. My D4S has a recessed switch and it still gets turned on in my pocket occasionally. I have had pretty much every light I’ve ever carried do that at least a few times, which includes the FW3A, ZebraLight H600Fd, Fireflies E07, Thrunite TH30, and many others. The only lights I really trust never to do that are twist-on types. (And I never to get stuck using a modern UI with a twist-on switch!) Some switches are more prone to this problem than others, but with any light that really heats up, even once is a serious safety hazard.

So I have come to the conclusion that some form of lockout is necessary no matter what kind of switch is used. Given that, the lack of a recessed switch is a minor disadvantage, but not a critical one.

Just a different perspective.

In my experience, almost every sideswitch EDC light will occasionally turn on in the pocket. However, improved design reduces this occurrence. My experience:

  • Emisar D4v1 stock – accidental activation maybe once every few weeks. The switch protrudes, but usually requires a fairly firm press. Note however, that my D4s’ switches are inconsistent. On 1/3 of them the microswitch seems slightly damaged and activates with a much softer press.
  • Nitecore Concept 1 – accidental activation occurs immediately, 100% of the time when the light is placed into the pocket. (worst offender).
  • Zebralight SC63/64 series – deeply recessed button greatly reduces chance of accidental activation. I think I got an accidental activation about once per year with these.
  • FW3A – averaging an accidental activation about once every few weeks. Big exposed switch which can activation from multiple angles is the problem.
  • DQG Tiny IV 18650 – no accidental turn ons. Tiny flush button is quite resistant to accidental turn on. Button is hard to find by feel though.

So do I find lockout necessary? … no, except for the D4 v1 and the Concept 1.

  • Occasional pocket activation on non-turbo isn’t a big deal. I just turn it off when I notice and I’m good to go.
  • On the D4 v1, the risk is the button getting pressed and held by my pocket stuffing. Even if I turn the light off in moonlight it will ramp up to turbo and burn through my pocket. I roasted 2 pants pockets this way. Fortunately, the D4v2 features Anduril so I can set max ramp just below burning pocket level.
  • The Concept 1’s ridiculous protruding lever switch is so sensitive it triggers 100% of the time when put in the pocket. Definitely unusable without lockout.
  • For the FW3A, Zebralight, and my modded Emisar D4v1s with Anduril I do not consider lockout necessary. Even if they accidentally turn on in the pocket max ramp is set below “burning pocket” level. I think there’s little to no chance double-click turbo will spontaneously activate inside the pocket after it accidentally turns on.

I would have preferred a ring around the button on the D4v2 to reduce the frequency of accidental activation. I will likely mod the switch on mine to add a metal switch button and/or raised ring around the button to reduce this issue.

But my goal isn’t to 100% eliminate accidental activations…. just reduce the frequency.

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BROODMASTER wrote:

ToyKeeper wrote:
oweban wrote:
looks at wiring of aux+mcpcb Note to self, don’t ever change the emitters.
Yeah… I personally plan on never getting a soldering iron near this light. I don’t want to deal with soldering such small things in a tight space.

I have a D4 v.1 with Nichias (and no screws) where one has desoldered but will light up a bit if I take off and replace the optic, for a moment.  I have a replacement LED although removing the MCPCB and reflowing the existing ones may get it up and shining. I have a daunting task. I just don’t want to put it away in a drawer. I’ve reached out for help to some here in the forum but any recommendations are welcomed!


Reflowing can be done on a hotplate Smile

https://youtu.be/B3F68ubfBkk

The wires on the D4v1 aren’t so bad to remove though, which is nice.

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[/quote] Reflowing can be done on a hotplate Smile https://youtu.be/B3F68ubfBkk The wires on the D4v1 aren't so bad to remove though, which is nice.[/quote]

 

I would like to add mounting screws too but perhaps keeping it simple would be fine.

Thank you Oweban!

Recent/ongoing Mods:

https://imgur.com/a/8qUyZbL

 

https://imgur.com/a/EHq0i

 

                                

 

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ToyKeeper wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
What’s the light output graph look like if the light were to start at 1000 lumens?

