Coronavirus discussion thread

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Photon Master
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Yeah I think I’m gonna pass on the vaccine thing and just take my chances. I’m sure they’ll give it to the people who need it most anyway (old people, people with health issues, millionaires in Congress )

caramba
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Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

I have to admit it sounded like a peaceful life. Obviously he didn’t wear a mask (:

I bet you his name is Bret Hat
https://youtu.be/l-OgsFkE_ok?t=61

Photon Master
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Ha no different guy. Actually I gave him a Thrunite pocket thrower when we had him over for dinner. He was blown away when I shined my W30 LEP and Imalent MS18 outside and I realized I have some lights I haven’t used in ages. Guy loves to hunt and wants to take me out “spotting deer*. Seems like an excellent excuse to bust out some flashlights

caramba
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Photon Master wrote:
Ha no different guy. Actually I gave him a Thrunite pocket thrower when we had him over for dinner. He was blown away when I shined my W30 LEP and Imalent MS18 outside and I realized I have some lights I haven’t used in ages. Guy loves to hunt and wants to take me out “spotting deer*. Seems like an excellent excuse to bust out some flashlights

Sound like a fun thing to do, I have forgotten about mine as well.

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Photon Master wrote:
Guy loves to hunt and wants to take me out “spotting deer*.

Huh… I thought they already came with spots.

Wonder how you get ‘em to stay still long enough…

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Photon Master
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Reminds me of the Beavis and Butthead episode where the dude was bench pressing and asked them to “spot him.” And they were like “uhh… there you are. Uh huh huh” (pointing at him)

https://youtu.be/URhCHu5ku1U

(Good stuff at 2 minutes)

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Careful, spotlighting deer is illegal in a lot of states.
All the Best,
Jeff

Photon Master
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Thanks Jeff, I did not know that as a matter of fact. He said where he lives in hillbilly land it’s allowed. I should probably confirm that (:

how crazy is this
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Haven’t hunted in decades now but it used to be that you couldn’t shine deer in our hillbilly area for a certain period around hunting season. The current law is that you can’t do it after 10 PM starting today until the end of the year. From Jan to now it is fine. Now that I am in the city I occasionally have shined fox to move them away from my dogs. Have no idea if that is actually legal or not.

Rexlion
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Think back to late winter and early spring. In the US, as I recall, action was taken in Feb. to limit incoming passengers from certain countries. By mid-March we entered into a full-blown shutdown, with people staying home and only going out if necessary. This lasted through April. Yet by mid May the US allegedly had been the site of 1/4 of all the Covid deaths worldwide even though the US has less than 5% of the world’s population. This just doesn’t make sense. Any rational thinker should be able to see that it doesn’t add up, that something’s wrong with this scenario.

If the US population had gone its merry way, with no shutdown and no precautions, I could understand folks saying that the high number of deaths attributed to Covid in the US was due to our careless attitudes. But we did take precautions. Almost all nonessential businesses shut down for more than a month, people became careful, etc. Even most of those who argued against shutdown and masks were actually participating (while they groused). Meanwhile, Sweden didn’t shut down and took much less drastic precautions, yet they didn’t fare any worse than the US during spring.

I can’t pin down with absolute proof that the high US mortality was due to this, that, or the other thing. But I am reasonably confident that it wasn’t due to incompetent mismanagement on our part. What relative mismanagment there may have been was not of such magnitude that it could logically make such a humongous difference. So it seems obvious to me that the reason (or combination of reasons) must include some shenanigans on someone’s part. And again, no one can prove with certainty the who or the why. But most definitely and obviously, something about the situation stinks to high heaven. Somehow, we’ve ‘been had,’ because without some person or persons pulling a ‘fast one’ there should be no way whatsoever for 5% of the people, while huddling in their homes listening to the drumbeat of Covid fear in March and April, to suffer 25% of the casualties. It belies common sense and reason.

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About vaccines —- as an example, many of us got the first shingles vaccine when it came out. It gave moderate protection but far from complete protection.
A few years later, a new and much more protective vaccine came out and there are long waiting lists for it as it’s scarce.

There are a lot of different coronavirus vaccines being brought forward. With adequate recordkeeping we’ll eventually know which ones are moderately protective and which ones are good enough to merit a second round of vaccinations to get better coverage.

It’s a great experiment that will involve hundreds of thousands of people over a long span of time.

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Quote:
Excerpt:

Below is a breakdown of how much funding per COVID-19 case each state will receive from the first $30 billion in aid. Kaiser Health News used a state breakdown provided to the House Ways and Means Committee by HHS along with COVID-19 cases tabulated by The New York Times for its analysis.

