What should the next Foursevens QK16L UI look like? GAW winner raccoon city

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Got Lumens
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What should the next Foursevens QK16L UI look like? GAW winner raccoon city
Option #1 Just change Medium(~100lm) to a lower ~40lm setting(Jason's Preference)
20% (9 votes)
Option #2 Add a fourth mode ~25lm between Medium(100lm) and Low(~1lm) {Might not be possible with limited driver memory}
39% (18 votes)
Option #3 Lower Medium(~100lm) to ~40lm and Lower High(400lm) to ~350lm for more even mode spacing
41% (19 votes)
Total votes: 46

Neutrālisflashaholic

Edited by: Got Lumens on 09/20/2019 - 20:06
Got Lumens
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Hi Fousevens Fam,

I've heard your feedback on the Quark UI. Our first production run on QK16L lights sold out on Kickstarter and we are about to begin the next batch, so I may have an opportunity to revise the UI to make it more nerd friendly. A term of endearment of course!

First, let's acknowledge that no one ever agrees on UI and the ONLY solution to make everyone happy is fully programmable. That's not an option at this time. So, the new Fourseven's UI (in general) is intended to be as simple as possible while capturing the preference of a majority of flashlight users...not just enthusiasts I would also point out that those two goals are in conflict, and the final solution must strike a middle ground. Given all that:

Should the next Quark UI stay the same but lower the medium output to 40 lumens, or should a 4 mode UI be implemented? My main hesitation with adding a 4 mode is the need to add two additional configurations, bringing the total from 6-8. 6 is easy enough to memorize long term. 8 configs and you better not lose your user manual. I'm also not sure there is enough memory left on the chip to add two more configurations.

Notes on the current UI spacing:

  1. High mode is set to 60% of Max/Burst (100%) output because this is roughly "one step" in brightness. Burst is a battery conservation measure because the change in perceived brightness is not very drastic, but the extension of battery life is.
  2. Medium mode is set to 1/4 the output of High mode because a 4x change in output is equivalent to doubling the perceived brightness. This is a nice spacing (seemed good on paper) but I agree, a resulting 100 lumens is a little bright...especially for us flashlight nerds. I don't think civilians will care.


My personal inclination (proposed UI #1) is to keep the UI the same, but drop medium mode to 40 lumens. This equates to a 10x change in output between medium and high instead of 4x. This is basically the same as the current Mini/Turbo MKIII settings and no one has taken issue with that yet

Existing UI

  • Config. 1: High - (Burst)
  • Config. 2: Max - Strobe
  • Config. 3: Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 4: Low - Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 5: High - Medium - Low - (Burst)
  • Config. 6: Low - Med - High - Strobe - SOS - Beacon - (Burst)
  • Output Max/Burst: 700 lumens (100%)
  • Output High: 400 lumens (60%)
  • Output Medium: 100 lumens (15%)
  • Output Low: 1 lumen


Proposed UI #1 (just change medium to lower output - my personal preference)

  • Config. 1: High - (Burst)
  • Config. 2: Max - Strobe
  • Config. 3: Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 4: Low - Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 5: High - Medium - Low - (Burst)
  • Config. 6: Low - Med - High - Strobe - SOS - Beacon - (Burst)
  • Output Max/Burst: 700 lumens (100%)
  • Output High: 400 lumens (60%)
  • Output Medium: 40 lumens (6%)
  • Output Low: 1 lumen


Proposed UI #2 (add a 4 mode option where the difference between low and medium is also 4x - may not be possible due to memory constraints - seems overly complicated - I get dizzy just looking at the options)

  • Config. 1: High - (Burst)
  • Config. 2: Max - Strobe
  • Config. 3: Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 4: Low - Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 5: High - Medium - Low - (Burst)
  • Config. 6: Moon - Low - Medium - High - (Burst)
  • Config. 7: High - Medium - Low - Moon (Burst)
  • Config. 8: Low - Med - High - Strobe - SOS - Beacon - (Burst)
  • Output Max/Burst: 700 lumens (100%)
  • Output High: 400 lumens (60%)
  • Output Medium: 100 lumens (15%)
  • Output Low: 25 lumens (4%)
  • Output Moonlight: 1 lumen

 

Cheers
Jason

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Got Lumens
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GAW is now CLOSED

Congratulations to raccoon city for winning this GAW.
Many thanks to all who have voted and played.

 

You must be an active member who has joined before February 28th 2019 

You must have at least 30 posts.

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Your post becomes your entry in the GAW

Winner drawn September 15th 2019 from valid entries using random . org.

USPS Priority to US, First Class to Outside of the US.

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saypat
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I voted.

… more modes the merrier Smile

Unheard
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#1, since 100 lm is too close to 400 lm.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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Option 3. 100 lumens is to much. More even modespacing sounds right, but you probably won’t even notice the difference. Might give longer runtimes though.

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Since human brightness perception is not linear I voted for Option #1 (difference between 350 and 400 probably won´t be noticeable)

raccoon city
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I voted!  :-)

Why Feb. 28th?

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Voted for option #3. For better runtime.

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Voted #3 , to be coherent with the previous conversation and vote Big Smile

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I have a ramp calculator which can be used to calculate evenly-spaced levels on a few different perceptual scales, if anyone wants guidance on how many lumens to aim for at each level.

On a light which goes up to 700 lumens, I’d normally use 5 levels… 0.25 / 10 / 70 / 260 / 700 lm.

But it sounds like that’s not an option. So within the constraint of 1 to 700 lm in a maximum of 5 steps (including burst), I’d suggest something more like… 1 / 20 / 100 / 300 / 700 lm.