That’s going to take a few hours to measure. I suppose I should do it though… charging up a cell now.

Okay, so it wasn’t very interesting. The sustainable output at 50 C was higher than I expected, so it basically dropped to ~800 lm and then just slowly descended as the battery drained. The only interesting part was that it bounced around a bit before settling at that level. So I’m not really happy with how the firmware handled it, but the hardware did a nice job.

Also, it took 6 minutes to heat up enough to even respond. And that’s with a totally full battery, which is the worst case for heat. A lower battery wouldn’t make as much heat. So during normal use I doubt this will really be an issue.

In any case, it looks like I still need to make a thermal simulator so I can improve the algorithm without spending days at a time just running tests.

patmurris
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Great review with a lot of information. And great job as usual! Thumbs Up

This D4 V2 has it all in such a compact shell. I know i won’t be able to refrain very long from ordering yet one more Emisar light.

Regarding EDC and accidental activation with the inconveniences it could involve, i’ve carried a 18650 D4 since it came out (in v2) and got used to lock/unlock it with six clicks. It is kind of a minor pain though and i’m glad this new one allows a somewhat faster ritual.

BTW: i thought the D4 was already in its second revision… so unless i’m mistaken that should be D4 V3?

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patmurris wrote:
Great review with a lot of information. And great job as usual! Thumbs Up

This D4 V2 has it all in such a compact shell. I know i won’t be able to refrain very long from ordering yet one more Emisar light.

Regarding EDC and accidental activation with the inconveniences it could involve, i’ve carried a 18650 D4 since it came out (in v2) and got used to lock/unlock it with six clicks. It is kind of a minor pain though and i’m glad this new one allows a somewhat faster ritual.

BTW: i thought the D4 was already in its second revision… so unless i’m mistaken that should be D4 V3?

v1 did undergo some minor revisions over its production course, including:

  • widening the center hole in the shelf for the wires
  • adding screws to hold the star down
  • very slightly shorter overall length
  • (in late v1) driver switch to use different MCU with pads for flashing.

However, all of those were still v1. The D4 still looked the same and was marketed the same.

This new version has external differences and more changes. It is advertised as v2 and says “D4v2” on the tailcap.

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JordanZHP wrote:
Do we know the bin of the SST20 4000K 95CRI? FA3 hopefully to eliminate green a lower levels?

They should be SST20 J5 FB4.
Just take the 3000k version, the green is less noticeable mixed with the yellow. Big Smile

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I have the impression the large MCPCB helps with heat storage, no?

That might be why it handles a bit more heat.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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I hope the wait for the D4s-v2 is next and D1S-V2 too

contactcr
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Hank told me the sst20’s have been different batches since they use a lot so YMMV

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Thanks for the review @Toykeeper!

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contactcr wrote:
Hank told me the sst20’s have been different batches since they use a lot so YMMV

I’ve got a ZL SC600, so sea-foam green is my color!

Bring it.

Chris

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Can anyone tell me why would anyone choose the xplhi version if the sst20 version is just as bright and have more throw.
Is it the tint? Less heat? Or..

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blueb8llz wrote:
Can anyone tell me why would anyone choose the xplhi version if the sst20 version is just as bright and have more throw.
Is it the tint? Less heat? Or..

Why choose XPL HI over SST20?

XPL HI features:

  • brighter: 4300 lumens for XPL HI compared to 4100 lumens for SST20. And the gap widens dramatically if you compare the high-CRI SST20 since those only do 3000 lumens.
  • runs cooler: XPL HI doesn’t generate as much heat, so you can run it longer at higher power settings before it ramps down.
  • much better tint: XPL HI tends to have great tint even at lower power settings. Most SST20 tends to turn puke-green at anything less than max turbo.

SST-20 aren’t bad, but having tried them in various lights I still consider XPL HI to be the “gold standard” emitter for small triples and quads.

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ChrisGarrett wrote:
contactcr wrote:
Hank told me the sst20’s have been different batches since they use a lot so YMMV

I’ve got a ZL SC600, so sea-foam green is my color!

Bring it.

Chris

Most clever!

