20A vs 45A

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ChattanoogaDan
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20A vs 45A

I have a Sofirn SP33 V2.0. I am looking to pick up an additional battery. I just purchased an AWT that has a 45A continuous discharge as well as a Shockli that has a 20A continuous discharge. Both are similar Mah. Will these differences in discharge amps affect the flashlight performance? Will the AWT be able to support the turbo mode for longer since it is a high drain battery? I have noticed that the Sofirn battery that came with the light will only support the turbo mode for a couple of minutes then the flashlight only operates in low medium and high until I charge the battery again. I’m looking for something that will allow me to use turbo mode for a lot longer. I am thinking that the higher drain 45A battery will support turbo mode even when the battery is only at 60% or is the flashlight performance solely based on voltage?

BlueSwordM
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Basically, since the AWT has lower internal resistance than the SP33, it’ll be able to stay in turbo for longer.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

ChrisGarrett
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There is no cell, that I know of, that has a continuous discharge of 45A for more than a few seconds. I’ve never seen one from HKJ’s, or Mooch’s testing.

But, I guess anything’s possible?

Pulsing, for sure.

Chris

BurningPlayd0h
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AWT lists their BURST drain ratings, not continuous no matter what the product page/packaging says.

They are straight up deceptive. For example the “40A drain” 20700 they had was likely a rewrap of the Sanyo 15A continuous NCR20700B based on testing.

Tally-ho
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ChrisGarrett
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Tally-ho wrote:
AWT IMR26650 5200mAh (Red) 2015

Did you even bother to read the review?

Craptastic.

OP doesn’t mention the cell, so his post is invalid.

Chris

Barkuti
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Basically, if you purchased an AWT you got swindled. They do not manufacture batteries, they buy from whatever manufacturer and rewrap the cells with their own exaggerated ratings.

Shockli is also a battery rewrapper, albeit a lot better. You may find a Shockli cell or two a tiny bit overrated, just that.

Better if you tell us which cells you bought but in essence, nearly for sure the Shockli cell will work better than the AWT in every aspect (both more capacity and discharge rate/power delivery).

AWT = Ain't Worth Trust

 

Smile 

ChattanoogaDan
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So I sent back the AWT 26650 battery unopened. I do have the Shockli battery that seems to work just fine. I did some more research and I also ordered a Vapcell 5900 mah battery rated at 20a max continuous which should also be plenty to power the light. The Shockli so far will power the Turbo mode well beyond what the Sofirn battery will. I honestly just got this light to take camping with me and I want the option to take a couple of spare batteries so I don’t have to worry about charging them while I’m gone.

amishbill
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I have a couple of SP33 lights, but only with Sofirn marked cells in them. Your comments make me wonder if I should try something ‘better’. Being able to run two side by side with different batteries might be an interesting test.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Barkuti
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amishbill, the SP33 is a flashlight with a fully regulated boost driver. Current and power to the emitter is kept constant at all times if possible. Current draw from the battery is affected by cell voltage input to the driver, this means it'll run a little little bit cooler with high discharge cells but since it is not a power hungry flashlight, nothing major. Current draw was measured at 5.8A from the battery when using LiitoKala 5000mAh cells (PLB INR26650-50A) according to this review, and a little less from a Samsung INR21700-30T due to higher input voltage. I won't mention the KeepPower 5200mAh, they rewrap many good cells but also some not so good others and they also overrate and overprice as a rule.

If you need some recommendation go get LiitoKala 26650s 5000mAh (affordable price and good cells) or the Shockli 5500mAh, which is a PLB INR26650-55A (a 1C capacity rated cell, this means it is underrated versus the usual 0.2C industry standard) rewrap and will provide you with the longest runtimes to this date.

There may be cells with apparently better looking figures printed on their wraps but as far as my knowledge of the market goes,  it's all a bunch of lies (KeepPower rewraps the same cell as Shockli, only they overrate label it “6000mAh”).

 

Cheers 

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Barkuti wrote:

Basically, if you purchased an AWT you got swindled. They do not manufacture batteries, they buy from whatever manufacturer and rewrap the cells with their own exaggerated ratings.


Shockli is also a battery rewrapper, albeit a lot better. You may find a Shockli cell or two a tiny bit overrated, just that.


Better if you tell us which cells you bought but in essence, nearly for sure the Shockli cell will work better than the AWT in every aspect (both more capacity and discharge rate/power delivery).


AWT = Ain’t Worth Trust


 


Smile 

Or how about: AWT = A in’t W ortha T urd Silly
?
(Very similar to A.W.S.)