Federal aid per COVID-19 case

Rexlion
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“A great experiment,” all right, and I decline to be the guinea pig. Smile

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/health/restaurant-dining-covid-19-cdc-stu...

[quote]

There were no significant differences between those who tested positive versus negative when it came to shopping, gathering with fewer than 10 people in a home, going to an office, going to a gym, going to a salon, using public transportation or attending religious gatherings, according to the study.
However, people who tested positive, the data showed, were more likely to have reported dining at a restaurant in the two weeks before they started to feel sick.

The study comes with some limitations ….

hank
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And here’s the problem:

Quote:

Maine wedding ‘superspreader’ event now linked to seven deaths. None of those people were at the event.
Maine’s CDC director said the spread of the virus beyond those who attended the wedding is an indication of “how virulent the disease can be and how far-reaching the effects can be.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Deputy Dog
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Rexlion

Quote:
Yet by mid May the US allegedly had been the site of 1/4 of all the Covid deaths worldwide even though the US has less than 5% of the world’s population. This just doesn’t make sense. Any rational thinker should be able to see that it doesn’t add up, that something’s wrong with this scenario.

I don’t know where you’re getting that. Many deaths in other parts of the world were Covid deaths. They were simply never tested or confirmed. Covid confirmed deaths does NOT equal ALL Covid deaths.

I’m convinced that most of the world had been infected before they knew what hit them and attributed most of the deaths to flu and other diseases.

That’s the problem, more testing = more CONFIRMED cases.

kennybobby
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Rexlion wrote:
Think back to late winter and early spring. … Meanwhile, Sweden didn’t shut down and took much less drastic precautions, yet they didn’t fare any worse than the US during spring.

Sweden’s average is 6.6% and US is 2.9%, ratio of deaths to total cases.

Sweden’s population is 10.1M and US is 331.4 Million people.

Sweden provides free health care for all; in US it’s everyman for himself, good luck if you are poor and can’t afford it or don’t have a job with medical insurance benefits.

[rant mode]
The Social Security Administration was intended to provide a basic income for the elders who had worked their whole life and grew old, but now had no job, no pension, no income. This came about after the economic effects of the pandemic of 1918-1920 caused a spiraling downturn into the great depression of 1930. At that time those in charge decided that society should provide some funds to help the old folks.

The question for today is what kind of society does the US want? Do we want to upgrade to the basic medical care standard of living enjoyed by the rest of the developed world, or continue in the dog-eat-dog Lord of the Flies lifestyle of the rich and famous?
[/rant]

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MascaratumB
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Deputy Dog wrote:
That’s the problem, more testing = more CONFIRMED cases.

No, no problem at all with more testing!

More tests equals to:
- more possibility to diagnose cases (symptomatic or not), which leads to…
- more possibility to avoid contaminations in several places (schools, nursing homes, sports clubs, enterprises, …you name it), and…
- more possibility to refrain the virus from spreading to groups of risk, what means…
- more possibility to avoid deaths, internments in the ICU and health systems overcharge, and, last but not least,
- more possibilities to “reopen” or “resume” economy, society, culture, sports, and life in general in a more safe and “fearless” way.

So please stop the idea that testing more is no good! The big numbers are only bad in case the countries’ leaderships are incapable of being transparent to the citizens, are incapable of providing healtchare and conditions, or are just…incapable.

I feared about my country’s national healtcare system, which has been fragile for a while, but it adapted to the situation even with difficulties and losses, the citizens complied with the norms to prevent more spreading, and since March 1800 died in a 10 million people country.

———————

To all:
- stay safe,
- stay healthy (mentally and physically),
- don’t go crazy,
- go out and get some sunshine if possible,
- keep the social distancing,
- wash your hands, specially before taking some boogers from the nose, or taking a piece of food from the teeth,
- don’t be a selfish moron and think only about your “freedom”, ‘cause the others also have it, and…
- use a F**KING MASK whenever you want, whenever it is demanded, and whenever the context doesn’t provide enough breathing safety for you and for others!!!

That way…you’ll/ we’ll all be able to stop complaining about this situation,‘cause the spreading will decrease and with it all the “fears”, “hoaxes”, “fake news”, and whatever you want to complain about…

Beer

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pennzy
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Atlanta — Georgia’s governor, who has opposed local mask mandates and even sued over one in Atlanta, has signed a new executive order that allows local governments to enact mask requirements to help fight the coronavirus pandemic

This is one reason why American deaths are at a higher rate than others. Without a national coherent approach to stopping the spread it was like having a peeing section in a public pool.