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Boro wrote:
ChrisGarrett wrote:
contactcr wrote:
Hank told me the sst20’s have been different batches since they use a lot so YMMV

I’ve got a ZL SC600, so sea-foam green is my color!

Bring it.

Chris

Most clever!


green is nice Love
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Firelight2 wrote:
* Nitecore Concept 1 – accidental activation occurs immediately, 100% of the time when the light is placed into the pocket. (worst offender).

Such a gorgeous light, but it’s the only one that’s ever made me actually angry to use. What in the world were they thinking with that switch?

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Re: SST-20 vs XP-L HI – I was (un)fortunate(?) enough to have the latest iteration of D4 V1 arrive today, ahead of my D4 V2 which only got leaked a few days after my order had shipped.

My first D4 was an XP-L HI 3A 5000K. It has a very clean white but ever so slightly rosy tint at all output levels. Really nice.

My newest D4 is an SST-20 6500K, because I wanted to get the most powerful (throwy) version with a short tube to use as a showoff keychain light. In comparison to the XP-L HI one, I was very surprised to see just how much the tint changes over different output levels. At regulated and below it’s quite green, but when you start pushing in to hybrid drive, it gets very purple very quickly. I have also noticed that it tends to have more green/purple in the corona and is a bit whiter in the hot spot, unlike the XP-L HI which is consistent across the beam. I don’t actually mind the SST-20 when it starts to go a bit purple, but a lot of my usage is at the regulated level and I don’t like how green it looks at that point.

Another thing I was surprised about – when both D4s were running a fully charged 30Q, the SST-20 6500K got noticably hotter than the XP-L HI in a short space of time. I haven’t had chance to go out at night and compare the throw of both yet.

XP-L HI is more expensive, but I’m still happy to pay the premium. Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.

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Firelight2 wrote:
blueb8llz wrote:
Can anyone tell me why would anyone choose the xplhi version if the sst20 version is just as bright and have more throw.
Is it the tint? Less heat? Or..

Why choose XPL HI over SST20?

XPL HI features:

  • brighter: 4300 lumens for XPL HI compared to 4100 lumens for SST20. And the gap widens dramatically if you compare the high-CRI SST20 since those only do 3000 lumens.
  • runs cooler: XPL HI doesn’t generate as much heat, so you can run it longer at higher power settings before it ramps down.
  • much better tint: XPL HI tends to have great tint even at lower power settings. Most SST20 tends to turn puke-green at anything less than max turbo.

SST-20 aren’t bad, but having tried them in various lights I still consider XPL HI to be the “gold standard” emitter for small triples and quads.

Exactly why I chose XPL Hi. I was also quite impressed with the Neutral White – XP-G2 S4 5D, 4000K – this had more rose than even the XPL Hi 4000k. I have 2 and they have the best tint of all offerings. Had way too many D4s come through my hands. Smile

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In my experience:

  • Mechanical tail switches: 0 accidental pocket activations
    • Jaxman E2L, Convoy S2+ (rubber boot switch and the metal switches), Eagtac D25C, Jaxman M8, etc.
  • Klarus Mini One TI: Twisty, so no.
  • Jetbeam RRT-01: I've actually found this twisted past the detente a couple times. No actual light output, but more prone to further adjustment (at high it would probably be bad) and if I didn't notice it would run itself dead a lot quicker than expected.
  • Nitecore EC23: Literally every time I've clipped it into a pocket.
  • Zebralight SC62: Actually never. Not even one single accidental activation.
  • FW3A: At least once a day during the first week, and several times per week afterwards but not quite daily
    • It always happens when I'm clipping it to the pocket. There's a combination of switch is easy to press, switch isn't recessed, and not enough bezel around the switch on the tail, where it's hard for me to push down on the tail without activating.
  • Olight S1: Like twice in the first week, but then I changed the pocket clip / button alignment as well as where exactly I carry it, and I haven't had issues. I don't trust it 100% yet, but it has a protected cell and low output so there at least isn't danger, just a risk of running it dead and then needing it.
  • Emisar D4: The first day, the first time I clipped it into a pocket. Fortunately it didn't come on at a high mode, but I haven't carried it without locking it out since.

