Noctigon K1 info / review

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Orbik
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Thanks for the info!

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Orbik wrote:
Hi guys, thinking of buying it and wondered what is the inner tube diameter of this light? Have some rewrapped vapcell batteries and I am not sure if they’ll fit…

On mine, it measures 21.8 mm inner diameter. I tried a thick-wrapped cell with 21.8 mm outer diameter, and there’s just enough space for the cell to work without getting stuck. It slides out easily with just gravity.

Orbik
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Then my batteries fill fit fine. Just ordered the light. Green color looks pretty amazing and culpm1 led should work just great…Now the hard part, which is waiting lol…

niajef
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just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90…will it ever go back down? lol

and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Tom E
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niajef wrote:
just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90...will it ever go back down? lol and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Yea, it's a bit pricey with no offered discounts but it's got some pricey parts:

  • USB-C charging built in to the battery carrier - because it's separate, maybe worth $10 extra
  • large SS bezel - BG charges big bucks for large SS bezels for their lights (~ $9 for FT03), so another $10 there
  • driver - pretty special with PWM-less current regulation and FET (another $10-$15 extra), plus multi-color AUX LED support using the more advanced 1634 MCU
niajef
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Tom E wrote:

niajef wrote:
just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90…will it ever go back down? lol and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Yea, it’s a bit pricey with no offered discounts but it’s got some pricey parts:

  • USB-C charging built in to the battery carrier – because it’s separate, maybe worth $10 extra
  • large SS bezel – BG charges big bucks for large SS bezels for their lights (~ $9 for FT03), so another $10 there
  • driver – pretty special with PWM-less current regulation and FET (another $10-$15 extra), plus multi-color AUX LED support using the more advanced 1634 MCU

do u know if it supports USB C-C PD charging?

Tom E
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Dunno what that means - does TK mention it in the OP review?

niajef
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Tom E wrote:

Dunno what that means – does TK mention it in the OP review?

you know how lights like sofirn sc31 pro has USB-A to USB-C charging cable? i heard most flashlights with USB-C port only allows this type of charging, and does not allow USB-C to USB-C cable, which given the right cable and wall adaptor/power bank, can use PD (Power delivery), and charge things up super fast.

he did not mention it in the “review”, well technically he does, but he doesn’t know:

Quote:
About USB-C compatibility, I have no idea whether it supports any standards which are specific to USB-C. I don’t have any chargers or cables which support that, so I haven’t tested it.
Artiet59
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Tom E wrote:

niajef wrote:
just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90…will it ever go back down? lol and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Yea, it’s a bit pricey with no offered discounts but it’s got some pricey parts:



  • USB-C charging built in to the battery carrier – because it’s separate, maybe worth $10 extra

  • large SS bezel – BG charges big bucks for large SS bezels for their lights (~ $9 for FT03), so another $10 there

  • driver – pretty special with PWM-less current regulation and FET (another $10-$15 extra), plus multi-color AUX LED support using the more advanced 1634 MCU


Plus, for what it’s worth it appears Hank has upgraded the W1 and W2 emitters recently! I don’t know if that’s worth extra ching, but I know it has very recently tipped me over the edge on wether to buy the K1 with a Osram emitter! Also, the (new?) convoy L21a with CULPM1 goes for ~$45.. I think comparing the K1 to that light shows the value of the K1 @ $90.. Well really they’re both good values, but still..
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Artiet59 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

niajef wrote:
just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90…will it ever go back down? lol and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Yea, it’s a bit pricey with no offered discounts but it’s got some pricey parts:

  • USB-C charging built in to the battery carrier – because it’s separate, maybe worth $10 extra
  • large SS bezel – BG charges big bucks for large SS bezels for their lights (~ $9 for FT03), so another $10 there
  • driver – pretty special with PWM-less current regulation and FET (another $10-$15 extra), plus multi-color AUX LED support using the more advanced 1634 MCU
Plus, for what it’s worth it appears Hank has upgraded the W1 and W2 emitters recently! I don’t know if that’s worth extra ching, but I know it has very recently tipped me over the edge on wether to buy the K1 with a Osram emitter! Also, the (new?) convoy L21a with CULPM1 goes for ~$45.. I think comparing the K1 to that light shows the value of the K1 @ $90.. Well really they’re both good values, but still..

wait, i havent looked into the L21a, but if you say comparing that to k1, it shows value of k1 at 90, then doesnt that mean L21a quality/performance isnt worth the 45 price point? lol

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Yea, those OSRAM's are more $$$. I hope he tuned up the amps if the new LED's can take more amps. The original W1 K1 was set to 4.9 amps max.

