TK's Emisar D4V2 review

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Geuzzz
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Tixx wrote:
Bucknkd313 wrote:

Klayking wrote:
Re: SST-20 vs XP-L HI – I was (un)fortunate(?) enough to have the latest iteration of D4 V1 arrive today, ahead of my D4 V2 which only got leaked a few days after my order had shipped. My first D4 was an XP-L HI 3A 5000K. It has a very clean white but ever so slightly rosy tint at all output levels. Really nice. My newest D4 is an SST-20 6500K, because I wanted to get the most powerful (throwy) version with a short tube to use as a showoff keychain light. In comparison to the XP-L HI one, I was very surprised to see just how much the tint changes over different output levels. At regulated and below it’s quite green, but when you start pushing in to hybrid drive, it gets very purple very quickly. I have also noticed that it tends to have more green/purple in the corona and is a bit whiter in the hot spot, unlike the XP-L HI which is consistent across the beam. I don’t actually mind the SST-20 when it starts to go a bit purple, but a lot of my usage is at the regulated level and I don’t like how green it looks at that point. Another thing I was surprised about – when both D4s were running a fully charged 30Q, the SST-20 6500K got noticably hotter than the XP-L HI in a short space of time. I haven’t had chance to go out at night and compare the throw of both yet. XP-L HI is more expensive, but I’m still happy to pay the premium. Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.

I just ordered mine yesterday, SST-20 4000K. Now I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the 219C. My EDC at the moment are FW3A XP-L HI 3D that I’m very pleased with and a Rovyvon A8 (UV) 219C that is just awesome. I decided on the SST-20 as I wanted something different. Now seeing all the comments about the SST having Green/Purple issues I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the Nichia instead. Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive? Am I worried about a non-issue?

I would take his advice “Really glad I played it safe and selected a 5D for my V2.” Definitely contact them since they are not shipping yet.

Tint is never a non issue.
The 4000k sst20 is pretty decent, with a bit of green, but you accept this for the hi cri, that really pays off outdoors. If you use your light indoors and for white wall hunting go for the 5D. If you want best of both worlds and some extra cosiness go for sst20 3000k.

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I’ve tried minus-green filter in my SST-20 D4. It greatly improves the tint.

But at the same time, it’s not a great solution. Minus green filter reduces lumen output anywhere from 14 to 30% depending on which Lee filter you choose. Result is better tint, but MUCH lower output.

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lightdecay wrote:

You could add a minus green filter, swap emitters, or sell/gift the flashlight if you don't like the tint.

 

Good point. I remember seeing a post with beamshots of an SST-20 compared to a 219 (B or C, can't remember) both before and after minus green filter being applied. It made a pretty noticable difference. As for an emitter swap, I've never done that but if I really hate it it might become an opportinity to learn new skills. Selling or gifting a flashlight? I don't even know what those words mean...guess I'll roll the dice and see what happens <img src= " />

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I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint

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lumos_maxima wrote:

I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint

Even on low?

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lumos_maxima wrote:
I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint

That’s a bit of good news, going into the weekend!

Chris

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lumos_maxima wrote:
I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint

 

Fingers crossed then, thanks!

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raccoon city wrote:

lumos_maxima wrote:

I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint


Even on low?


Yeah it’s totally cosy tinted even on low on my white wall indoors
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ChrisGarrett wrote:
lumos_maxima wrote:
I got a D4 sst-20 4000k ordered it with uncoated lens and honestly there’s zero green tint

That’s a bit of good news, going into the weekend!

Chris

Glad to have reassured you for the weekend;)

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Bucknkd313 wrote:

I just ordered mine yesterday, SST-20 4000K. Now I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the 219C. My EDC at the moment are FW3A XP-L HI 3D that I’m very pleased with and a Rovyvon A8 (UV) 219C that is just awesome. I decided on the SST-20 as I wanted something different. Now seeing all the comments about the SST having Green/Purple issues I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have gone with the Nichia instead. Do you suppose I could email them back and get my order changed? Are they that responsive? Am I worried about a non-issue?

At 4000K the transition will be more yellow-tinted to pink-tinted than green to purple. Also, some users are more sensitive to it than others.