NorthernHarrier
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Anyone surprised at the numbers in the USA infected with Covid-19 or dead is not informed about what has been going on since the virus came to this country. No serious actions were taken by the federal government until too late to stop the spread. Experts are telling us that we could have saved a majority of the people who have died if federal action had been taken just a few weeks earlier than it was taken.

But the federal government actions taken were woefully inadequate. There was never a full border shutdown for travelers from China or anywhere else, and the partial restrictions on travelers from Europe didn’t start until many people had already come in on flights from Europe and spread the virus all over the eastern seaboard.

In addition, there was never a full shutdown of businesses and people gathering without social distancing and masking. Many people were mingling in homes and at outdoor events, going to churches en masse, and going to political rallies protesting the restrictions without masking and maintaining social distancing. Many people were going to work in crowded factories/meat packing plants/etc.

Testing has always been far less than necessary to know who is infected, and contact tracing has been only done on a limited basis in certain locations – not the national program needed to find out where the virus is and isolate those people who are infected. There was no national standardization of testing – so the states all do testing differently, making interpretation of the data and policy planning difficult. There are still many locations without adequate testing for all who need testing because they are sick.

We now are learning that data on infections and deaths are being suppressed by the federal and state governments for political reasons – making effective prevention and contact tracing even more impossible. Once a “recovery plan” was issued by the federal government, the highest officials in the country immediately began telling state governments to ignore it and relax their restrictions. And many states and local governments did that, and opened while the infection rates were still high and not declining. And federal officials were setting an example of not wearing masks and not social distancing – and the public followed their example.

There is no mystery about why so many have been infected and so many are dead in the USA.

Deputy Dog
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MascaratumB wrote:
Deputy Dog wrote:
That’s the problem, more testing = more CONFIRMED cases.

No, no problem at all with more testing!

More tests equals to:
- more possibility to diagnose cases (symptomatic or not), which leads to…
- more possibility to avoid contaminations in several places (schools, nursing homes, sports clubs, enterprises, …you name it), and…
- more possibility to refrain the virus from spreading to groups of risk, what means…
- more possibility to avoid deaths, internments in the ICU and health systems overcharge, and, last but not least,
- more possibilities to “reopen” or “resume” economy, society, culture, sports, and life in general in a more safe and “fearless” way.

So please stop the idea that testing more is no good! The big numbers are only bad in case the countries’ leaderships are incapable of being transparent to the citizens, are incapable of providing healtchare and conditions, or are just…incapable.

I feared about my country’s national healtcare system, which has been fragile for a while, but it adapted to the situation even with difficulties and losses, the citizens complied with the norms to prevent more spreading, and since March 1800 died in a 10 million people country.

———————

To all:
- stay safe,
- stay healthy (mentally and physically),
- don’t go crazy,
- go out and get some sunshine if possible,
- keep the social distancing,
- wash your hands, specially before taking some boogers from the nose, or taking a piece of food from the teeth,
- don’t be a selfish moron and think only about your “freedom”, ‘cause the others also have it, and…
- use a F**KING MASK whenever you want, whenever it is demanded, and whenever the context doesn’t provide enough breathing safety for you and for others!!!

That way…you’ll/ we’ll all be able to stop complaining about this situation,‘cause the spreading will decrease and with it all the “fears”, “hoaxes”, “fake news”, and whatever you want to complain about…

Beer

I never said: that testing is a bad thing. I’m saying just the opposite. Testing is good for treatment, but it’s not always the best indication of actual facts when making comparisons, because it’s not complete and it differs from place to place, country to country. If you think I’m saying to people not to get tested then maybe you’ve had one to many Beer Smile

Deputy Dog
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NorthernHarrier wrote:
Anyone surprised at the numbers in the USA infected with Covid-19 or dead is not informed about what has been going on since the virus came to this country. No serious actions were taken by the federal government until too late to stop the spread. Experts are telling us that we could have saved a majority of the people who have died if federal action had been taken just a few weeks earlier than it was taken.

But the federal government actions taken were woefully inadequate. There was never a full border shutdown for travelers from China or anywhere else, and the partial restrictions on travelers from Europe didn’t start until many people had already come in on flights from Europe and spread the virus all over the eastern seaboard.

In addition, there was never a full shutdown or businesses and people gathering without social distancing and masking. Many people were mingling in homes and at outdoor events, going to churches en masse, and going to political rallies protesting the restrictions without masking and maintaining social distancing. Many people were going to work in crowded factories/meat packing plants/etc.