For the USB-C issue, I don't have a K1 with me now but I should test it out on a USB-C connector. Assuming I could just use a USB-C/USB-C cable to a tablet or laptop.

Shame that Hank's listing on the K1 is leaving out so much of the spec's on the K1, because they are "pro" specs, not cons, like PWM-less regulation. It probably has the proper USB-C support but it's just not listed.

niajef
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Tom E wrote:

Yea, those OSRAM’s are more $$$. I hope he tuned up the amps if the new LED’s can take more amps. The original W1 K1 was set to 4.9 amps max.


For the USB-C issue, I don’t have a K1 with me now but I should test it out on a USB-C connector. Assuming I could just use a USB-C/USB-C cable to a tablet or laptop.


Shame that Hank’s listing on the K1 is leaving out so much of the spec’s on the K1, because they are “pro” specs, not cons, like PWM-less regulation. It probably has the proper USB-C support but it’s just not listed.

where can we reach hank for these kind of questions? besides straight up email

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I use his "contact" email address on his site and he's been pretty good to get back to me, may take a day or two. Actually I emailed him last night on couple things requested but he did not respond yet.

You could also try posting to his thread - seems to monitor it regularly and reply on it - http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1707153#comment-1707153

 

Artiet59
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niajef wrote:
Artiet59 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

niajef wrote:
just found this thread, it released last year at 80 usd, now its 90…will it ever go back down? lol and im assuming 21700 is a much better battery for it than 18650?

Yea, it’s a bit pricey with no offered discounts but it’s got some pricey parts:

  • USB-C charging built in to the battery carrier – because it’s separate, maybe worth $10 extra
  • large SS bezel – BG charges big bucks for large SS bezels for their lights (~ $9 for FT03), so another $10 there
  • driver – pretty special with PWM-less current regulation and FET (another $10-$15 extra), plus multi-color AUX LED support using the more advanced 1634 MCU
Plus, for what it’s worth it appears Hank has upgraded the W1 and W2 emitters recently! I don’t know if that’s worth extra ching, but I know it has very recently tipped me over the edge on wether to buy the K1 with a Osram emitter! Also, the (new?) convoy L21a with CULPM1 goes for ~$45.. I think comparing the K1 to that light shows the value of the K1 @ $90.. Well really they’re both good values, but still..

wait, i havent looked into the L21a, but if you say comparing that to k1, it shows value of k1 at 90, then doesnt that mean L21a quality/performance isnt worth the 45 price point? lol

Yea by the time i ended my above ^ thought I realized it was not really clear. I meant to say that – for $45 the convoy (Seems, i dont own it) like a good value because of the emitter, specially designed driver (8amps), nice styling, and acclaimed reputation. The K1 @ $90 (Seems, i dont own it) like a good value because of large / unihead host (more difficult machining feat), specially designed driver, on board charging, “extra’s” like SS bezel that TomE mentioned, Anduril/completely customizable UI, and Noctigon’s acclaimed reputation of being High End and well thought out. In my mind, i would always expect a Noctigon to be at a higher price point then a convoy because of the two companies placement in the market, the customer base they’re aiming at, R&D, and other factors i will probably never understand about flashlights Silly

niajef
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Tom E wrote:

I use his “contact” email address on his site and he’s been pretty good to get back to me, may take a day or two. Actually I emailed him last night on couple things requested but he did not respond yet.


You could also try posting to his thread – seems to monitor it regularly and reply on it - http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1707153#comment-1707153


 

oh ok thanks, ill try the thread first, maybe other people have that answer too

Artiet59
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Tom E wrote:

Yea, those OSRAM’s are more $$$. I hope he tuned up the amps if the new LED’s can take more amps. The original W1 K1 was set to 4.9 amps max.


For the USB-C issue, I don’t have a K1 with me now but I should test it out on a USB-C connector. Assuming I could just use a USB-C/USB-C cable to a tablet or laptop.


Shame that Hank’s listing on the K1 is leaving out so much of the spec’s on the K1, because they are “pro” specs, not cons, like PWM-less regulation. It probably has the proper USB-C support but it’s just not listed.


I was hoping that too, about the driver and max amps for the new osrams… I see Hank updated the KCD on the W2.2, but not the lumens… (fingers crossed).
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Ok, just tested out the K1 and a few other lights on USB C<->C, and USB C<->A compatibility, results:

 

K1: Both

FT03 Mini SST-40: Both

FT03 Mini W1: Both

FT03: only C<->A

MF01 Mini: only C<->A

SP36: only C<->A

SP33 V3: only C<->A

HK04: only C<->A

NA40: only C<->A

IF25A: only C<->A

For the C<->C, I used a USB-C wall adapter. For the C<->A, I used a USB type A wall adapter. 

