Does anyone know, WHY Worklights lag so much behind??

Off-topic Chatter
1

I mean sure, LED-worklights are now the mainstream.
Different sizes, shapes, some even very powerful indeed!

…but…

like 99,9% of what I come across do not even state, do they use PWM or not, what leds they use or what CRI?
Some ADVANCED models may even have a “warm tint” (whoa!) but even they don´t specify what leds they use.
That means, its a generic chinese LED stuff used, pricing more like USD/lbs.

SSt20´s in copper PCB´s don´t cost that much. Neither do different High CRI neutral LEDs.

Don´t you think there should be a big opportunity for markets here or is there a real reason why these ase lagging like 10 years behind?

Sorry if I sound provocative :expressionless:

Some may know brands, that ARE using better leds but I cannot find them here locally, not much help from aliexpress either.
Usually they are also some custom stuff that are in totally unreachable price range.

2

My guess is majority of the market that these lights are designed for just does not care much about this. They are not BLF members and tint snobs. :slight_smile: They just want a light that produces good amount of output, and that’s it. The rest is like splitting hairs.

3

Just like with everything else, they lag behind because THEY CAN! Manufacturers of anything are going to try to make the most profit they can get. If the market will bear a work light that is roughly equivalent to flashlight technology of 10 years ago, that’s what they’ll make. Nobody wants to compete. In fact, look at the flashlight section of Lowe’s or Wal-Mart and you’ll see their flashlights are at least five to ten years behind what we have available here, and yet two to three times the price! :open_mouth:

4

- small differences in BOM can start to push up prices of the end product quickly

- consumers are typically not very savvy, and don’t care about things like CRI/CCT

- ….much less pay attention to individual emitter makes or models

  • measurable specs often drive sales, a high CRI 550 lumen light will likely not be as marketable as a light at 1000 lumen regardless of CRI or CCT
5

You have to search for good lights, usually regular stores do not sell any good lights.
The only exception over here is a large camping and outdoor store which seems to be a distributor of Olight, (my wife and kids didn’t know and lost me in the store)

6

Milwaukee Tools has really nice work lights. Contractors love them

7

Same situation in here at the markets…

8

The quality of the lights aren’t generally what sells cordless power tool kits, so there’s not much incentive to make them fancy, or even to really understand what they need to do.

One of the lights Dewalt includes in most of their kits, for example, has largish smooth reflector and very small emitter (might be XP-E2?). It makes a really tight beam. It makes me wonder if they even thought about what beam profile they wanted to offer, or if they just selected a reflector looked the right size for a tool light and the first LED they found that put out the desired number of lumens.

It might even have a tighter beam than the one Dewalt actually markets as a spot light.

9

Actually, they’re 5-10 years behind even themselves.

Home Depot still has the same 3xAAA “Defiant” branded lights I bought almost 10 years ago and disliked enough that they started my quest for what I ultimately learned were called “neutral white” and “regulated drivers.”

They’ve changed the body shape and package numerous times since then, but functionally, they are the same light that I was unimpressed with back then. Meanwhile, the Fenix LD10 was already a popular regulated, multi-mode flashlight running on a single cell with multi-chemistry support.

10

Agreed. They typically use 4000-4500k 80 CRI Cree xpl emitters, and I’ve been very happy with them. If you already have their batteries, the lights are generally affordable, but if not, they can become quite expensive.

11

Well, I worked in construction for 10 years, and still do some work on the side. I’ve always regarded Milwaukee as one of the top Premium brands of power tools.

12

I use Milwaukee lights mostly these days along with my SC64 and BLF F3W recently mostly because they are the first mass market light available at Home Depot that seems to at least understand the value of talking about quality of light as much as quantity overall.
The other thing that is just as important is that if I kill one in the field I can just go back to HD and replace it right away!
The reason the Mini Mag is/was so popular in the field is this ability as much as any other feature really,I need to always have something to use without fail.

I have a 2aaa Milwaukee pen light most days and it has 100 lumens of some warmish tint higher CRi light and a nice bite ring to use your mouth for holding!
I have a couple of them and they are really solid overall.

I have a few based on the 4.2v Red Lithium pack that Milwaukee uses and I have several that use the standard M12 or M18 batteries all the way up to a room filling Rocket model that resembles a Bazooka when folded for transport.
that thing has its own stand built in and will run at 1000l or more all day long off the right battery and has been great on construction sites with no power all day long in muddy basements,it is a really solid tool.

Otherwise I value run times as much as anything else so I use the Convoy S2+ a lot and bring plenty of 18650s along with an 18650 HL and I am usually OK.
I work with wiring almost all the time so tint & CRi is huge in a light on the job to me,not so lucky explaining this though to the other cavemen on most jobs!
More is always better to them,always!

13

It’s called not wanting to do some R&D and not willing to educate their customers about the benefits of the lights we have.

14

I came across a posting of a local FD near me, a few months ago, regarding their need for scene lighting. They actually ended up choosing Milwaukee over lights designed specifically for emergency responders.