This chromaticity diagram (source), overlaid with data from a 4000K SST-20 test, may help you better understand the trend:
https://i.imgur.com/Z3zBVo2.png

I would say not to worry too much about it, but if you would like to change, at least ask the question. Emisar is usually quite responsive.

Be aware that Hank has historically received a variety of bins of 219C emitters, too. My D4v1 has very neutral 219C’s in it. Other v1 owners have complained about green tinted 219C’s. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s a really good way to know how good what you will get is until you receive it, for any of the emitter options.

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Firelight2 wrote:
I’ve tried minus-green filter in my SST-20 D4. It greatly improves the tint.

But at the same time, it’s not a great solution. Minus green filter reduces lumen output anywhere from 14 to 30% depending on which Lee filter you choose. Result is better tint, but MUCH lower output.

15% reduction isn’t very noticeable at all to human eyes. Considering the alternative is 219Bs with their much lower output and less throw I’d say that’s a serious net gain if the tint of the SST-20s bothers anyone.

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I went for the 300K. It will be interesting to compare the tint to the 3000K XPL in the Wurkkos WK20 I got last month.

Honestly, I don’t know that I’ll EDC this Emisar all that often. I like my tiny AAA twisties too well. But we shall see.

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iamlucky13 wrote:
At 4000K the transition will be more yellow-tinted to pink-tinted than green to purple. Also, some users are more sensitive to it than others. This chromaticity diagram ("source":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/62195), overlaid with data from a 4000K SST-20 test, may help you better understand the trend: https://i.imgur.com/Z3zBVo2.png I would say not to worry too much about it, but if you would like to change, at least ask the question. Emisar is usually quite responsive. Be aware that Hank has historically received a variety of bins of 219C emitters, too. My D4v1 has very neutral 219C's in it. Other v1 owners have complained about green tinted 219C's. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a really good way to know how good what you will get is until you receive it, for any of the emitter options.

That's good information, thank you!

Yeah, I think I'll just see what I get and hope for a good result. Sometimes I can overthink things, especially when I have no personal experience.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
I’ve tried minus-green filter in my SST-20 D4. It greatly improves the tint.

But at the same time, it’s not a great solution. Minus green filter reduces lumen output anywhere from 14 to 30% depending on which Lee filter you choose. Result is better tint, but MUCH lower output.

15% reduction isn’t very noticeable at all to human eyes. Considering the alternative is 219Bs with their much lower output and less throw I’d say that’s a serious net gain if the tint of the SST-20s bothers anyone.

The filters that only reduce output 15% also shift the color temperature noticeably warmer. The filters that don’t shift color temp reduce output considerably more than 15%.

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Does it take an even higher hit in luminous intensity or is it about the same drop as total output?

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Thanks TK, for the review, for answering the additional questions in this thread, for continuously improving your amazingly versatile (and still expanding), yet highly useable flashlight firmwares, and for you being you.

My view on the D4V2:

  • Differently colored aux-leds with rainbow mode: FUN!
  • Driver-facing pins for (relatively) easy end-user reflashing of the firmware: GREAT!
  • Next batch: offer a recessed switch as an option in order to prevent unwanted pocket activation?
  • Although my default preference for stupid-simple stuff is quite the antithesis of this flashlight, it sure is calling my name…

Could you convince Hank to produce a D4V2 in a special color (think pink) with a TK-logo somewhere (e.g. on the tail), similar to the special edition FW3A? Or even better: a version in titanium rainbow, so the inside would match properly with the outside. Wink

And someone (Hank?) should start selling a BLF-edition “USB reflashing kit pogo-pin adapter”. The momentum is here. A lot of flashlight UI/FW modding potential is currently untapped because of the high (perceived) barrier to entry.

ToyKeeper wrote:
Emisar laid new foundations for the next generation of flashlights, and that makes things better for all of us — even those who don’t actually buy the D4V2. When new tech shows up in other lights, it’s likely because of the work Emisar did.