ToyKeeper wrote:
The sustainable output at 50 C was higher than I expected, so it basically dropped to ~800 lm and then just slowly descended as the battery drained [...] Also, it took 6 minutes to heat up enough to even respond. And that's with a totally full battery, which is the worst case for heat.

Nice. I'd probably set mine to 60°C, but it probably wouldn't buy me much more sustainable output. 

EDC Rotation: ZL SC62 | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 
"Back-Ups": EagTac D25C Ti | Olight S1 | Klarus Mini One Ti
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special
In-progress: Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2 
Others: Nitecore EC23 | Nebo Twyst | Streamlight ProTac 1AA | TerraLux LightStar 100

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ToyKeeper wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
What’s the light output graph look like if the light were to start at 1000 lumens?

That’s going to take a few hours to measure. I suppose I should do it though… charging up a cell now.

Okay, so it wasn’t very interesting. The sustainable output at 50 C was higher than I expected, so it basically dropped to ~800 lm and then just slowly descended as the battery drained. The only interesting part was that it bounced around a bit before settling at that level. So I’m not really happy with how the firmware handled it, but the hardware did a nice job.

Also, it took 6 minutes to heat up enough to even respond. And that’s with a totally full battery, which is the worst case for heat. A lower battery wouldn’t make as much heat. So during normal use I doubt this will really be an issue.

In any case, it looks like I still need to make a thermal simulator so I can improve the algorithm without spending days at a time just running tests.

That’s very good though! The light managed to hold more lumens steadily than I thought, for being such a small host.

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Damn, ~800lm? That’s way higher than I expected, even if it’s a bit hot. I was guessing somewhere more along the lines of 300lm max sustainable.

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Klayking wrote:
Re: SST-20 vs XP-L HI - I was (un)fortunate(?) enough to have the latest iteration of D4 V1 arrive today, ahead of my D4 V2 which only got leaked a few days after my order had shipped. My first D4 was an XP-L HI 3A 5000K. It has a very clean white but ever so slightly rosy tint at all output levels. Really nice. My newest D4 is an SST-20 6500K, because I wanted to get the most powerful (throwy) version with a short tube to use as a showoff keychain light. In comparison to the XP-L HI one, I was very surprised to see just how much the tint changes over different output levels. At regulated and below it's quite green, but when you start pushing in to hybrid drive, it gets very purple very quickly. I have also noticed that it tends to have more green/purple in the corona and is a bit whiter in the hot spot, unlike the XP-L HI which is consistent across the beam. I don't actually mind the SST-20 when it starts to go a bit purple, but a lot of my usage is at the regulated level and I don't like how green it looks at that point. Another thing I was surprised about - when both D4s were running a fully charged 30Q, the SST-20 6500K got noticably hotter than the XP-L HI in a short space of time. I haven't had chance to go out at night and compare the throw of both yet. XP-L HI is more expensive, but I'm still happy to pay the premium. Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.

I just ordered mine yesterday, SST-20 4000K. Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have gone with the 219C. My EDC at the moment are FW3A XP-L HI 3D that I'm very pleased with and a Rovyvon A8 (UV) 219C that is just awesome. I decided on the SST-20 as I wanted something different. Now seeing all the comments about the SST having Green/Purple issues I'm wondering if I shouldn't have gone with the Nichia instead. Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive? Am I worried about a non-issue?

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Am I worried about a non-issue?

Yes!

Tixx
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Bucknkd313 wrote:

Klayking wrote:
Re: SST-20 vs XP-L HI – I was (un)fortunate(?) enough to have the latest iteration of D4 V1 arrive today, ahead of my D4 V2 which only got leaked a few days after my order had shipped. My first D4 was an XP-L HI 3A 5000K. It has a very clean white but ever so slightly rosy tint at all output levels. Really nice. My newest D4 is an SST-20 6500K, because I wanted to get the most powerful (throwy) version with a short tube to use as a showoff keychain light. In comparison to the XP-L HI one, I was very surprised to see just how much the tint changes over different output levels. At regulated and below it’s quite green, but when you start pushing in to hybrid drive, it gets very purple very quickly. I have also noticed that it tends to have more green/purple in the corona and is a bit whiter in the hot spot, unlike the XP-L HI which is consistent across the beam. I don’t actually mind the SST-20 when it starts to go a bit purple, but a lot of my usage is at the regulated level and I don’t like how green it looks at that point. Another thing I was surprised about – when both D4s were running a fully charged 30Q, the SST-20 6500K got noticably hotter than the XP-L HI in a short space of time. I haven’t had chance to go out at night and compare the throw of both yet. XP-L HI is more expensive, but I’m still happy to pay the premium. Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.