If it needs to hit 400 lm for some reason, it could be… 1 / 25 / 133 / 400 / 700 lm.

Or if it can only use 3 modes plus burst, I’d probably go with 1 / 20 / 150 / 700 lm.

If it helps, the first one was calculated with a command line like this:

./level_calc.py 4.18 1 5 7135 1 0.25 700
1: visually 0.72 (0.25 lm): 1.00/255
2: visually 1.74 (10.05 lm): 4.56/255
3: visually 2.76 (69.20 lm): 26.03/255
4: visually 3.77 (257.79 lm): 94.48/255
5: visually 4.79 (700.00 lm): 255.00/255
PWM1 values: 1,5,26,94,255

On most EDC-style lights I only actually use a few levels… ~10 lumens, ~0.25 lumens, and something in the range of 50 to 100 lumens. But usually just 10. And occasionally turbo, but not very often. So I try to make sure those are included in the ramp. But if the lowest mode is 1 lumen instead of having a true moon level, the entire thing gets shifted upward to avoid having modes too close together. So it hits about 20 or 25 lumens instead.
lionheart_2281
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Voted option 3

Budda
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option 2 for me

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I voted for last option! Lower middle modes I don’t mind. It’s the max that always matters.

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Voted

  1. since existing is not optional…

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

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I voted option 1. The spacing is good enough that way, and in my experience more modes just means you spend more time getting where you need to be. Even four modes on my EDC lights has started to bother me. With proper spacing, three is enough.

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Just voted #1.
I’d like 40 lumens on medium instead of 100 because it’s still high enough after the low 1 lumen.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
I have a ramp calculator which can be used to calculate evenly-spaced levels on a few different perceptual scales, if anyone wants guidance on how many lumens to aim for at each level.

On a light which goes up to 700 lumens, I’d normally use 5 levels… 0.25 / 10 / 70 / 260 / 700 lm.

But it sounds like that’s not an option. So within the constraint of 1 to 700 lm in a maximum of 5 steps (including burst), I’d suggest something more like… 1 / 20 / 100 / 300 / 700 lm.

If it needs to hit 400 lm for some reason, it could be… 1 / 25 / 133 / 400 / 700 lm.

Or if it can only use 3 modes plus burst, I’d probably go with 1 / 20 / 150 / 700 lm.

If it helps, the first one was calculated with a command line like this:

./level_calc.py 4.18 1 5 7135 1 0.25 700
1: visually 0.72 (0.25 lm): 1.00/255
2: visually 1.74 (10.05 lm): 4.56/255
3: visually 2.76 (69.20 lm): 26.03/255
4: visually 3.77 (257.79 lm): 94.48/255
5: visually 4.79 (700.00 lm): 255.00/255
PWM1 values: 1,5,26,94,255

On most EDC-style lights I only actually use a few levels… ~10 lumens, ~0.25 lumens, and something in the range of 50 to 100 lumens. But usually just 10. And occasionally turbo, but not very often. So I try to make sure those are included in the ramp. But if the lowest mode is 1 lumen instead of having a true moon level, the entire thing gets shifted upward to avoid having modes too close together. So it hits about 20 or 25 lumens instead.

Voted

Do what TK says. And get a sub lumen moonlight.

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Voted
Picked option 3 for run time, given the size of the light.

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I went with 3.

The difference between 350 and 400 would be nigh imperceptible, even 2 lights side-by-side, yet would at least give marginally more runtime.

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I voted. 1 / 20 / 150 / 700 would be my preference within these constraints.

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i voted
for #2
but you guys should study anduril UI
seriously
it’s the best

2nd runner up is BLF A6 ui

wle

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raccoon city wrote:

I voted!  :-)

Why Feb. 28th?

6 months seemed reasonable.

Neutrālisflashaholic

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Curious to know why the change so soon after all those people backed the Kickstarter project? Will the proposed change be implemented for them – or will they just be SOL and “stuck” so to speak with what they backed you with?

It seems a bit odd to say to those 1000+ supporters that the light you just bid on and are getting is going to be immediately changed right after you get yours… Question

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Hoosh wrote:
Curious to know why the change so soon after all those people backed the Kickstarter project? Will the proposed change be implemented for them - or will they just be SOL and “stuck” so to speak with what they backed you with? It seems a bit odd to say to those 1000+ supporters that the light you just bid on and are getting is going to be immediately changed right after you get yours... Question
"Our first production run on QK16L lights sold out on Kickstarter and we are about to begin the next batch, so I may have an opportunity to revise the UI to make it more nerd friendly."

It's asking what customers think of the current, and their opinion on the possibility of changing the UI on future runs.
I'm hearing You do not want it changed so soon and keep the current UI. You may think it is
too early to change it,

but production manufacturing processes need submittal time to implement. Currently there is a small window of time

the design can be tweaked before beginning the next batch. This is why Jason is asking what everyone thinks, and

appreciates everyone's comments and opinions on Quark QK16L MKIII's UI. 

 

I can't change the poll without resetting it, so I will include leave it the same comments as a vote for the GAW

Neutrālisflashaholic

Hoosh
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Cool. Thanks for the answer.

Vote for Pedro keeping things the same. Big Smile

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Hoosh wrote:
Cool. Thanks for the answer. Vote for -Pedro- keeping things the same. :D
Pedro's Vote count's 

Neutrālisflashaholic

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Voted! Thank you for GAV

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Voted!
Personally, I always want a 10-ish lumen mode in the sequence, great for reading stuff, but that is none of the options. So 40 lumen med is closest, and much better than 100 lumen. Makes no sense to me to lower the 400 lumen to 350.

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Voted for option #3

Sorry for my poor english.

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Voted for option 3. I just prefer having more options.

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