Like you already stated: the most important aspect of this flashlight resides on the collective level of the flashlight ecosystem as a whole. Great to see luminary vision enlightening the path forward in the field of flashlights. Seriously. Innocent

On the software side, your flashlight firmware continuously raises the bar for all flashlight manufacturers for their next models. Personally, I think only flashlights with a hardware rotary interface (HDS rotary, Jetbeam RRT01) can achieve the same high level of intuitive useability, while simultaneously offering complete, direct and precise control over light output. On top of that Anduril adds lots of features, a high degree of end-user programmability, including deliberately limiting the options with a muggle-mode, and all that with sane defaults, based on input from actual users based on their every-day flashlight use. Now that I have recently experienced the FW3A with Anduril, for me the only other flashlight UIs I still enjoy using are the {1|2|3}-mode tail-end or twisty, or the infinite rotary interface.

On the hardware side, Hank is willing to iteratively improve, upgrade, and update his hardware designs. I once heard someone tell me Hank even tests his own prototypes by EDC-ing them himself for a few weeks in order to identify and fix obvious bugs or design errors. Emisar products during their complete lifecycle reamin competitive with a high price-quality and lumens-dollar ratio. And finally, Hank is offering buyers choices in popular LEDs, different battery tubes, and other add-ons such as tailcaps with or without magnets, clips, SS bezels, or other optics. Other manufacturers would instead use the strategy of market segmentation, detrimental to potential buyers.

So hopefully, flashlights such as the D4V2 nudge major flashlight producers in directions favouring choice, modularity, flexibility, end-user UI programmability, end-user FW reflashability, and high price/quality ratio to stay competitive and relevant. Interesting to see how the centre for flashlight innovation has shifted from the US (Maglite, SureFire) towards entrepreneurs from Chinese companies such as Emisar, Sofirn, and Lumintop, actively cooperating with highly knowledgeable domain experts from innovation communities such as BLF. Currently, the US is only excelling in the niche markets of flashlights as male jewelry or as simple-yet-highly-reliable professional tools backed-up with solid no-questions-asked guarantee procedures.

Fenix and Olight should be worried about their future. If Olight would produce this light, a high-CRI 4000K version would only be available as a special limited edition version in titanium for 199 USD. Or if Fenix would produce this light, the exact LED would nowadays be a mystery for the buyers, and the UI would be borked in at least multiple ways. Someone should tell these companies to actively engage with flashlight lead users. Pro-tip: you can find these creatures right here, on BLF. And they are more than willing to give free advice on what they want to buy, what not, and why.
Or just hire TK as a product development consultant Wink

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slowtechstef wrote:
And someone (Hank?) should start selling a BLF-edition “USB reflashing kit pogo-pin adapter”. The momentum is here. A lot of flashlight UI/FW modding potential is currently untapped because of the high (perceived) barrier to entry.

I mean, if we’re hoping other lights will start following this exact layout, now would be a great time to try to drive that forward.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Made Lockout mode double as a momentary moon mode with 2 levels of output, so it doesn’t need to be unlocked for quick tasks

How to swap between those two levels ?

And hi everybody !

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Mekquake wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Made Lockout mode double as a momentary moon mode with 2 levels of output, so it doesn’t need to be unlocked for quick tasks

How to swap between those two levels ?

And hi everybody !

Hold the button for #1

Tap the button and then hold the button for #2

Assuming your light has the right firmware of course.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
What’s the light output graph look like if the light were to start at 1000 lumens?

That’s going to take a few hours to measure. I suppose I should do it though… charging up a cell now.

Okay, so it wasn’t very interesting. The sustainable output at 50 C was higher than I expected, so it basically dropped to ~800 lm and then just slowly descended as the battery drained. The only interesting part was that it bounced around a bit before settling at that level. So I’m not really happy with how the firmware handled it, but the hardware did a nice job.

Also, it took 6 minutes to heat up enough to even respond. And that’s with a totally full battery, which is the worst case for heat. A lower battery wouldn’t make as much heat. So during normal use I doubt this will really be an issue.

In any case, it looks like I still need to make a thermal simulator so I can improve the algorithm without spending days at a time just running tests.


So the thermal regulation isn’t much better than the first attempt?
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slowtechstef wrote:
And someone (Hank?) should start selling a BLF-edition “USB reflashing kit pogo-pin adapter”. The momentum is here. A lot of flashlight UI/FW modding potential is currently untapped because of the high (perceived) barrier to entry.

