Light Bulb CRI_Grades

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Joshk
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staticx57 wrote:
With something like TM-30 including a wider and deeper sample base the Rf means a lot more than CRI Ra.

Actually, it seems opposite to me. By including too many samples that average the same, you dilute the significance of R9 and R12, where the real differences are.

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Having used a few bulbs that were below the BBL, I’m really not a fan for home/area lighting, if there’s any sunlight or other light sources it makes them look strange and artificial, and they make all other light sources look super green in comparison (even my calibrated computer monitor) which defeats the purpose IMO.

Low-CRI and -duv would be even worse, they look like fluorescents and I’d deal with swapping incandescent bulbs before going back to that, same reason I stick with high-CRI in my flashlights. The lack of much of the spectrum is immediately apparent to me personally.

Reminder that sunlight, fires, etc. (all the light sources we have evolved to be used to) are on or above the BBL. Rosy tint shouldn’t be taken as objectively desirable for all environments, that’s why Nichia for example offers specific tints and spectrum profiles for different types of retail, groceries, etc.

Joshk
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Sunlight is usually a lot higher CCT than any bulbs you can buy. What CCT are you using?
And I’m with you on not being impressed by rosy tints.

Also, on a super interesting note, I have the backlights from 2 PC monitors in that table! “DELL” is my PC, and “HP ENVY” is my wife’s. I opened Notepad to make a white screen, them measured with the meter against the screen.

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Joshk wrote:
RobertB wrote:
Joshk wrote:
I wasn’t able to find the CRI data for those. But Ra and R9 are stated to be 95. That would seem like a good start, but by looking at the TM-30 diagram, it seems other colors are lacking. But if you like them they can’t be too bad.

Did you open the LM79 test report? And where did you buy the Sunlike bulbs?

I don’t even know what LM79 is. As noted in the OP, the ones that have a * by them were not tested by me.
After seeing this table though, I did place an order for a SunLike bulb. It’s just curiosity for me though, as the 6w cost me $22 for a single bulb. Each room of my house requires 4 or 5 bulbs.
You’ve probably seem me recommending Hyperikon in a few threads. This isn’t because their performance is perfect, it isn’t, it’s because their performance vs price is unbeaten.

You have to open the LM79 doc in the link I posted for you. It’s a complete lab assessment of the bulb

I’ve never heard you recommend the hyperikon bulbs either. Where did you buy the Sunlike bulb? link?

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Hello Joshk, I saw you also started a topic regarding High CRI bulbs. Great initiative, you know how much I'm also looking forward to that!

May I suggest that instead of having two topics on BLF for a common subject, we unit our energy and efforts towards one community goal? As proposed and already started in the other topic, I'm pleased to discuss formula/scale, bulbs, or any other matter.

Rise and Shine my precious...

Joshk
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RobertB wrote:
You have to open the LM79 doc in the link I posted for you. It’s a complete lab assessment of the bulb

I’ve never heard you recommend the hyperikon bulbs either. Where did you buy the Sunlike bulb? link?

Ah, I see. That page has 16 links, I didn’t notice some were LM79. Thanks. It’s interesting. It seems to focus mainly on brightness in different rooms with different paint and flooring.

I bought the SunLike from http://sunlikelamp.com/

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fneuf wrote:

Hello Joshk, I saw you also started a topic regarding High CRI bulbs. Great initiative, you know how much I’m also looking forward to that!

May I suggest that instead of having two topics on BLF for a common subject, we unit our energy and efforts towards one community goal? As proposed and already started in the other topic, I’m pleased to discuss formula/scale, bulbs, or any other matter.

Sorry if you didn’t like the split, it wasn’t my intention. I didn’t want to spam the subscribers with my CRI_Grade proposal and discussion. Plus it could cause fatal confusion between your Qfactor and my CRI_Grade.
As you may know, BLF has no way to delete or merge threads.

Everyone, go ahead and keep posting interesting new light bulb finds on fneuf’s thread. This will remain a CRI_Grade thread.

staticx57
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Joshk wrote:
staticx57 wrote:
With something like TM-30 including a wider and deeper sample base the Rf means a lot more than CRI Ra.

Actually, it seems opposite to me. By including too many samples that average the same, you dilute the significance of R9 and R12, where the real differences are.

Is the point to point out which lights have high R9?