Needless to say, I won’t be trying this brand & I’ll primarily stick to LG, Samsung, & Molicel, for the most part. I hear Sony is good though, but they all don’t make 26650 still as far as I know… Well I recently purchased two 5900mah 20A Vapcell 26550 batteries that are fairly new models for a Tomo battery bank which I haven’t received yet (and hope it fits in), but they don’t fit in certain vape mods or flashlights from what I hear. Steve Anyhow, thanks for the heads up!

If anything better has arrived, please post here; would be very interested to keep this thread going until we find something good that comes out.

Agro
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Always Worthless Turd?

KnHawke
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If you want good cells, with credible ratings, do pay attention to the Mooch reviews. He can get so technical with his methodology sometimes, it goes over my head sometimes.

A couple GOOD, trustworthy places to get batteries from: IMRBatteries and 18650BatteryStore
I personally always go for HohmTech and Samsung cells… Been eyeballing Molicel since they have been reviewing great by Mooch.

Barkuti
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Both Mooch and HKJ offer worthwhile and useful information. I usually go to Henrik's site due to sheer testing completeness but I also check Mooch's reviews when needed, he offers higher power delivery/discharge rate testing.

I can understand that some of you just want high performance cells with cost being a lesser consideration, but as someone who does some battery pack assemblies my approach is quite different. To me, the performance versus cost quotient is paramount. This means Molicel, along with most cell rewrappers, is at the rear or nowhere to be seen in my (battery pack) cell wishlist.

ledlightfanatic
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Agro wrote:
Always Worthless Turd?

I don’t think that has the “ring and zing” to it that makes it so funny…
Its gotta have the “Ain’t” LOL.

Agro
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I like my version more. Smile

ledlightfanatic
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Agro wrote:
I like my version more. Smile

Hey guys, who’s version do you like more? Can we get a vote going? Silly

wle
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45A for 10 sec maybe, with some accelerated wear and or damage.

anything like that is for vapers really.

or it may just be incorrect/misleading/wrong.
the spec.

wle

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hank
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Quote:
anything like that is for vapers really.

Yep. There’s our problem right there. We’re not the market where the big bucks are competing.

wle
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interestingly, high drain is usually not possible with high energy storage
the designs conflict

so there is no way to know if a 60A battery would run the turbo longer than 45A or not

also there is no way to really verify either spec

these batteries should be rated like car batteries – cold cranking amps
as opposed to marine batteries which are rated in AH
they are NOT interchangeable.

wle

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Barkuti
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wle wrote:
interestingly, high drain is usually not possible with high energy storage
the designs conflict

Not necessarily. The stuff has improved a lot, we now have high drain and high capacity in ways which were not possible years ago.

However, the way continuous drain rates (without temperature limits) are defined certainly pose certain restrictions to the maximum allowable energy in a cell because if not, its temperature would raise sky high without adequate cooling.

wle wrote:

these batteries should be rated like car batteries - cold cranking amps

That is completely inadequate for li-ion cells. Also, cold cranking amps is as misleading as measuring an engine's pull ability by means of its torque, this is because what makes work or pull is power. And power is V × A, or rotational speed times torque.

If I am to design a LiFePO4 car battery given the continuous ratings of its cells, by the same CCA rating it would certainly leave the lead-acid battery in the dust¹. This is because for the same amount of amperage the LiFePO4 battery would output higher voltage, or more amperage for the heavily depressed voltage the CCA rating is defined, which means more power.

¹ Except in very cold conditions, it is said.

wle
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Barkuti wrote:

wle wrote:
interestingly, high drain is usually not possible with high energy storage
the designs conflict

Not necessarily. The stuff has improved a lot, we now have high drain and high capacity in ways which were not possible years ago.


However, the way continuous drain rates (without temperature limits) are defined certainly pose certain restrictions to the maximum allowable energy in a cell because if not, its temperature would raise sky high without adequate cooling.


wle wrote:

these batteries should be rated like car batteries – cold cranking amps

That is completely inadequate for li-ion cells. Also, cold cranking amps is as misleading as measuring an engine’s pull ability by means of its torque, this is because what makes work or pull is power. And power is V × A, or rotational speed times torque.


If I am to design a LiFePO4 car battery given the continuous ratings of its cells, by the same CCA rating it would certainly leave the lead-acid battery in the dust¹. This is because for the same amount of amperage the LiFePO4 battery would output higher voltage, or more amperage for the heavily depressed voltage the CCA rating is defined, which means more power.


¹ Except in very cold conditions, it is said.

made you think, though Smile

wle

========
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
--Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
========
It never gets easy, you just go faster.

--Greg Lemond.
========
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
              __o
    __o     _`\<,_      __o
  _`\<,_   (*)/ (*)   _`\<,_
 (*)/ (*)            (*)/ (*)
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
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