Didn't test amps, so not sure it proves the C<->C lights charge at higher amps or not. The wall adapter rating is 3 amps at 5 volts.

Conclusion:  So the better (newer?) lights seem to work properly. Not surprised the Astrolux and Sofirn lights did not work - little older models, lower budget lights. 

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niajef wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Dunno what that means - does TK mention it in the OP review?

you know how lights like sofirn sc31 pro has USB-A to USB-C charging cable? i heard most flashlights with USB-C port only allows this type of charging, and does not allow USB-C to USB-C cable, which given the right cable and wall adaptor/power bank, can use PD (Power delivery), and charge things up super fast. he did not mention it in the "review", well technically he does, but he doesn't know:
Quote:
About USB-C compatibility, I have no idea whether it supports any standards which are specific to USB-C. I don’t have any chargers or cables which support that, so I haven’t tested it.

TK is female btw... surprisedsmile

niajef
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Tom E wrote:

niajef wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Dunno what that means – does TK mention it in the OP review?


you know how lights like sofirn sc31 pro has USB-A to USB-C charging cable? i heard most flashlights with USB-C port only allows this type of charging, and does not allow USB-C to USB-C cable, which given the right cable and wall adaptor/power bank, can use PD (Power delivery), and charge things up super fast. he did not mention it in the “review”, well technically he does, but he doesn’t know:
Quote:
About USB-C compatibility, I have no idea whether it supports any standards which are specific to USB-C. I don’t have any chargers or cables which support that, so I haven’t tested it.

TK is female btw… surprisedsmile

oh my bad, lol

man i didnt even know there was a ft03 mini! i already ordered the ft03…i hope the mini performance is a lot worse so i dont regret my decision lol

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The mini w/SST-40 is a great light, but the FT03 is also a great deal. The mini w/SST-40 or XHP50.2 is a totally different driver from the Mini NM1. The SST-40 and XHP50.2 version has color AUX LED's in the reflector around the main LED - pretty cool.

All FT03 models here. Ooops! Forgot this is the K1 thread -- of course they don't compare to the quality and value of the K1 smile

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Tom E wrote:

Ok, just tested out the K1 and a few other lights on USB C<->C, and USB C<->A compatibility, results:


 


K1: Both


FT03 Mini SST-40: Both


FT03 Mini W1: Both


FT03: only C<->A


MF01 Mini: only C<->A


SP36: only C<->A


SP33 V3: only C<->A


HK04: only C<->A


NA40: only C<->A


IF25A: only C<->A


For the C<->C, I used a USB-C wall adapter. For the C<->A, I used a USB type A wall adapter. 


Didn’t test amps, so not sure it proves the C<->C lights charge at higher amps or not. The wall adapter rating is 3 amps at 5 volts.


Conclusion:  So the better (newer?) lights seem to work properly. Not surprised the Astrolux and Sofirn lights did not work – little older models, lower budget lights. 


So i dont really understand this.. or what i mean is, what does A->C mean, versus C->C ? I have the hk04 (sst40 version, bought 2 months ago), and i plug in my usb-c cable to it which is plugged into a QC3.0 block wall charger and it charges. I never pay enough attention to notice if it charges “quickly” or not, but it charges all the same. i have seen it before on blf before where people mention that something is not “true usb-c” and that it is usb-a to c. What does this mean?

EDIT: Thank You TomE for doing the tests and giving these results!

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I think i just realized the answer to my question.. and my confusion came from lack of intelligence and meager understanding of basic electrical technology .. correct me if im wrong, but a true usb-c would have the usb-c connection on the wall block as well? what made me realize this was re-reading TomE’s OP-

..“For the C<->C, I used a USB-C wall adapter. For the C<->A, I used a USB type A wall adapter. “

and remembering ive seen wall blocks (very sledomly) with the usb-c plug in on them.

Nevermind..

niajef
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Artiet59 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Ok, just tested out the K1 and a few other lights on USB C<->C, and USB C<->A compatibility, results:


 


K1: Both


FT03 Mini SST-40: Both


FT03 Mini W1: Both


FT03: only C<->A


MF01 Mini: only C<->A


SP36: only C<->A


SP33 V3: only C<->A


HK04: only C<->A


NA40: only C<->A


IF25A: only C<->A


For the C<->C, I used a USB-C wall adapter. For the C<->A, I used a USB type A wall adapter. 


