[M4D deal] Nightwatch NI40 with Luminus SBT90 Gen2 interest list OPEN

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makapuu
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Hi Martin. Reports are starting to come in saying that the memory is intermittent. Also mode switching, as well as the button feel/press. Can you check with Neal on that.
That is a huge factor on whether I would want the light, because I would like the light to start out in turbo.

Lux-Perpetua
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According to some feedback on TLF the positive terminal of unprotected 21700 batteries like Samsung 40T will be crushed. Sad 

mortuus
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

According to some feedback on TLF the positive terminal of unprotected 21700 batteries like Samsung 40T will be crushed. Sad 

dissapointing to hear since thats a standard very good quality highdrain battery to use in many lights Facepalm

...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

Tally-ho
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I would have like to order it but a few things need to be fixed before I consider it. Sorry Martin, I put down my email for the GB, but not this time.

M4D M4X
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I hope my sample arrives soon to check those points

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

Xenovora
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

According to some feedback on TLF the positive terminal of unprotected 21700 batteries like Samsung 40T will be crushed. Sad 

Does that include the Shockli 5500 battery that was marketed along with the light? Hope not… I bought two of those batteries and 2 lights…

Th558
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Xenovora wrote:

Does that include the Shockli 5500 battery that was marketed along with the light? Hope not… I bought two of those batteries and 2 lights…

Nope. Thats a 26650 so it’s fine.
Xenovora
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Was there any supposed advantage had issues not been found, with using 21700s instead of 26650s for this light?

Th558
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Xenovora wrote:
Was there any supposed advantage had issues not been found, with using 21700s instead of 26650s for this light?

Nagonka from TLF forum got 4950 lumens at turn on with a 40T compared to only 3750 from the shockli 5500.
Xenovora
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WHAT D: What’s up with that….. I wasn’t aware of such poor performance of the Shockli… is there another fitting 26650 that puts out comparable output for the claimed 5k lumens?

Now I may have to refund these two batteries… potential headache lol. Only had to return one mail item in my life. Well actually a need for more but I couldn’t bring myself to jump through all the hoops so Ive kept many unsatisfactory online purchases unfortunately.

I wish I could read German.

Th558
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Xenovora wrote:
WHAT D: What’s up with that….. I wasn’t aware of such poor performance of the Shockli… is there another fitting 26650 that puts out comparable output for the claimed 5k lumens?

The shockli (PLB 55A) is the best high capacity cell you can find but at high currents it’s no match for the 40T.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common26650comparator.php
Xenovora
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mortuus wrote:
Xenovora wrote:
blueb8llz wrote:
I actually think it will hit above 220kcd. Around 300 kcd and 4000 lumens is my guess. I have a nl40vn with a flat white 2mm. It does 320kcd

I agree, I’m expecting 300kcd. That’s serious output!

But can a 26650 run 4K+ lumens very well and efficiently on turbo?

why wouldnt it ? a 26650 highdrain can easy run a d4s quad emitters no problem…

So in other words, this response was misinformed? Since it can’t do 4K+ at all, not to mention very well or efficiently on turbo….

BaronVonEissler
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Hi BLF. I was long time lurker.My name is Baron.

This is a 26650 light. That is why 21700 battery gets damaged and so can springs. My friend has FT03. He got same results with that light when using 21700.

You will sacrifice run time, but I believe the best 26650 if you want max output will be the Golisi 26650 4300 35Amp Or the Aspire 26650 4300mAh[rated 30Amp by “Mooch”].

Cheers

Xenovora
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Welcome Baron, and thank you for your insightful response and battery recommendations!

So can someone share the ratios of output/battery capacity gained/lost between the Shockli 5500 and the Golisi 4300?

In other words, how many more OTF lumens are gained and for how much longer will it sustain said max OTF, compared to the total capacity sacrificed?

We talking closer to 2% more lumens for -25% capacity? Or more like 15% more lumens for -20% capacity?

Tubercle
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I promise you, there’s no way you’ll be able to return the batteries.

Tom E
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Yep, the GOLISI, and other re-labeled equivalents, are the best performance 26650 cell. Comparisons all depend on the power draw. Look at the battery comparison of the Shockli vs. the 40T - at 5A draw, not much difference, but at 30A, big difference. But the Shockli at 20A maintains the full 5500 capacity which is pretty incredible.

I don't know what the amp draw is for this SBT90.2 version, think it's pretty high though like 15-20A, maybe?

 

BaronVonEissler
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@ Xenovora. Thanks

Beer

I do not know. Others on here are more knowledgeable.

Here is a comparison with another light between the Golisi and the Vapcell 5500[PLB-55A].

My friend Otto who has the FT03 also modified a Mateminco MT35 w/ XHP50.2. He said it is 4000 lumens at turn on with Golisi and only about 3100 at turn on with Vapcell. That alone will show how much more initial output the Golisi provides.

SKV89
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Xenovora wrote:
WHAT D: What’s up with that….. I wasn’t aware of such poor performance of the Shockli… is there another fitting 26650 that puts out comparable output for the claimed 5k lumens?

Now I may have to refund these two batteries… potential headache lol. Only had to return one mail item in my life. Well actually a need for more but I couldn’t bring myself to jump through all the hoops so Ive kept many unsatisfactory online purchases unfortunately.

I wish I could read German.