I just ordered mine yesterday, SST-20 4000K. Now I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the 219C. My EDC at the moment are FW3A XP-L HI 3D that I’m very pleased with and a Rovyvon A8 (UV) 219C that is just awesome. I decided on the SST-20 as I wanted something different. Now seeing all the comments about the SST having Green/Purple issues I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the Nichia instead. Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive? Am I worried about a non-issue?

I would take his advice “Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.” Definitely contact them since they are not shipping yet.

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Bucknkd313 wrote:

Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive?


Yes, you could probably get your preorder changed if you send an email right now.

Bucknkd313 wrote:

Am I worried about a non-issue?


You could add a minus green filter, swap emitters, or sell/gift the flashlight if you don’t like the tint.

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Thank you ToyKeeper for your impeccable work both with the build and the review.

I ordered one in Sand, with SS bezel and 18500 tube equipped with 5000K Nichia 219C emitters. I will more than likely swap in Samsung LH351D W6 5000K within an hour of arrival, we’ll see. A lot of dependant variables around here lately…

Appreciate all the info and hard work, very much so. Hat’s off to the both of ya on a job well done. Wink

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Bucknkd313 wrote:

Klayking wrote:
Re: SST-20 vs XP-L HI – I was (un)fortunate(?) enough to have the latest iteration of D4 V1 arrive today, ahead of my D4 V2 which only got leaked a few days after my order had shipped. My first D4 was an XP-L HI 3A 5000K. It has a very clean white but ever so slightly rosy tint at all output levels. Really nice. My newest D4 is an SST-20 6500K, because I wanted to get the most powerful (throwy) version with a short tube to use as a showoff keychain light. In comparison to the XP-L HI one, I was very surprised to see just how much the tint changes over different output levels. At regulated and below it’s quite green, but when you start pushing in to hybrid drive, it gets very purple very quickly. I have also noticed that it tends to have more green/purple in the corona and is a bit whiter in the hot spot, unlike the XP-L HI which is consistent across the beam. I don’t actually mind the SST-20 when it starts to go a bit purple, but a lot of my usage is at the regulated level and I don’t like how green it looks at that point. Another thing I was surprised about – when both D4s were running a fully charged 30Q, the SST-20 6500K got noticably hotter than the XP-L HI in a short space of time. I haven’t had chance to go out at night and compare the throw of both yet. XP-L HI is more expensive, but I’m still happy to pay the premium. Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.

I just ordered mine yesterday, SST-20 4000K. Now I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the 219C. My EDC at the moment are FW3A XP-L HI 3D that I’m very pleased with and a Rovyvon A8 (UV) 219C that is just awesome. I decided on the SST-20 as I wanted something different. Now seeing all the comments about the SST having Green/Purple issues I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the Nichia instead. Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive? Am I worried about a non-issue?

Not even Hank knows exactly what bins of SST-20 he has gotten but I’ve had fairly good luck with almost all of them I’ve used, and fixing it is as simple as picking up some minus green filter sheet.

The “purple” of the 6500K version isn’t a actually a “bad” thing per se, that just means they’re getting fairly rosy at that output and in a very cool tint like 6500K that will appear closer to purple than it would on a lower temp light where it looks rosy. (Blue + pink = purple, “white” + pink = pink basically)

My $0.02, I’d rather have a light that’s slightly green over everything at some outputs which lets my eyes/brain adjust, than one that only makes certain things (wood, skin, dry grass/brush, etc.) look strangely greenish or dead like lower CRI emitters. Lower color temps close the gap there though.

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