Didn’t test amps, so not sure it proves the C<->C lights charge at higher amps or not. The wall adapter rating is 3 amps at 5 volts.


Conclusion:  So the better (newer?) lights seem to work properly. Not surprised the Astrolux and Sofirn lights did not work – little older models, lower budget lights. 


So i dont really understand this.. or what i mean is, what does A->C mean, versus C->C ? I have the hk04 (sst40 version, bought 2 months ago), and i plug in my usb-c cable to it which is plugged into a QC3.0 block wall charger and it charges. I never pay enough attention to notice if it charges “quickly” or not, but it charges all the same. i have seen it before on blf before where people mention that something is not “true usb-c” and that it is usb-a to c. What does this mean?

EDIT: Thank You TomE for doing the tests and giving these results!

this is what usb a-c looks like, it means one end has a usb-a header, the other end has usb-c header, true usb-c would have usb-c on both ends of the cable. and i think only for true usb-c cables, it is possible to have technology like PD (power delivery) to charge things superfast. i found this link just off of a quick google search, havent read through it yet, theres probably other sites that explain it better, but thats the general gist

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You can’t charge the cell faster or at protocols that the chargers in the flashlights aren’t made to work with just because they can take a USB-C to USB-C cable.

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Hikelite wrote:
You can’t charge the cell faster or at protocols that the chargers in the flashlights aren’t made to work with just because they can take a USB-C to USB-C cable.

right, thats my original question, if the flashlight is built to be compatible with PD

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There is no PD on that charging chip, it is a max 2A current switching charger, so better than your typical linear charging chip. And also better as the charger is in contact with the host directly not sitting in the air without a direct contact with the host like many chargers in flashlights.

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niajef
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Hikelite wrote:
There is no PD on that charging chip, it is a max 2A current switching charger, so better than your typical linear charging chip. And also better as the charger is in contact with the host directly not sitting in the air without a direct contact with the host like many chargers in flashlights.

sorry im not sure i quite understand, what is current switching charger vs linear charging? and what is this direct contact with host?

Artiet59
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niajef wrote:
Artiet59 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Ok, just tested out the K1 and a few other lights on USB C<->C, and USB C<->A compatibility, results:


 


K1: Both


FT03 Mini SST-40: Both


FT03 Mini W1: Both


FT03: only C<->A


MF01 Mini: only C<->A


SP36: only C<->A


SP33 V3: only C<->A


HK04: only C<->A


NA40: only C<->A


IF25A: only C<->A


For the C<->C, I used a USB-C wall adapter. For the C<->A, I used a USB type A wall adapter. 


Didn’t test amps, so not sure it proves the C<->C lights charge at higher amps or not. The wall adapter rating is 3 amps at 5 volts.


Conclusion:  So the better (newer?) lights seem to work properly. Not surprised the Astrolux and Sofirn lights did not work – little older models, lower budget lights. 


So i dont really understand this.. or what i mean is, what does A->C mean, versus C->C ? I have the hk04 (sst40 version, bought 2 months ago), and i plug in my usb-c cable to it which is plugged into a QC3.0 block wall charger and it charges. I never pay enough attention to notice if it charges “quickly” or not, but it charges all the same. i have seen it before on blf before where people mention that something is not “true usb-c” and that it is usb-a to c. What does this mean?

EDIT: Thank You TomE for doing the tests and giving these results!

this is what usb a-c looks like, it means one end has a usb-a header, the other end has usb-c header, true usb-c would have usb-c on both ends of the cable. and i think only for true usb-c cables, it is possible to have technology like PD (power delivery) to charge things superfast. i found this link just off of a quick google search, havent read through it yet, theres probably other sites that explain it better, but thats the general gist

Thanks! Very helpful article. I never heard of PD until now.

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Linear charging means that the charging chip takes in the 5V input voltage and puts out 4.2V by burning the excess, these chips usually get pretty hot, like the TP4054. Switching charging turns the higher voltage into current, like a buck converter, these are much more efficient.

These two has nothing to do with what type of connector or cable the flashlight is compatible with.

When a flashlights takes C-C charging with a power delivery adapter it’s because there is some form of communication between the two and it request 5V (even a resistor works), because by default a power delivery charger doesn’t output any voltage or current.

When flashlights only takes A-C charging it’s basically a type C port in place of a micro USB, No changes internally.

We are in the middle of a transition era where some folks are already ditching everything USB A to use type C exclusively, but at the same time most people haven’t even heard about power delivery. I’m all in for power delivery for charging high energy devices, but USB A should never cease to exist. It’s robust, truly universal, easy to repair and will stay relevant for many years to come.

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