TMI-30 includes additional output for situational measurement such as skin tones. Besides R9 not existing in TM-30 or CQS Wouldn’t it be better to base our BLF database on a more updated methodology?

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staticx57 wrote:
Joshk wrote:
staticx57 wrote:
With something like TM-30 including a wider and deeper sample base the Rf means a lot more than CRI Ra.

Actually, it seems opposite to me. By including too many samples that average the same, you dilute the significance of R9 and R12, where the real differences are.

Is the point to point out which lights have high R9?

TMI-30 includes additional output for situational measurement such as skin tones. Besides R9 not existing in TM-30 or CQS Wouldn’t it be better to base our BLF database on a more updated methodology?

I like the TM-30 diagrams (picture form), but the Rf and Rg it get summarized into are so in-sensitive I don’t find them very useful.

fneuf, can you please add a CRI_Grade column to your data so we can see how it performs?

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Joshk wrote:
Sunlight is usually a lot higher CCT than any bulbs you can buy. What CCT are you using?

The only one higher than 3000K is a 5000K bulb in a flexible neck overhead light above my desk. Differences in temp are far less annoying than tint/duv to me, I don’t mind using 2700K lighting indoors on a cloudy (>6000K sunlight) day.

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Ick. Do you know what they are or where you bought them? I’m wondering who sells junk like that in 2019.

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Joshk wrote:
Sunlight is usually a lot higher CCT than any bulbs you can buy. What CCT are you using?
And I'm with you on not being impressed by rosy tints.

Sunlight covers nearly all CCTs, it just depends on the hour of the day and atmospheric conditions. On a clear day at dawn or sunset ≈3000K, ≈3500K one hour before sunset, etc.

I particularly tend to go for warm or neutral CCTs, and I think I'm not bothered by green tints too much because I have a custom lamp built with 4000K CRI90+ LH351Ds (from first AEDe group buy batches, T6/T7), considered greeny by others, and I'm fine with it. 

The Light Innocent I am

Deleting a post and redoing it causes the forum thread answer notifications to become invalid. Thus, if you need to change your just published post, edit it. Thanks.

Please avoid quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim the quote down to the essential. Helps with forum neatness and legibility. Thanks.

BurningPlayd0h
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Joshk wrote:
Ick. Do you know what they are or where you bought them? I’m wondering who sells junk like that in 2019.

Huh? I purposely bought the 5000K from Waveform to have neutral white work area lighting I can use when I want something closer to sunlight.

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“Junk” is a strong word tbh.

I think there is a chart that suggests how people reacts towards light with different CCTs and intensities.

At least, right up until 6500k, the higher the intensities the higher the CCTs should be or the light feels “too hot”. The reverse is also true, the higher the CCT, the higher the intensities should be, lest the lights looks too cold and depressing.

Well, yeah it’s the Kruithof curve. You need at least 300 lux of the light to make 5000k looks somewhat pleasant. According to this theory, if you feel the light looks too cold, you need to add more light to it. On the other hand, if you don’t need any more brightness, you would then need to swap it with a “warmer” lights.

 

Searching for High CRI leds since 2010...

 

Has finally gotten to the bottom after 10 years of delving deep into that rabbit hole of them high CRI lights...

 

High CRI, high quality lights doesn't need to be expensive, or is it?

 

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Joshk wrote:
Ick. Do you know what they are or where you bought them? I’m wondering who sells junk like that in 2019.

Huh? I purposely bought the 5000K from Waveform to have neutral white work area lighting I can use when I want something closer to sunlight.

I must have misread your post. I understood your bulbs had a strong green tint. It reminded me of the green light bulbs my grandparents have. It’s hard to focus on the conversation when all you can thing is “turn it off! turn it off!”.

rngwn wrote:
“Junk” is a strong word tbh.

Not after you see it.
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I live where 765 fluorescent lights are the standard, 865 is sold as a “premium” product. 840/830’s are a rare find where the 640/530 fluorescents are everywhere. If I buy the warm white fluorescents in the supermarkets nearby, I will most likely get ones with only 50 CRI. Facepalm

Pretty much anything should be an upgrade I guess (as long as the tint is not outright terrible).

 

Searching for High CRI leds since 2010...

 

Has finally gotten to the bottom after 10 years of delving deep into that rabbit hole of them high CRI lights...

 

High CRI, high quality lights doesn't need to be expensive, or is it?