‘#ProStory: “I’ve been a member of Horneytown Fire Department for almost five years now and over the years I noticed we were lacking in a couple areas, specifically portable lighting and power tools. HFD provides fire protection and rescue operations in a mainly rural area, so previously when we would respond to calls at night, the scene was typically not very well lit. This had gone on long enough and it was time for a change! So I headed up a proposal that we take some money we had made from fundraisers and get some new equipment. As I was doing my research on what products to buy, Milwaukee Tools became an instant top choice for several reasons. To start with, the variety of lighting products Milwaukee provides is incomparable. Between the Rocket light towers, Rover mounting flood lights, and search lights there isn’t a scene we can’t light up. All of these lights provide fast, reliable, and super bright light which allow us to do our job safely and efficiently. With the addition of our FUEL SAWZALLs and FUEL deep cut saw there are very few things we can’t cut through, especially with the new Carbide Teeth blades, those blades are unbelievable! The best part about all of this is that every tool uses the same battery, which makes life at the fire house much easier. Thank you, Milwaukee, for making tools we can depend on when others are depending on us!” - Alston G.’

15

My 2cents here would be that using arrays of mid-power LEDs is a desirable feature depending on the use case. I have experience working both as a carpenter and auto mechanic and I can tell you the one thing that sucks with lighting MORE than PWM, cool white, low CRI… and that is hard shadows! Even a floody TIR optic on a large emitter isn’t good enough a lot of times. Having a large LES really is critical in a lot of situations in my personal experience.

I realized this the hard way years ago when I was so excited to use my new fancy 5B1 80CRI XML2 in a Convoy S6 with a 45* TIR. I was working as a diesel mechanic and was tired of using the giant battery operated CFL lights we had. To my surprise, my handy S6 didn’t win me over in a bunch of use cases where I actually had the space to use the 6” CFL bulbs. It created shadows and ironically, since it was small and still relatively directional light, it was hard to use. I could rarely find a place to set it and have light hit my target, and even when I did, the smallest obstruction, e.g. a hydraulic brake line, would cast a huge shadow just inches away.

In summary, high power LEDs are not the solution for all applications. Mid-power emitters have a place. I believe Clemence would support this notion as well.

Cheers :beer:

16

Yep, Milwaukee Tools gets it.

MILWAUKEE® site lighting is the industry’s first system of high-output LED lights to offer full-day runtime in portable packages. The site lights utilize the most advanced lighting technology to deliver a consistent beam, optimized color temperature and true representation of colors and detail leading to a more productive work area. Our job site lights shine brighter, last longer and are uniquely designed to ADAPT, PERFORM and SURVIVE the daily demands of professional use.

17

Most people who use flashlights don’t care about these things. We are the aberration in the marketplace. When it comes to work lights, none of the stuff we care about matters. When it comes to portable industrial/utility lighting, all the stuff you care about is here, it’s just not sold at the hardware store.

Keep in mind, the original work light is a socket with a metal spring and a stamped aluminum reflector. They are still around. They cost all of $7.

The main requirement for work lights is that the thing that was dark is not dark anymore. After that you care that you have enough light. Then after that you care if you can plug it in. Color reproduction doesn’t matter for framing and wiring. Halogen work lamps made headway into the market despite costing MUCH more because they brought more light in less space and since you had to keep them from setting things on fire, they brought new useful mounting solutions with them. The physical packaging for protection also means you didn’t have to worry about bulbs getting burnt out as much with the cheap designs either. Carrying two $80 dual head halogen set ups saved space and effort over carrying 8+ $7 specials.

You don’t care about PWM dimming because you aren’t going to dim the thing. No one lamp is ever going to bring too much illumination to the job. You will either be cursing wishing you had more lamps, or you will simply not use all you have. The plug or power switch is literally your dimming control.

The battery operated bit that LEDs have brought to the game is the reason LEDs are getting adopted on merit. (LEDs are showing up also just because of governmental regulations). Some people have need of this. Homeowners and mechanics will love it. Contractors and such less so. If they have no juice they have generators on site for other reasons. But even then, much like cordless drills and such, they probably will have a couple on hand for expediency on small jobs.

In very few instances will someone care about work lights and color reproduction. The original work light is a socket with a metal spring and a stamped aluminum reflector. They are still around. They cost all of $7. If you have color reproduction needs, you can go a a couple of aisles over and get specific color temp high CRI bulbs for $3 a pop. $10.

If you are REALLY serious about needing portable color controlled lighting you go to the existing market and just buy LED lamps for video work.

If you needed battery operated scene lighting, you used to go to the specialist industry manufacturers for them. But LEDs and high density battery offerings are just getting too cheap and commoditized to support the premium niche industry. Which is why you see mass market brands like milwaulkee getting in on it.

I love my flashlights. I’ve spent tons on them.

I’ve got a ryobi battery powered work light. It is incredibly useful. You can’t make me care about it’s color reproduction as it’s just not relevant to how they get used. I might buy another one or two and more battery packs.

You can’t compete on features the market doesn’t care about.

18

all the power tool lights i have used in the past were subpar.
except for a craftsman fluorescent.
that one was nice.
its like they dont even try to make a decent worklight.
at least i can stuff an mr16 led flood into most of them.

19

It depends on the industry the lights would be for. The car/bike/truck mechanics I know are very happy with the huge selection of headlamps on the market. When you have a bolt that seized up or a large part that won’t come out… a static location is not ideal. Headlamps have a huge selection and all the bells and whistles anybody could ask for.

For all other work/contracting industries I wouldn’t know enough about to judge what lights they’ll need.