Testing has always been far less than necessary to know who is infected, and contract tracing has been only done on a limited basis in certain locations – not the national program needed to find out where the virus is and isolate those people who are infected. There was no national standardization of testing – so the states all do testing differently, making interpretation of the data and policy planning difficult. There are still many locations without adequate testing for all who need testing.

We now are learning that data on infections and deaths are being suppressed by the federal and state governments for political reasons – making effective prevention and contact tracing even more impossible. Once a “recovery plan” was issued by the federal government, the highest officials in the country immediately began telling state governments to ignore it and relax their restrictions. And many states and local governments did that, and opened while the infection rates were still high and not declining. And federal officials were setting an example of not wearing masks and not social distancing – and the public followed their example.

There is no mystery about why so many have been infected and so many are dead in the USA.

I think it’s fair to say data is being manipulated both ways for political reasons. Suppressed in some areas and exaggerated in others.

Photon Master
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Where I live (USA), no one wears masks pretty much and there are huge crowds of people everywhere I go. The gym has a sign that you have to wear a mask but everyone takes theirs off as soon as they scan their membership card. Restaurants make you wear one when you’re walking around (like you go take a squirt) but not when you’re sitting at your table. All the stores are open, people walking around in parks and kids playing in playgrounds. You’d never even know there was a virus based on how things are here

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Deputy Dog wrote:

I think it’s fair to say data is being manipulated both ways for political reasons. Suppressed in some areas and exaggerated in others.

Bolding added by me.

Huh? Do you really believe medical personnel would submit false patient reports and disease statistics? Unethical and likely a felony—that they would take that risk for politics?

Over 1,000 doctors and other medical workers have died after contracting the disease while trying to help save patients. Do you realize how much time, money and education is required to make a doctor? That is a person who provides an essential service and resource in society that is not easily or quickly replaced.

i just hope to catch a big ol’ dose of whatever is needed to get that herd mentality so i won’t get too sick and die.

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how crazy is this
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Rexlion wrote:
Think back to late winter and early spring. In the US, as I recall, action was taken in Feb. to limit incoming passengers from certain countries. By mid-March we entered into a full-blown shutdown, with people staying home and only going out if necessary. This lasted through April. Yet by mid May the US allegedly had been the site of 1/4 of all the Covid deaths worldwide even though the US has less than 5% of the world’s population. This just doesn’t make sense. Any rational thinker should be able to see that it doesn’t add up, that something’s wrong with this scenario.

A rational thinker would look at where deaths were high vs where they were low. A rational thinker would realize that with a virus with a high r sub 0 value the limited travel restrictions put in place that late in the game were not enough to allow for containment. Some places did shutdowns. Some places were overwhelmed and others not so much.

Some countries actually have good leadership. A rational thinker would consider that several countries suffered far less than places like the US, Italy, UK, and Sweden. What did it take to achieve such a significant reduction in suffering? A rational thinker would understand that actions that need to be taken simply were not taken everywhere. Countries that took those actions had predictable and repeatable results. Places like the US that did not take those actions also have predictable and repeatable results.

We can argue the actual numbers all day. Mass graves and overwhelmed health care systems happened repeatedly all over the world. Countries that took the proper actions in a timely manner predictably and repeatedly did not see such a dramatic rise in death or have their healthcare systems overwhelmed.

Deputy Dog
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kennybobby wrote:
Deputy Dog wrote:

I think it’s fair to say data is being manipulated both ways for political reasons. Suppressed in some areas and exaggerated in others.

Bolding added by me.

Huh? Do you really believe medical personnel would submit false patient reports and disease statistics? Unethical and likely a felony—that they would take that risk for politics?

Over 1,000 doctors and other medical workers have died after contracting the disease while trying to help save patients. Do you realize how much time, money and education is required to make a doctor? That is a person who provides an essential service and resource in society that is not easily or quickly replaced.

i just hope to catch a big ol’ dose of whatever is needed to get that herd mentality so i won’t get too sick and die.

Are you suggesting that it is the front line doctors and nurses who are the only ones who have access to that kind of data? To answer your question, as someone who has investigated a few crimes in my day, YES data is being manipulated by somebody. Likely many somebodies.

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I can happily report that today when visiting a fairly large Farm Market the amount of people wearing masks was really impressive, would guess 70% including quite a few with Trump keep America great masks on.
Place was busy.