I have multiple Shockli 26650 5500mah and Vapcell 26650 5500mah. They are the best high capacity 26650 in existence and still has very high current for its capacity. Both are same cells, which I tested closer to 6,000mah. If it makes 3,750 lumens with the Shockli, the output is not bad considering my Acebeam K75 with 4 high drain VTC5D only makes 4,100 lumens. I ordered this flashlight the moment I was sent the code so I will test it to see once I receive it. I might have to buy some Golisi 4300mah. Looking at HKJ’s comparator, it’s performance should be close to the 40T but it won’t crush the springs or get crushed since it is a 26650, which this light is designed to fit.

Rayoui
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I’d like to know in what order the measurements were taken. If the 40T was tested first, it could have damaged the springs which would explain the lower than expected performance with the Shockli 5500mAh.

Th558
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Rayoui wrote:
I’d like to know in what order the measurements were taken. If the 40T was tested first, it could have damaged the springs which would explain the lower than expected performance with the Shockli 5500mAh.

Hmm…never though of that. The performance difference does seem quite normal though when you look at HKJs 20A chart. I don’t think mine’s shipped yet but I’ll test the amps when I get it. Max output should be a bit above 22.5A.
Xenovora
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Tom E wrote:

Yep, the GOLISI, and other re-labeled equivalents, are the best performance 26650 cell. Comparisons all depend on the power draw. Look at the battery comparison of the Shockli vs. the 40T – at 5A draw, not much difference, but at 30A, big difference. But the Shockli at 20A maintains the full 5500 capacity which is pretty incredible.


I don’t know what the amp draw is for this SBT90.2 version, think it’s pretty high though like 15-20A, maybe?


 

So there’s a potential that the SBT90.2 only draws 20A and the Shockli could be better after all, since 30A may never exist in the NI40?

Tom E
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Th558 above says should be 22.5A or better - not sure how he knows that. The Shockli won't be "better", if better means higher amps at full charge. Did you look at the discharge curves from HKJ's comparator?

There's a tendency by some around here to recommend the Shockli as the best battery ever, but clearly it's no where near the performance champ for the first few seconds at full charge. It's got great discharge characteristics though over the full discharge cycle, making it a great candidate for general use - again, not for max output use in the short run.

Xenovora
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I can deal with a “few seconds” just not 10-60 seconds haha. We’ll have to wait until output over time graphs come out for the NI40 using diff batteries to show just how sharply the curve begins.

Yes, I looked at the comparator curves but it’s not entirely clear to me still.

Tom E
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Xenovora wrote:
I can deal with a “few seconds” just not 10-60 seconds haha. We’ll have to wait until output over time graphs come out for the NI40 using diff batteries to show just how sharply the curve begins. Yes, I looked at the comparator curves but it’s not entirely clear to me still.

Well for these kind of lights that are FET driven, higher voltage on those curves mean higher amps, which means higher lumens/throw. It's not a direct relationship however, so doubling the amps doesn't mean doubling the lumens - it's lower than double, and at higher amps, it could be much lower than double. Basically you lose efficiency the higher the amps are. So we tend to push the LED's way past their rated max, and once you get into that territory, the gains are less. I'm sure heat is a factor in the reduced output.

For the batt discharge curves, we want to see the voltage as high as possible for the full discharge. If you look at various know good cells vs. avg cells, at differing amp levels, you can see the better cells will have higher voltage curves.

Take a look at a Samsung 30Q vs. a 30T, then look at the 1A level, then the 20A level. At 1A, almost the same, but at 20A the 30T far exceeds the 30Q. Those 0.2V/0.25V differences makes a big difference in amps.

Th558
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Tom E wrote:

Th558 above says should be 22.5A or better – not sure how he knows that. comparator?


I got it from a graph in the datasheet you posted. I’m not sure if it’s correct but it showed the voltage and Relative Luminous Flux.
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Ahh, ok. The charts on page 7 here: SBT90.2 LED Spec. They kind of end at 22.5 amps, and it seems like the Vf would be low enough to be obtainable on a good FET driver. We'll have to see. I'm wondering now about the Acebeam TK75 getting a rated 6300 lumens. They would have to hit at least 30 amps to do so. Specs could be overrated.

To me, this light may very well need a GOLISI cell. The amps out of a single cell is crazy, about as much as my triple XHP50.2 3V Amutorch X9, custom modded of course... I hit just over 30 amps on a GOLISI in that light. But i also get about double the lumens (11K-12K or so).

 

BaronVonEissler
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Tom E wrote:
To me, this light may very well need a GOLISI cell. The amps out of a single cell is crazy, about as much as my triple XHP50.2 3V Amutorch X9, custom modded of course… I hit just over 30 amps on a GOLISI in that light. But i also get about double the lumens (11K-12K or so

I agree and I am prepared. Also have 4 X Aspire 26650 4300 as back up. All brand new cells.

Xenovora
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Where is the best place to buy a fresh GOLISI 26650?

contactcr
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Without some kind of high current spacer no one should expect such a high current light to support both sizes. The size difference is just too big to maintain proper contact for both sizes.

Even bypassed springs will work better when there is higher spring pressure on the terminals. All things equal the shorter battery will always be inferior in such a setup. They need to just stop advertising support for both.

Th558
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Are the Golisi 4300, Aspire 4300 and Shockli 4300 the same cell? According to HKJs graphs the Shockli seems a bit worse than the Golisi in the first 700mah. Are they normal variations in performance or are they different cells?

Edit: Mooch says the iJoy, Aspire and Golisi appear to be the same cell though in HKJs test the iJoy seems to perform a bit worse than the Shockli/Golisi.

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