Yes, please!

I’ve ordered a ProgKey board and a set of Pogo Pins, but I am not confident in my ability to solder them on properly. I have an iron, but this seems to call for reflow.

I would much rather buy an assembled key!

—Bob Q
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bquinlan wrote:
slowtechstef wrote:
And someone (Hank?) should start selling a BLF-edition “USB reflashing kit pogo-pin adapter”. The momentum is here. A lot of flashlight UI/FW modding potential is currently untapped because of the high (perceived) barrier to entry.

Yes, please!

I’ve ordered a ProgKey board and a set of Pogo Pins, but I am not confident in my ability to solder them on properly. I have an iron, but this seems to call for reflow.

I would much rather buy an assembled key!

—Bob Q

Have been contemplating ordering some parts and making a kit to get my hands wet with firmware flashing/modding. Been doing SMD soldering/tinkering at my day job for quite a few years now, so I’ve got no qualms jumping in head first. I’ve got a couple questions:

Is there a list of pin-outs for Atmel chips? I have the pin-outs for the 13A.

It would go pogo pins > jumper cables > USBASP?

If someone can help me out with the proper pin-outs and diagrams I’d be happy to whip up some kits for people here who are interested.

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charwinger21 wrote:
Mekquake wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Made Lockout mode double as a momentary moon mode with 2 levels of output, so it doesn’t need to be unlocked for quick tasks

How to swap between those two levels ?

And hi everybody !

Hold the button for #1

Tap the button and then hold the button for #2

Assuming your light has the right firmware of course.


Doesn’t that totally negate the goal of lockout, to keep the light from coming on accidentally? Or are the 2 modes only pertinent to the low-powered aux emitters?

For the folks who keep talking about a recessed switch on the next version, maybe the mfr should roll out a light with no physical switch… a sound-activated version. You know, like Alexa.
“Emisar, turn on the light.”
“Emisar, full output now!”

Or maybe just, Clap on! Clap off! Evil

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ATtiny13 and 85 have same pinout Smile

And you’re right re: cable order – here’s one I finished yesterday for the FT03 (was teaching the wife to solder, I mean I’m not that good but I’m not like this):

https://i.imgur.com/pQKO1tW.jpg

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Rexlion wrote:
Doesn’t that totally negate the goal of lockout, to keep the light from coming on accidentally? Or are the 2 modes only pertinent to the low-powered aux emitters?

Sorta, but it’s handy to have a quick-on. Plus given its v low, if it does activate, it won’t be for long, and it won’t burn holes in things. Mechanical for real lock Wink
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oweban wrote:
ATtiny13 and 85 have same pinout Smile

And you’re right re: cable order – here’s one I finished yesterday for the FT03 (was teaching the wife to solder, I mean I’m not that good but I’m not like this):

https://i.imgur.com/pQKO1tW.jpg

Thank you, oweban! Big Smile Thumbs Up

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whipskirtayeyay wrote:
I’ve got a couple questions:

Is there a list of pin-outs for Atmel chips? I have the pin-outs for the 13A.

It would go pogo pins > jumper cables > USBASP?

If someone can help me out with the proper pin-outs and diagrams I’d be happy to whip up some kits for people here who are interested.

It’d be awesome if you made some kits available. So far, nobody has been willing to make more than a couple.

About the two questions…

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Rexlion wrote:
Doesn’t that totally negate the goal of lockout, to keep the light from coming on accidentally?

The goal of lockout is to make sure the light won’t burn anything or drain the battery overnight if accidentally clicked, or if left somewhere with the button pressed. And it does that. The levels are typically about 0.2 lm and 5 lm by default, and the former has a runtime of like 3 months.

bquinlan
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whipskirtayeyay wrote:
If someone can help me out with the proper pin-outs and diagrams I’d be happy to whip up some kits for people here who are interested.

That would be wonderful! Please put me down as your first customer.

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Very much appreciated, TK!

What’s the best source for the programming keys? OSH Park? Is Lexel’s version the latest revision?

I’m thinking a jig will probably be the most efficient way to attach the pogo pins if doing them in large quantities.

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