 

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Joshk wrote:
fneuf wrote:

Hello Joshk, I saw you also started a topic regarding High CRI bulbs. Great initiative, you know how much I'm also looking forward to that!

May I suggest that instead of having two topics on BLF for a common subject, we unit our energy and efforts towards one community goal? As proposed and already started in the other topic, I'm pleased to discuss formula/scale, bulbs, or any other matter.

Sorry if you didn't like the split, it wasn't my intention. I didn't want to spam the subscribers with my CRI_Grade proposal and discussion. Plus it could cause fatal confusion between your Qfactor and my CRI_Grade. As you may know, BLF has no way to delete or merge threads. Everyone, go ahead and keep posting interesting new light bulb finds on fneuf's thread. This will remain a CRI_Grade thread.

 

I'm totally happy if we can advance together on a perfect way to compare bulbs. And as such your dedicated topic on a grade is interesting. It's just that if we have two separate tables on BLF for the same subject, with the same meaning, quite very probably the same bulbs, but just using a different ordering formula, it will mainly be confusing. And in the overall both of us will loose time maintining those, members will not know where to declare new bulbs/tests, nobody we'll be sure what's the latest, and so on. Everybody will loose energy, readers will loose exhaustivity, etc.

 

So if we can converge on something built together that will be perfect. For instance if you feel it, I'd be glad to grant you update rights on the sheet document initiated in the other topic. And you can add there the CRI_grade, bulbs, or whatnot. I'm sincerely opened.

My intent here is to build something greater apon all our motivations, ensure we don't "spoil ressources." I'm convinced we can build something great together for BLF, by joining efforts.

Rise and Shine my precious...

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Nearly all of the lights in our house are GU10. I’ve got Soraa Vivids in a few critical locations. They fantastic and reliable but they are £29 each

Soraa Vivid is CRI 95, R9/95, Rf/90, Rg/100 7.5 and 435lm but £29 each. Soraa also have a 9W 490lm version at £32 each.

Philips Master Expert Colour 5.5W 3000k Order Code 70769200 are much better value for money. They are £8.30 each,

CRI 97 375lm 800cd. Philips do not specifiy R9, Rf or Rg but they give us a graph:

Joshk
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fneuf wrote:

Joshk wrote:
fneuf wrote:

Hello Joshk, I saw you also started a topic regarding High CRI bulbs. Great initiative, you know how much I’m also looking forward to that!

May I suggest that instead of having two topics on BLF for a common subject, we unit our energy and efforts towards one community goal? As proposed and already started in the other topic, I’m pleased to discuss formula/scale, bulbs, or any other matter.


Sorry if you didn’t like the split, it wasn’t my intention. I didn’t want to spam the subscribers with my CRI_Grade proposal and discussion. Plus it could cause fatal confusion between your Qfactor and my CRI_Grade. As you may know, BLF has no way to delete or merge threads. Everyone, go ahead and keep posting interesting new light bulb finds on fneuf’s thread. This will remain a CRI_Grade thread.

 


I’m totally happy if we can advance together on a perfect way to compare bulbs. And as such your dedicated topic on a grade is interesting. It’s just that if we have two separate tables on BLF for the same subject, with the same meaning, quite very probably the same bulbs, but just using a different ordering formula, it will mainly be confusing. And in the overall both of us will loose time maintining those, members will not know where to declare new bulbs/tests, nobody we’ll be sure what’s the latest, and so on. Everybody will loose energy, readers will loose exhaustivity, etc.


 


So if we can converge on something built together that will be perfect. For instance if you feel it, I’d be glad to grant you update rights on the sheet document initiated in the other topic. And you can add there the CRI_grade, bulbs, or whatnot. I’m sincerely opened.


My intent here is to build something greater apon all our motivations, ensure we don’t “spoil ressources.” I’m convinced we can build something great together for BLF, by joining efforts.

I originally created my table for personal use. To sort in interesting new finds on the internet against the 40 some meter readings I had from around my house. It worked so good I wanted to share it.
I’m sorry you feel that way, I don’t see it as a competition. Hopefully we can get them both into the same table and continue the discussion.