This same market 6 weeks ago was bad, like 30% masked.
So something changed, believe the messaging is getting through and people are realizing the life you save may be your own.
A lot less negativity also but that may be due to the absolutely beautiful weather, high 72 low humidity and nice breeze.
People were buying too, instead of just walking around feeding their faces.

Anyway looks like Big Ten Football is coming back because of those rapid tests that the NBA helped develop, it really a a game changer on all levels.

All for now, everyone stay safe and carry on!
Keith

“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes,” Mark Twain

After the Apocalypse there will be only 2 things left alive, Cockroaches and Keith Richards

“You’ll develop like a herd mentality,”
“It’s gonna be herd-developed and that’s gonna happen.”

Yep it already happened

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kennybobby wrote:

Huh? Do you really believe medical personnel would submit false patient reports and disease statistics? Unethical and likely a felony—that they would take that risk for politics?

I don’t know if this number is correct but I heard that every hospital will receive 13,000 for admitting a patient with corona. And they will get 3×13000 if they put a patient on a ventilator. So maybe that’s why there was so much demand for ventilators? I don’t know but there is no straight way to make 6 digits income running a health care facility?

Yes 99% Yes, they will do it all day long. You area right there are special people who go into medicine. I am not disagreeing with you.
I also think that you need to take into consideration that medical personnel is working in a for profit setting. Their boss only cares that the bills are paid. He or she will give you a choice, do what I tell you or go home . There is so much medical fraud going on.

There are so many Doctors on a Most Wanted Fugitive List. Why? because everyone is doing it and it is easy money. And chances you will get caught are very low.

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Deputy Dog wrote:
kennybobby wrote:
Deputy Dog wrote:

I think it’s fair to say data is being manipulated both ways for political reasons. Suppressed in some areas and exaggerated in others.

Bolding added by me.

Huh? Do you really believe medical personnel would submit false patient reports and disease statistics? Unethical and likely a felony—that they would take that risk for politics?

Over 1,000 doctors and other medical workers have died after contracting the disease while trying to help save patients. Do you realize how much time, money and education is required to make a doctor? That is a person who provides an essential service and resource in society that is not easily or quickly replaced.

i just hope to catch a big ol’ dose of whatever is needed to get that herd mentality so i won’t get too sick and die.

Are you suggesting that it is the front line doctors and nurses who are the only ones who have access to that kind of data? To answer your question, as someone who has investigated a few crimes in my day, YES data is being manipulated by somebody. Likely many somebodies.

I think your claim about “exaggerating” counts might be more believable to some of us if you could provide us with actual examples of government entities or hospitals (those who actually produce the figures used in epidemiological predictions) exaggerating the true count. I’m not saying it never happened, I’m just inviting you to support that claim by citing actual examples of it happening.

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caramba wrote:
kennybobby wrote:

Huh? Do you really believe medical personnel would submit false patient reports and disease statistics? Unethical and likely a felony—that they would take that risk for politics?

I don’t know if this number is correct but I heard that every hospital will receive 13,000 for admitting a patient with corona. And they will get 3×13000 if they put a patient on a ventilator. So maybe that’s why there was so much demand for ventilators? I don’t know but there is no straight way to make 6 digits income running a health care facility?

Yes 99% Yes, they will do it all day long. You area right there are special people who go into medicine. I am not disagreeing with you.
I also think that you need to take into consideration that medical personnel is working in a for profit setting. Their boss only cares that the bills are paid. He or she will give you a choice, do what I tell you or go home . There is so much medical fraud going on.

There are so many Doctors on a Most Wanted Fugitive List. Why? because everyone is doing it and it is easy money. And chances you will get caught are very low.

There is no evidence to support that rumor. The rumor was spread on social media after Scott Jensen, a Minnesota state legislator, discussed medicare payments to hospitals for treating Covid-19 patients on Fox News. But during the interview Jensen explained that, while Medicare had begun paying hospitals for treating Covid-19 patients, there are no payments to hospitals at all simply for classifying a patient as having the virus. And there are no financial incentives for classifying a death as due to Covid-19, when it was not.

In addition, Jensen admitted during the interview that there is no evidence that any hospitals or doctors had submitted fraudulent billing to Medicare claiming that a patient had Covid-19 when in fact they did not, and no evidence that any hospitals or doctors had treated any patients for Covid-19 when they knew the patient was not infected with the virus. To this day, I have not seen any such evidence, either.

I find it difficult to understand why people get their kicks promoting totally unsupported conspiracy theories impugning the character of people working in dangerous conditions or in thankless government jobs during an emergency, trying to help people and earn a living like anyone else. Promoting false information about serious subjects can hurt people, and in this pandemic it already has.

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