Joshk
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Andrew_Debbie wrote:
Nearly all of the lights in our house are GU10. I’ve got Soraa Vivids in a few critical locations. They fantastic and reliable but they are £29 each

Soraa Vivid is CRI 95, R9/95, Rf/90, Rg/100 7.5 and 435lm but £29 each. Soraa also have a 9W 490lm version at £32 each.
Philips Master Expert Colour 5.5W 3000k Order Code 70769200 are much better value for money. They are £8.30 each,
CRI 97 375lm 800cd. Philips do not specifiy R9, Rf or Rg but they give us a graph:

Wow, that’s like $37 USD per bulb! And this is the first time I seen a company smooth a TM-30 diagram too, hmm. I’m glad you’re happy with them, but the missing numbers surely pull them out of the A grade category. I would recommend getting a cheaper SunLike GU10 and comparing.

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Andrew_Debbie wrote:
Nearly all of the lights in our house are GU10. I've got Soraa Vivids in a few critical locations. They fantastic and reliable but they are £29 each *Soraa Vivid* is CRI 95, R9/95, Rf/90, Rg/100 7.5 and 435lm but £29 *each*. Soraa also have a 9W 490lm version at £32 each. !{width:50%}https://i.imgur.com/ppbnRap.png!:https://i.imgur.com/ppbnRap.png *Philips Master Expert Colour* 5.5W 3000k Order Code 70769200 are much better value for money. They are £8.30 each, *CRI 97* 375lm 800cd. Philips do not specifiy R9, Rf or Rg but they give us a graph: !{width:50%}https://i.imgur.com/onP8Dv3.jpg!:https://i.imgur.com/onP8Dv3.jpg

 

Yes, those Philips Master ExpertColor bulbs are very good. Especially because they are also available with 4000K (much better for home lighting during daytime than warm white CCTs). The 4000K ones are not perfect though, they have a positive Duv and a rather tight emission angle. I added heat resistant minus-green Filters and DC-Fix diffusion foil to mine. The warm-white models probably don't need any correction.

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Joshk wrote:
I originally created my table for personal use. To sort in interesting new finds on the internet against the 40 some meter readings I had from around my house. It worked so good I wanted to share it. I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't see it as a competition. Hopefully we can get them both into the same table and continue the discussion.

 

I would say we are on the same mindset, but you might have misinterpreted the tone of my previous message.

I'm precisely proposing in it to offer you modification access to the table. Just let's do that together!

Rise and Shine my precious...

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Joshk][quote=Andrew_Debbie wrote:

Wow, that’s like $37 USD per bulb! And this is the first time I seen a company smooth a TM-30 diagram too, hmm. I’m glad you’re happy with them, but the missing numbers surely pull them out of the A grade category. I would recommend getting a cheaper SunLike GU10 and comparing.

I think they are primarly aimed at high end retail display lighting and art galaries.

I’m not going to be buying any more Soraa Vivids unless the price comes waaaay down. They are a bit brighter than the Philips Master ExpertColor. Other than that there isn’t much difference.

I’ll see how well the Philips LEDs hold up. I’ve only had them about 6 months.

I did a quick google search and I could only find SunLike GU10s on AliExpress. It is hard to know what is fake or safe on AliExpress. A bad one could be a fire hazard, especially here in 240V land.

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They seem to be made by one man alone, and he’s not on AliExpress that I know. They are hard to order, you need to use a translator on his site to order. But they are made in 240V land, so no worries.

-Adam, if you are reading this, please create an english-language thread in the Seller section so I can link to it when I talk about your bulbs.

This is his site: http://sunlikelamp.com/

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I posted all of my LED strips and bulbs test results in this thread. They are mostly LED strips.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/70010

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ooh, I love ambient lighting. I’ll add everything I can. I see some don’t have R12 listed though.

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Joshk wrote:
ooh, I love ambient lighting. I’ll add everything I can. I see some don’t have R12 listed though.

Unfortunately most don’t have R12 because these were tested months ago. Going forward, I will include R12 in my measurements.

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I see, sounds good. Depending on your meter, you might be able to save all your measurements to your PC for later reference too.

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Here’s your posted data, sorted, SKV89. Only 3 had the R12 data needed for a proper CRI_Grade. But in an attempt to sort what was left, I created an R12 value equal to R9.

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As asked, I added my “average” and CRI_Grade to fneuf’s spreadsheet so we can compare the results:

It seems both Qfactor and CRI_Grade came up with scores within 1% of each other for the most part. The most notable differences are the Qfactor boxes I highlighted in grey (in the middle). This is where the Qfactor formula bugged because Rf data is not available.

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